no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun

That is one of the most concise explanations of what is going on that I have heard. Explaining it that way gives much more insight into what we have to face if we are to survive as a country and as a people. Thank you so much for this post.

LAPhil Loc: Los Angeles, CA

That is a REALLY interesting perspective, and I never thought about it that way. It sure puts a different light on some of the pro-illegal immigration messages on the signs of the activists at demonstrations such as "Who's the illegal, pilgrim?" and others which suggest that they've been here for 1500 years and that we should all go back to Europe.

todd

...OK ...so what about the various tribes over the past 10,000 years that hunted their way down coasts and inland to the plains or central continent? ...they laid claim to the territories and fought over the territories for various reasons...they weren't a single tribe...so why would the introduction of Europeans, Spaniards, French, Italians, Brits, Irish, Africans, be any different when it comes to violating the indigenous people that predated any of the other tribes...right now we Americans are the indigenous people getting ready to be overtaken so to speak with the those 'illegals' 'barbarians" with their diseases and their tribal isms and their 'gangs' and different ways than us indigenouses...after all the Europeans had their diseases, and strange ways and they were only friendly when it benefited them....for the most part they looked at the indigenous people as godless heathens...the tribes discredited each other....both sides had new diseases to spring on each other....what I am saying is that we have a kind of ethnocentric lens we look through on history and the current processes really have not changed that much for eons of time... with that said should the borders just be left to trespass by anyone who is motivated to cross the river to get here? ...that seems to be this chief-in-commander's invitation...thousands of people side stepping the regular line of tribes who have honored our requirement of hoops to jump over to get to this happy hunting ground..

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

:thumbup: :thumbup: It's good to have you with us, Todd. You THINK, and I like that!

BigOlBear

You make a very good point. :thumbup:

todd

..wow .....impressive compliment...thank you ..

PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Rdjarhead Loc: Oklahoma

Excellent post. :thumbup:

LAPhil Loc: Los Angeles, CA

It also doesn't hurt that he thinks the way WE do. :D :D :D :thumbup:

LAPhil Loc: Los Angeles, CA

Another one of the rallying cries of the illegals is "We didn't cross the border, the border crossed us!"
Oh, really? Seems to me they would prefer to be in a part of America rather than what would have been Mexico otherwise. If they didn't, what would prevent them from moving to Mexico? And to those who insist that California is really still Mexico, I would say to them that if that were true they would be sneaking into Oregon.

PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbup:

Homestead

Your asking questions that are easily answered, by simply letting your fingers walk across the key board.

Islam is quite proud of what Mohammed wrote, it is what gives their religion authenticity.


What the West needs to know about Islam. 10:37 – 11:55 (time marks)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4xCdehrV96U#!


The Koran occupies a place that has no parallel in Western civilization.

The Koran is considered by Muslims and by traditional Islamic theology to be dictated, word for word, by God himself, by Allah himself, through the Angel Gabriel, to the Prophet Mohamed.

As a result, every word of it, is the words of God himself. Every word of the Koran, unless it is canceled by another section of the Koran itself, is valid for all time and
cannot be questioned,
cannot be reformed,
cannot be changed, within an Islamic context.

This means that moderate Muslims, peaceful Muslims, if they are sincere, have to reject entirely Koranic literalism. But, to do so, puts them outside the sphere of anything that has been considered orthodox Islam throughout history, because to do so, is to reject the very basic premise of Islam, that this is a book, that is dictated by God and is a perfect copy of a perfect book the, “oomalkutab.” (Arabic spelling unknown) The mother of the book that has existed forever with Allah in heaven.

todd

...I respect you for having faith in your scripture and you obviously believe strongly that it is from God...but there are questions I have about the Koran specifically the hate for anyone considered non-Muslim....it does not come from God....

...look at the parts of the Koran that are hateful and lead to fighting and war:

2:65 Allah transforms disobedient Jews into apes
“And well you know there were those among you [Jews] that transgressed the Sabbath, and We said to them, ‘Be you apes, miserably slinking!’
2:89 Unbelievers, particularly Jews, are accursed
“When there came to them [Jews] a Book from Allah, confirming what was with them -- and they aforetimes prayed for victory over the unbelievers -- when there came to them that they recognized, they disbelieved in it; and the curse of Allah is on the unbelievers.
2:191-193 Fight and kill unbelievers until “religion is Allah’s,” i.e. Islamic law rules all societies
“And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, slay them -- such is the recompense of unbelievers, but if they give over, surely Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers.”
3:28 Don’t take unbelievers as friends and allies, unless it is for “fear of them,” i.e. deceptively for protection of oneself or of Islam
“Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends, rather than the believers -- for whoso does that belongs not to Allah in anything -- unless you have a fear of them. Allah warns you that You beware of Him, and unto Allah is the homecoming.”
3:110-112 Muslims are the best of people, Jews have earned Allah’s anger
“You are the best nation ever brought forth to men, bidding to honour, and forbidding dishonour, and believing in Allah. Had the People of the Book believed, it were better for them; some of them are believers, but the most of them are ungodly. They will not harm you, except a little hurt; and if they fight with you, they will turn on you their backs; then they will not be helped. Abasement shall be pitched on them, wherever they are come upon, except they be in a bond of Allah, and a bond of the people; they will be laden with the burden of Allah’s anger, and poverty shall be pitched on them; that, because they disbelieved in Allah’s signs, and slew the Prophets without right; that, for that they acted rebelliously and were transgressors.”
3:151 Allah will cast terror into the unbelievers' hearts
“We will cast into the hearts of the unbelievers terror, for that they have associated with Allah that for which He sent down never authority; their lodging shall be the Fire; evil is the lodging of the evildoers.”
3:181 Jews are bound for hell
“Allah has heard the saying of those who said, ‘Surely Allah is poor, and we are rich.’ We shall write down what they have said, and their slaying the Prophets without right, and We shall say, ‘Taste the chastisement of the burning.’”
4:34 Beat disobedient women
“Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that Allah has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for Allah’s guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; Allah is All-high, All-great.”
4:160 Jews do evil, turn people away from Allah
“And for the evildoing of those of Jewry, We have forbidden them certain good things that were permitted to them, and for their barring from Allah’s way many…”
5:33 Crucify or amputate the hands and feet of those who make war against Allah and Muhammad
"This is the recompense of those who fight against Allah and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth, to do corruption there: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off; or they shall be banished from the land. That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement."
5:41 Jews listen to falsehood and pervert the meaning of their Scriptures
“O Messenger, let them not grieve thee that vie with one another in unbelief, such men as say with their mouths ‘We believe’ but their hearts believe not; and the Jews who listen to falsehood, listen to other folk, who have not come to thee, perverting words from their meanings, saying, ‘If you are given this, then take it; if you are not given it, beware!’ Whomsoever Allah desires to try, thou canst not avail him anything with Allah. Those are they whose hearts Allah desired not to purify; for them is degradation in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement.”
5:51 Don’t take Jews and Christians as friends and allies
“O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. Allah guides not the people of the evildoers.”
5:59-60 Jews cursed, made into apes and swine
“Say: ‘People of the Book, do you blame us for any other cause than that we believe in Allah, and what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down before, and that most of you are ungodly?’ Say: ‘Shall I tell you of a recompense with Allah, worse than that? Whomsoever Allah has cursed, and with whom He is wroth, and made some of them apes and swine, and worshippers of idols -- they are worse situated, and have gone further astray from the right way.’”
5:64 Jews accursed
“The Jews have said, ‘Allah’s hand is fettered.’ Fettered are their hands, and they are cursed for what they have said. Nay, but His hands are outspread; He expends how He will. And what has been sent down to thee from thy Lord will surely increase many of them in insolence and unbelief; and We have cast between them enmity and hatred, till the Day of Resurrection. As often as they light a fire for war, Allah will extinguish it. They hasten about the earth, to do corruption there; and Allah loves not the workers of corruption.”
5:72 Christians are unbelievers
“They are unbelievers who say, ‘Allah is the Messiah, Mary’s son.’ For the Messiah said, ‘Children of Israel, serve God, my Lord and your Lord. Verily whoso associates with Allah anything, Allah shall prohibit him entrance to Paradise, and his refuge shall be the Fire; and wrongdoers shall have no helpers.’”
5:82 Jews most hostile to the Muslims
“Thou wilt surely find the most hostile of men to the believers are the Jews and the idolaters; and thou wilt surely find the nearest of them in love to the believers are those who say ‘We are Christians’; that, because some of them are priests and monks, and they wax not proud.”
6:91 Jews deny, conceal divine revelations
“They measured not Allah with His true measure when they said, ‘Allah has not sent down aught on any mortal.’ Say: ‘Who sent down the Book that Moses brought as a light and a guidance to men? You put it into parchments, revealing them, and hiding much; and you were taught that you knew not, you and your fathers.’ Say: ‘Allah.’ Then leave them alone, playing their game of plunging.”
6:146 Jews insolent
“And to those of Jewry We have forbidden every beast with claws; and of oxen and sheep We have forbidden them the fat of them, save what their backs carry, or their entrails, or what is mingled with bone; that We recompensed them for their insolence; surely We speak truly.”
7:166 Jews are apes
“And when they [Jews] turned in disdain from that forbidding We said to them, ‘Be you apes, miserably slinking!’”
8:12 Allah will terrorize unbelievers; Muslims should behead them
“When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, ‘I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers’ hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!’”
8:39 Fight unbelievers until Islam reigns supreme
“Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s entirely; then if they give over, surely Allah sees the things they do.”
8:60 Make war against enemies of Allah
“Make ready for them whatever force and strings of horses you can, to terrify thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them that you know not; Allah knows them. And whatsoever you expend in the way of Allah shall be repaid you in full; you will not be wronged.”
9:5 Slay the idolaters
“Then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.”
9:28 Idolaters unclean
“O believers, the idolaters are indeed unclean; so let them not come near the Holy Mosque after this year of theirs. If you fear poverty, Allah shall surely enrich you of His bounty, if He will; Allah is All-knowing; All-wise.”
9:29 Fight and subjugate the Jews and Christians
“Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden -- such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book -- until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled.”
9:30 Jews and Christians assailed by Allah
“The Jews say, ‘Ezra is the Son of Allah’; the Christians say, ‘The Messiah is the Son of Allah.’ That is the utterance of their mouths, conforming with the unbelievers before them. Allah assail them! How they are perverted!”
9:31 Jews and Christians have taken their clergy and holy men as lords
“They have taken their rabbis and their monks as lords apart from Allah, and the Messiah, Mary’s son -- and they were commanded to serve but One Allah; there is no god but He; glory be to Him, above that they associate.”
9:73 Be harsh with unbelievers
“O Prophet, struggle with the unbelievers and hypocrites, and be thou harsh with them; their refuge is Gehenna -- an evil homecoming!”
9:111 Paradise guaranteed to those who kill and are killed for Allah
“Allah has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of Allah; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon Allah in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who fulfils his covenant truer than Allah? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph.”
9:123 Fight the unbelievers, be harsh with them
“O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you; and let them find in you a harshness; and know that Allah is with the godfearing.”
47:4 Behead and slaughter the unbelievers; take others captive
“When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then, when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds; then set them free, either by grace or ransom, till the war lays down its loads. So it shall be; and if Allah had willed, He would have avenged Himself upon them; but that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will not send their works astray.”
48:29 Be merciful to believers, not unbelievers
"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are hard against the unbelievers, merciful one to another."
62:6 Jews should long for death
“Say: ‘You of Jewry, if you assert that you are the friends of Allah, apart from other men, then do you long for death, if you speak truly.’”
98:6 Unbelievers are the worst of creatures
“The unbelievers of the People of the Book and the idolaters shall be in the Fire of Gehenna, therein dwelling forever; those are the worst of creatures.”

rumitoid

No essential difference between the two. Both are all ego, need, and pain. Non-critical thinkers. Easy prey for conspiracies. Vanity central. Disconnected from humankind and hyper-linked to theories about humankind. Self-centered and defensive. Humanity's greatest and most persistent threat...and killer.

alabuck Loc: Tennessee

--------
So, you're saying, that even though we're a nation of immigrants, that even though our ancestors were here first, that even though we "W.A.S.P.S.," think we run this country, and have since Jamestown was founded. Bear in mind, that AFTER the Native Americans had been here for many millennia, that the Vikings, then the Spanish, then the French, then the English, then the Dutch, settled in the New World, in that order. Other Europeans came afterward.

Too, the English came to control everything from the southern Georgia border, over to the Mississippi River, up the Mississippi to and including Canada, then, back down the Eastern seaboard, by military conquest of the indigenous peoples and the other European colonies. Your comment negates the historical fact that our society is one of the most unique in the world. We gain strength by immigrants. Our strengths come about because of our differences. It's the unique blending of those differences that makeup our American culture.

In case you slept through your high school history classes, Americans encouraged relatively free and open immigration during the 18th and early 19th centuries, and rarely questioned that policy until the late 1800s. After certain states passed immigration laws following the Civil War, the Supreme Court in 1875 declared regulation of immigration a federal responsibility.

I'm not saying that immigration need not be regulated. It should. But, the reaction to many about our current immigration issues being the fault of the President is totally false. He's trying to enforce a law passed by Congress and signed by Bush, in 2008. Congress is playing politics with this issue and, just last Friday, punted it to the President, saying, publicly, that its in his authority to take care of the problem. And, that's the REPUBLICANS talking.

On another OPP post, someone claimed to have knowingly hired illegals to work because they worked more cheaply and he didn't have to document them. Why more people didn't jump on this post and express outrage at this person's actions, is beyond me. The only thing I can see is that those of the "right-wing" on here, didn't feel like chastising one of their own for his illegal deeds. Unless it's politically useful to use to bash Obama, the reich-wingers ignore it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If we prosecute the lawbreaking US citizens who hire these illegals, and give the illegals the incentive to come here, the problem will go away by itself.

Below is the poem that's inscribed on the base of the Statue of Liberty. To many on the "right," nowadays, it has no meaning. Apparently, they forget, we're a melting pot, an amalgamation, a diversification, a mixture of peoples, cultures, religions, and creeds. And, our Constitution says that EVERYONE is entitles to live under the same laws, liberties and freedoms, as the next person. No one is to be treated any differently because of race, color, religion, sexual orientation, creed, or gender. The sooner we learn to accept that being different is okay, the sooner we'll get our country back.

Just saying....

“The New Colossus” by Emma Lazarus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles.
From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!"” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”