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Can Americans Handle Democracy?
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Jan 24, 2024 12:21:08   #
Radar OReilly
 
facts matter wrote:
So, do you think trump and maga will be keeping us safe by backing away from helping Ukraine fight Russian aggression or cozying up to despots or saying the US will not come to Europe's aid if Russia invades, or protect Taiwan from China?


Those are good questions. Looking forward to hear how some here answer

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Jan 24, 2024 13:41:05   #
nonalien1 Loc: Mojave Desert
 
microphor wrote:
If he doesn't close border and allows anyone to cross into the US without proper vetting, yes he is knowingly allowing terrorist to cross into the US.


The border is considered open when anyone can cross without fear of arrest. A closed border is when you can only enter at designated entry points after showing ID if requested so they know who is entering the country.
Code1324 (a)1(I) transporting
Code 1324(a)1 (III) harboring
Code1324(a)1(iv) encouraging
Transporting is after they have crossed. Maximum penalties are a fine and 5 years in federal prison
Each alien is a separate charge.
I'm not afraid just less safe. That applies to everyone . Especially border states residents. I see plenty of illegal aliens daily. If you think a quarter million aliens a month coming across our borders isn't an invasion you are deluded. Over three hundred caught that were on the terrorist watch list. How many 'got aways' do you think might be terrorists? Biden didn't start illegal immigration but he is responsible for the increase. And America don't need the added burden of care and housing of these people who willingly broke the law to get here. By the way Straight , did you come here legally? How does it make you feel.

Reply
Jan 24, 2024 13:41:27   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
pescado rojo wrote:
Speaking of an understanding of the English language, you capitalize a noun that is being used in the context of a proper noun. I understand Progressives have problems with this sort of thing.

LOL - a noun is either proper or it isn't. If it's a reference to a specific person or group like Biden or the Democrats then you capitalize. If it's a reference to a concept like democracy then you don't. (used in the context of a proper noun - lol) - no wonder you folks get so confused. I'd love to see you explain that one.

pescado rojo wrote:

As for your definition of a democracy, ( notice by use of "a" I demoted it from proper noun)

All the determinant "a" does is make the reference non-specific as opposed to a specific reference such as "the democracy in Japan". It's still a concept and not an actual organization. Japan's democracy doesn't have a phone number or an address or a title or any of the things that would make it an organization.

Think about it genius... If what you said was true we would have to capitalize EVERYTHING preceded with "the"... There's a problem with the Brakes... Can you pass the Potatoes... Did you get rid of the Junk?

Anyway, thanks for the giggle.

pescado rojo wrote:

you forgot to mention the rest of the definition that seemingly does not fit your agenda.
b(1)
: a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law.
Merriam--Webster, same place you got yours.

I see where your confusion is... You apparently don't understand how to use a dictionary. The "b" at the start of what you are calling the "rest of the definition" denotes a second example. Words can sometimes have more than two meanings or sometimes a dictionary will offer multiple examples of a meaning that applies to many things and they will enumerate them with lower-case letters.

Here's the the whole entry taken from Merriam-Webster...
a
: government by the people
especially : rule of the majority
b
: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

Just so you know, "b" doesn't negate "a".

Even in the second iteration, you seem to miss the fact that is says "directly OR indirectly".

What really makes this funny is that in this discussion where your side is insisting that the presence of representatives makes it a republic and NOT a democracy, you come along with a definition that actually includes representatives as part of a democracy.

It's like all I have to do is duck out of the way and let you hillbillies shoot each other.

pescado rojo wrote:

Now for your own history lesson, a republic (notice that pesky "a" again? Now, had I said The Republic, that would have been a proper noun)

No, it wouldn't... if you were to say, "The United States of America" - THAT would be a proper noun; by referring to "the" republic you are still referring to a concept, even though it's a specific reference. This is why we still write things like "yes, you can take the car today" instead of "yes, you can take the Car today." But carry on...

pescado rojo wrote:

is a democratic form of government in which the citizens of said political entity elect representatives, mouthpieces, if you will, to represent their interests withing the confines of a constitution or set of rules of some sort.

First of all, you are literally confirming that a republic is a democratic form of government. That actually does make it a democracy AND a republic, not just one or the other. So, I don't know if you realize this or not but you are actually supporting my argument.

Secondly, my definition of a republic being any form of government that isn't a monarchy is a simplified definition. I often reference the simplest definition as a common denominator to simplify my arguments. The fact is not every republic in history had the same level of democracy or limits on power but the common denominator is that they NEVER had a monarch. This was the focus for republicans like Jefferson (note the lower case - the Republican Party hadn't been created yet.) Jefferson was well aware that the British already had a representative democracy in the form of a parliament and that wasn't the thing he wanted to change. What he wanted to change was the head of state, not so much the form of government. He preferred the idea of a republic that would elect a president as the head of state rather than a king.

But, if you want to expand the definition, I would agree that most republics today are indeed democratic forms of government with limits on power.

Now, getting back to the topic... When you hear people on the left talking about the threat to democracy, they are not necessarily suggesting that democracy will disappear entirely. They are more likely referring to a degradation of democracy that will affect our representation.

pescado rojo wrote:

In a direct type of a democracy, we would have to be our own representatives.

That's true. Instead, we have representatives that vote on the issues on our behalf. That doesn't mean it's not a democracy, it simply means it's a representative democracy, although I would argue that such representation degrades when representatives are too busy fighting with each other to actually vote on ANY issues.

One thing I want to point out that people somehow forget. When we elect our representatives that *IS* a direct democracy.

pescado rojo wrote:

I hope I didn't use too many big words.

Are you worried you might screw up if you do?

Reply
 
 
Jan 24, 2024 13:51:20   #
facts matter
 
nonalien1 wrote:
The border is considered open when anyone can cross without fear of arrest. A closed border is when you can only enter at designated entry points after showing ID if requested so they know who is entering the country.
Code1324 (a)1(I) transporting
Code 1324(a)1 (III) harboring
Code1324(a)1(iv) encouraging
Transporting is after they have crossed. Maximum penalties are a fine and 5 years in federal prison
Each alien is a separate charge.
I'm not afraid just less safe. That applies to everyone . Especially border states residents. I see plenty of illegal aliens daily. If you think a quarter million aliens a month coming across our borders isn't an invasion you are deluded. Over three hundred caught that were on the terrorist watch list. How many 'got aways' do you think might be terrorists? Biden didn't start illegal immigration but he is responsible for the increase. And America don't need the added burden of care and housing of these people who willingly broke the law to get here. By the way Straight , did you come here legally? How does it make you feel.
The border is considered open when anyone can cros... (show quote)


Biden and Speaker Johnson have agreed on an immigration bill. Let's see if it passes.

Reply
Jan 24, 2024 14:11:07   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
microphor wrote:
That is absolutely not true.

You're entitled to your opinion.

microphor wrote:

People are being allowed into this country with no proof of who they are, no picture ID. Some may have papers but that doesn't mean the papers are real or even belong to the person carrying them. These people are boarding our planes without proper ID, but I can't, my child can't. Do you not know these things.

I know that 3 weeks ago, I lost my wallet on a Delta flight to Oakland, CA and that when I had to board a plane back to Philadelphia it was still missing. I was taken aside by the TSA officers and interviewed. It took about 15 minutes but they let me board... without an ID. Last week, Delta found my wallet and mailed it to me, so it all ended happily but that's a first hand example, proving your statement incorrect. Yes, you and your kid CAN board a plane without an ID, you just have to be vetted.

There are a lot of refugees who are literally running for their lives from really messed up places. It's idiotic to assume they can always just walk down to the office to get proper ID.

"Ah, do you have an ID?"
"No, it was lost when my house was bombed."
"Well, why didn't you replace it?"
"We didn't have time, the narco-terrorists were killing everyone. We had to get out."
"Oh, well, you have to have ID. I can't help you. The system won't let me."

You folks never think about that do you? Are you just that ignorant or do you just not care?

microphor wrote:

Look them up, that's one of the reasons ICE wants to issue these special ID's as CNN reported "ICE is developing new ID card for migrants amid growing arrivals at the border".

Great idea.

microphor wrote:

Even if they did all have ID's, how could you process thousands of arrivals a day and verify thier identity?

Ask the TSA they do it all the time. So do the workers at election booths. Honestly, I don't see the problem. Hire people. We need the jobs anyway.

Seems to me like your trying really hard to come up with excuses.

Reply
Jan 24, 2024 14:54:27   #
microphor Loc: Home is TN
 
facts matter wrote:
So, do you think trump and maga will be keeping us safe by backing away from helping Ukraine fight Russian aggression or cozying up to despots or saying the US will not come to Europe's aid if Russia invades, or protect Taiwan from China?


So has Trump ever said these things or are you just making them up as you go. Was any of your "concerns" going on during his first administration? You'll have to ask good old Bill how much Putin pays to cozy up, think they paid him a half a million.

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Jan 24, 2024 14:59:44   #
microphor Loc: Home is TN
 
straightUp wrote:
Ask the TSA they do it all the time. So do the workers at election booths. Honestly, I don't see the problem. Hire people. We need the jobs anyway.

Seems to me like your trying really hard to come up with excuses.


Wonder if the fact they can pull your ID up from the state it was issued in, has anything to do with them letting you board. What are the odds that we can do that with the illegal immigrants from 150+ other countries? I didn't have my insurance card when in accident, cop took my info, contacted insurer and they confirmed I had insurance, same thing they can do to confirm my ID at DMV.

It's not the same and you are just trying to justify these millions of invaders Joe invited in.

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Jan 24, 2024 15:09:00   #
microphor Loc: Home is TN
 
straightUp wrote:
Ask the TSA they do it all the time. So do the workers at election booths. Honestly, I don't see the problem. Hire people. We need the jobs anyway.

Seems to me like your trying really hard to come up with excuses.


TSA already has the people in their system and flights booked. They still ask for ID before you're cleared to enter boarding areas. Are you dense or just playing that way.

Reply
Jan 24, 2024 19:29:45   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Rose42 wrote:
Its got nothing to do with people not voting

That would be complacency. I'm not the one who made that assertion, that was someone else. I responded, pretty much with what you just said... I said complacency might hurt your best interest or your party's agenda but it won't actually hurt democracy.

A person who doesn't vote, simply doesn't get counted.

Rose42 wrote:

and nothing you’re saying hasn’t been brought up before.

You've hinted at this a few times in recent responses to my posts... what is it that you're getting at? As far as I am concerned, I am just using common sense, so if you think I have some delusion of novelty, think again. It's only exotic in the broom closet of John Galt Fantasyland.

Rose42 wrote:

Numerous people have posted about the unwillingness to compromise and other things you’ve mentioned.

Yeah... again, it's common sense. I made it a main topic because despite that people may have mentioned it before, there are still far more posted opinions that don't line up with that lil' bit of common sense.

Everyone has common sense but emotions can override it... things like pride, resentment, fear, faith, hatred, love, loyalty... not all bad things but it doesn't hurt to remind people to use their common sense, right?

Rose42 wrote:

Nothing will change in the forseeable future.

Well, that's a dreary thought.

Reply
Jan 24, 2024 19:33:48   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
microphor wrote:
TSA already has the people in their system and flights booked. They still ask for ID before you're cleared to enter boarding areas. Are you dense or just playing that way.

LOL... What makes you think just because they boarded without ID, they weren't actually asked for it?

Reply
Jan 24, 2024 20:07:02   #
federally indicted mattoid
 
straightUp wrote:
Duck and let you hillbillies shoot each other...
....Are you worried you might screw up if you do?


Oh gosh, thanks for the laughs. Red fish guy's been spanked with a dictionary.

I gotta hand it to you s'up. You're better than late night hosts.

At least these folks can learn something if they try.

Reply
 
 
Jan 24, 2024 21:08:49   #
Rose42
 
federally indicted mattoid wrote:
At least these folks can learn something if they try.


You people should try too.

Reply
Jan 24, 2024 21:10:09   #
archie bunker Loc: Texas
 
straightUp wrote:
If you're talking about Israel, I would agree. If there is one problem I have with the Biden administration, it's the unwavering support for the Zionist government in Israel.


I've been to the border too, Skippy. Ports of entry are completely different than the wide open Rio Grande.
I just watched the CBS news where they showed people wading that river to get here.
Eagle Pass, Texas.

I'll give it to you that you can pull the wordy wordsmith garbage, and make a decent argument sometimes.

But, in the case of the border, you're either stupid, a liar, or a schill for the invasion of My country.

You're an immigrant?
Are you a citizen?
Where did you come from?
How did you get here?
What is your native nationality?

Like I said, you provide decent arguments; but the self righteous, condescending, narcissistic gaslighting gives you away.

Reply
Jan 24, 2024 21:10:34   #
federally indicted mattoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
You people should try too.


I did actually.

By reading what straightup wrote. Not everyone is as well-read as he is.

I'm happy that he's sharing his knowledge.

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Jan 24, 2024 21:16:00   #
archie bunker Loc: Texas
 
federally indicted mattoid wrote:
I did actually.

By reading what straightup wrote. Not everyone is as well-read as he is.

I'm happy that he's sharing his knowledge.


He kicks your dumb ass. I'll give him that.

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