I didn't say, what you claim,,, I didn't say you cannot know without seeing,,,, what I said, is I saw it, and lived it, and what you said,, that "we destroyed their country through imperialist action" is not true,, it is a lie,,,
Here is the history of Iraq, and Afghanistan, the lead up to the war, and what happened.. to fight there I had to know a lot about them. As well, I flew around the countries with translators and other troops, and first hand got to know the people all the places and the history..
Now you read,,, if you truly want the truth..
1948 Iraq and other Arab countries launch an unsuccessful war against Israel, which had declared statehood that year.
1958 A military coup overthrows the monarchy, kills King Faisal II, and declares Iraq a republic. General Abdul Karim Kassem becomes Iraq's leader, and begins reversing the monarchy's pro-western policies
1961 The Kurds, located in northern Iraq, revolt and demand autonomy; fighting between the Kurds and the government continues for decades.
1963 Kassem is killed in a coup led Colonel Abd al-Salam Aref and the military as well as members of the Ba'ath party (Feb. 8). The Ba'ath party, founded in Syria, advocates pan-Arabism, secularism, and socialism. Colonel Aref becomes president, Ahmed Hasan al-Bakr of the Ba'ath Party becomes president.
Aref purges the government of Ba'ath party, including President al-Bakr.
1966 Aref dies; his brother, Abdul Rahman Aref, takes over the presidency
1968 Ahmad Hasan al-Bakr overthrows Aref in a bloodless coup. The Ba'ath party again dominates
1970 A peace agreement is signed between the Iraqi government and the Kurds, granting the Kurds some self-rule
1973 Iraq fights in the Arab-Israeli War (The Yom Kippur War) and participates in the oil boycott against Israel's supporters.
1975 Fighting again breaks out with the Kurds, who call for their independence.
1979 Al-Bakr resigns; his vice-president, Saddam Hussein, succeeds him. Hussein swiftly executes political rivals.
1980 The bloody eight-year Iran-Iraq war begins. The main issue is control of the Shatt al Arab waterway, an essential resource providing for water and transportation that runs along the border of both countries
1988 Iraq retaliates against the Kurds for supporting Iran during the Iran-Iraq war, and through "Operation Anfal" slaughters civilians or forces them to relocate. Thousands flee to Turkey.
Iran-Iraq war ends in a stalemate. An estimated 1.5 million died in the conflict .
1990 Iraqi troops invade Kuwait. Saddam Hussein justifies the attack by blaming Kuwait for falling oil prices that harm the Iraqi economy .
The UN imposes economic sanctions on Iraq .
U.S. military forces arrive in Saudi Arabia .
The UN issues a Security Council resolution setting Jan. 15, 1991, as the deadline for Iraq's withdrawal from Kuwait, authorizing the use of "all necessary means" if it does not comply .
1991 The Persian Gulf War begins when Operation Desert Storm launched by a U.S.-led coalition of 32 countries under the leadership of U.S. Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf. A campaign of air strikes against Iraq begins . Ground forces invade Kuwait and Iraq, vanquish the Iraqi army, and liberate Kuwait. President George H. W. Bush declares a cease-fire on the fourth day. Shiites and Kurds rebel, encouraged by the United States. Iraq quashes the rebellions, killing thousands.
Formal cease-fire is signed. Saddam Hussein accepts UN resolution agreeing to destroy weapons of mass destruction and allowing UN inspectors to monitor the disarmament.
A no-fly zone is established in Northern Iraq to protect the Kurds from Saddam Hussein.
UN weapons inspectors report that Iraq has concealed much of its nuclear and chemical weapons programs. It is the first of many such reports over the next decade, pointing out Iraq's thwarting of the UN weapons inspectors.
1992 A southern no-fly zone is created to protect the Shiite population from Saddam Hussein and provide a buffer between Kuwait and Iraq. U.S. launches cruise missile on Baghdad, after Iraq attempts to assassinate President George H. W. Bush while he visited Kuwait.
1994 Iraq drains water from southern marshlands inhabited Muslim Shiites, in retaliation for the Shiites' long-standing opposition to Saddam Hussein's government.
1996 The UN Security Council's "oil-for-food" resolution (passed April 1995) allows Iraq to export oil in exchange for humanitarian aid. Iraq delays accepting the terms for more than a 1½ years.
1997 The UN disarmament commission concludes that Iraq has continued to conceal information on biological and chemical weapons and missiles.
Iraq expels American members of the UN inspection team in defiance of the un and its resolution as well as Iraqi agreements.
1998 Iraq suspends all cooperation with the UN inspectors. UN secretary-general Kofi Annan brokers a peaceful solution to the standoff. Over the next months Baghdad continued to impede the UN inspection team, demanding that sanctions be lifted.
Saddam Hussein puts a complete halt to the inspections.
Iraq agrees to unconditional cooperation with the UN inspectors, but by a month later, chief UN weapons inspector Richard Butler reports that Iraq has not lived up to its promise.
The United States and Britain began four days of intensive air strikes, dubbed Operation Desert Fox. The attacks focused on command centers, missile factories, and airfieldstargets that the Pentagon believed would damage Iraq's weapons stores.
1999 Beginning in January, weekly, sometimes daily, bombings of Iraqi targets within the northern no-fly zone begin, carried out by U.S. and British bombers. More than 100 air strikes take place during 1999, and continue regularly over the next years. The U.S. and Britain hope the constant barrage of air strikes will weaken Saddam Hussein's grip on Iraq.
AFGHANISTAN:
1960s in the aftermath of a devasting drought, the country rebels against its king, and becomes a Marxist puppet to Russia,,
1970s After much back and forth, Russia invades and crushes the country, with US backing the mujahadein drives out the Russians,,,, the country is fractionated and the Taliban arises from Pakistan and pashtun tribes,,, and takes over almost all the country,,, they are backed by an up an coming terrorist organization named Al Queda,,,,
The Taliban destroys the great buddas in Bamian, as it eradicates all other religions, kills women and children, and forces the northern alliance to reemerge, Massoud the charismatic leader is successful in driving them back and uniting the tribes of the Northern alliance
Sept 11 2001
Al Queda sponsors the attacks on the us, and Taliban assasins kill Massoud, America enters the war, and is welcomed by the provincial govt
. the Taliban is crushed and driven into Pakistan,,,,
The devastation of the Russian wars was horrific,,, entire towns destroyed, rivers dried up and gone, great forests burned and gone,,, wrecked aircraft everywhere, and a destroyed people who could not even read their own languages.
America builds their infrastructure, sends state department, and USDA reps to teach them to get water, farms and survive.
Schools are opened and women are introduced to education.
The war is being won. Obama gets elected,,, and the effort collapses,,, the us death toll goes up three fold, Taliban resurges after Gen McChrystal is fired, and the war effort stalls,,,
Last week, in the great government University that the coalition,, (mainly US) built, a general was shot, and killed,,,
Sept 11 2001
In Iraq
Sadaam continues to defy un sanctions and attacks kurds with chem. Weapons,,, the un issues an ultimatum urged by the us,,, to reveal the WMDs or be invaded,,, because a Nuclear or WMD capable Iraq cannot be allowed behind the us forces in Afghanistan
.. sadaam falls in a record 30 days
.. voting begins, womens rights,,, and obama gets elected and pulls out the muscle. The sunni, under ISIS attack the shia and kurds,,, and then capture the NON EXISTENT chemical weapons factories, dumps, and delivery systems
You were aghast that IBM helped the Nazis,,, but the grand Mufdi,,, travelled to Nazi germany, was impressed with hitlers hatred of the jews, and brought back the ideology of jewish extermination, which he even gave hitler some good pointers on,,,,, his movement became the Bathists
. Of which the most famous you know as Sadaam Hussein,,,, he was a nazi,,,,
Where in all that was the peace???
[quote=Opal12]
Ve'hoe wrote:
And if you cant write, read, or think without telling the truth then please dont waste our time.
You waste our time when you refuse to learn the truth, and as yet, have not been willing to compromise on anything or any belief you hold, even when shown the fallicy of your beleifs...
why do you insist that others compromise when you are unwilling even in the face of firsthand witness and archived factual data?
.........................................................
Ve'Hoe you have not yet answered my question, did you ever visit either Iraq or Iran in the '60s an '70s?
You do not debate by yelling your opinions. I know you said you were there, but was it before of after we destroyed everything?
War is a terrible solution but you say all the bad things S.H. did were prior to the war. Did you see it with your own eyes?
I ask this question because according to you ONLY what you witness is true. Consequently, answer my question or stop posting attacks against my opinions. I could follow your same tactic and say that you are lying but that means 0(zero) in a debate.
And if you cant write, read, or think without tell... (
show quote)