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January 6th prisoners.
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Dec 20, 2023 10:39:29   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
JoyV wrote:
The Constitutionalists, those in the MAGA movement, and even Trump supporters, did NOT want to disrupt or stop the challenges to the electors ballot counts. Over a hundred challenges were made. Most by House members but several by senate members. Many of the challenges revolved around executive branch officials in certain States usurping powers the constitutions (both State and federal) gives to the legislature. Especially those States where the executive branch officials unconstitutionally certified electors after or at the same time as the legislature certified electors. Other challenges regarded election fraud. Why would those of us who cried foul want to stop the challenges? The result of the disruption was the very thing we were trying to prevent transpired. The challenges were never dealt with completely, and Pence discarded the ballots from the constitutionally certified electors and read into the record the opposition electors ballots which were unconstitutionally certified.

Here is some food for thought.

We the people have a constitutional right to witness our federal government in action. Every time congress is in session, the people have the right to access and observe. Once upon a time that meant observing from the floor. But there came a time when an observation gallery was built which is to be open anytime congress is in session. For the Jan 6 session, probably the most important session every 4 years, the gallery was locked as was the building. Perhaps those cops who let people in the building were ones who believed in following the oath and not violating our constitution. Maybe not as none of them unlocked the gallery.

Constitutionalists applied for a demonstration permit in early December to demonstrate outside the Capitol building on Jan 6th. The permit included the agreement that a delegation would sit in on the session from the gallery. But they were denied entry on the day, despite it being the right of every American, as well as having it spelled out in the permit. The Constitutionalists were not associated with the Trump rally. And the request for a demonstration permit preceded the scheduling of the rally. I was asked to go in December, but declined due to having clients' dogs in training as guide dogs, so couldn't get away. I had 3 different Constitutionalists friends contact me the evening before to tell me there were Feds agitators trying to rile up the demonstrators who had camped out overnight. One wanted me to check on other members and pass on the info to be careful of the Feds.

Who Benefitted from the disruption? Those who wanted the constitution violations to stand and those who wanted to put Biden in office. (Most often the same people.)

By the way. Many people say MAGA supporters when they mean Trump supporters. The MAGA movement predates Trump's run for office. He supported the MAGA movement. The MAGA movement did not support Trump. Though many in the MAGA movement also supported Trump.
The Constitutionalists, those in the MAGA movement... (show quote)



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Dec 20, 2023 10:41:27   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
JFlorio wrote:
No shit. Are you so dumb that you don't realize why? There were thousands there. You just admitted hundreds plead guilty. Small percentage. They weren't trying to overthrow the government. Most were trying to delay the certification until discrepancies could be adjudicated. Then a riot broke out. Those who attacked police or did damage should get jail time. Many plead to trespass or lesser sentences. Happens all the time. When a politicized DOJ is after you many will do what they have to do not to just throw their life away. I know the Bill of Rights means nothing to you. Many claim this was staged. I don't believe that. However; it's been proven that there were government (FBI, Informants, ANTIFA) agitators in the crowd. Your dishonesty is appaling.
No shit. Are you so dumb that you don't realize wh... (show quote)


To believe the silly lies told you by those who tried to overturn the elected government, is only the start of the distortion that trump is trying to cause..

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Dec 20, 2023 11:39:24   #
American Vet
 
permafrost wrote:
To believe the silly lies told you by those who tried to overturn the elected government, is only the start of the distortion that trump is trying to cause..


You are truly stupid.

Or dishonest.

My bad - you are both.

Reply
 
 
Dec 20, 2023 11:45:33   #
JoyV
 
Kevyn wrote:
They are not political prisoners they are at best criminal terrorists. They can vote while detained until they are convicted. They have waved their right to a speedy trial by their own choice to formulate a defense for the indefensible.


WHAT?????

What constitution are you reading? You are saying if you don't confess guilt, you have waived your constitutional rights!!!!

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Dec 20, 2023 12:06:37   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
permafrost wrote:
To believe the silly lies told you by those who tried to overturn the elected government, is only the start of the distortion that trump is trying to cause..


No one thinks they can overturn an election or overthrow a government with out heavily armed insurgents and inside help from the military. That's just common sense. Which you are sorely missing.

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Dec 20, 2023 12:16:20   #
JoyV
 
permafrost wrote:
Geez Hydro.. why do you people still post the lies of trump???

Let us look... so, you are accepting that trump, in a time when he had not yet been fired, was president of the usa and commander in chief of the military, asked Pelosi, who has nothing at all to do with the NG or capital security to move 20,000 troops to the capital...
Now, no record was found of such a request and why oh why would a person in charge, even one as dumb as trump ask a person who had no roll at all in moving security to do such a thing as that??? I know you wish the lies were true... but damn.. hang on to a tiny bit of logic and common sense...
Geez Hydro.. why do you people still post the lies... (show quote)


There are 4 people who have any degree of authority over security at the Capitol building. The Speaker of the House, the chief of the Capitol Police, and the DC Mayor. The president can activate the DC national guard, and deploy them to most places, but not to the Capitol building. He did activate them. No one else has the jurisdiction or authority. Not the Pentagon, FBI, DOJ, or anyone else in Congress; to have accepted the offer but the Speaker of the House.

The Capitol police chief originally accepted only a fraction of those offered, but restricted them to unarmed traffic control well away from the Capitol building. When Trump offered an additional 20,000, the offer was approved by Army Secretary Ryan Mccarthy, but the speaker rejected the offer. If Trump had overruled the decision, he could have been rightly charged with a coup. Later the chief requested more National Guard, but Pelosi refused.

There are multiple records of Trump's offer. First, the approval of the offer by Mccarthy in writing. Then the refusal by both Pelosi is documented. You can't refuse an offer unless an offer is made.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/01/12/why-the-dc-national-guards-role-was-limited-during-us-capitol-riot/

UPDATE: After J6, Congress passed a new National Defense Authorization Act which gives the DC Mayor the authority to call up the DC National Guard, and removes the president's authority over the DC National Guard.

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Dec 20, 2023 12:19:37   #
microphor Loc: Home is TN
 
permafrost wrote:
100s plead guilty to the role they had in the Jan 6th attack..

If you do not think an attempt to overturn our elected government is an attempt at insurrection, what do you think the goal of an insurrection is???


Oh, you mean trespass. ahahahaha--Wouldn't want that kind of attack when we could get the leftty BLM in to burn, loot, assault and kill!

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Dec 20, 2023 12:22:43   #
JoyV
 
permafrost wrote:
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-order-national-guard-156055113284

Trump did not sign an order to deploy 20000 troops on Jan. 6

CLAIM: Former President Donald Trump signed an order to deploy 20,000 National Guard troops before his supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, but was stopped by the House sergeant at arms, at the behest of Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. While Trump was involved in discussions in the days prior to Jan. 6 about the National Guard response, he issued no such order before or during the rioting. Speaker Pelosi does not control National Guard troops.

THE FACTS: New footage released Thursday of House lawmakers on Jan. 6 has sparked a resurgence of false claims and conspiracy theories about the insurrection.
AP News
https://apnews.com › article › fact-check-trump-order-...
Oct 18, 2022 — CLAIM: Former President Donald Trump signed an order to deploy 20,000 National Guard troops before his supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol on ...

Neither Pelosi nor the House sergeant at arms could have stopped an ordered deployment of National Guard troops because Congress doesn’t control the National Guard, legal experts say. Guard troops are generally controlled by governors, though they can be federalized, said William C. Banks, a law professor at Syracuse University
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-order-... (show quote)


Congress doesn't control the National Guard and can't call them up. They can make a request for them. But only the speaker and Capitol Police Chief can allow them to be deployed on congressional federal jurisdiction.

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Dec 20, 2023 12:44:58   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
JoyV wrote:
There are 2 people who have authority over security at the Capitol building. The Speaker of the House, and the chief of the Capitol Police. The president can activate the DC national guard, and deploy them to most places, but not to the Capitol building. He did activate them. No one else has the jurisdiction or authority. Not the Pentagon, FBI, DOJ, or anyone else in Congress; could have accepted the offer.

The Capitol police chief accepted only a fraction of those offered, but restricted them to unarmed traffic control outside of a blocks wide perimeter around the Capitol. When Trump offered an additional 20,000, it offer was approved by Army Secretary Ryan Mccarthy, but the speaker and the capitol police chief rejected the offer. If Trump had overruled their decision, he could have been rightly charged with a coup.

There are multiple records of the offer. First the approval of the offer by Mccarthy in writing. Then the refusal by both Pelosi and the chief is documented. You can't refuse an offer unless an offer is made.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/01/12/why-the-dc-national-guards-role-was-limited-during-us-capitol-riot/

UPDATE: After J6, Congress passed a new National Defense Authorization Act which gives the DC Mayor the authority to call up the DC National Guard, and removes the president's authority over the DC National Guard.
There are 2 people who have authority over securit... (show quote)




Pelosi did not block the National Guard from the Capitol on Jan. 6

CLAIM: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi blocked the National Guard from coming to the Capitol during the Jan. 6 insurrection.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. As Speaker of the House, Pelosi does not direct the National Guard. Further, as the Capitol came under attack, she and the Senate Majority leader called for military assistance, including the National Guard.

THE FACTS: On Tuesday, a false claim about the deadly Jan. 6 riot at the Capitol resurfaced suggesting that Pelosi blocked the National Guard from coming to lawmakers’ defense during the insurrection at the Capitol.

The answer is no.

“On January 6th, the Speaker, a target of an assassination attempt that day, was no more in charge of Capitol security than Mitch McConnell was. This is a clear attempt to whitewash what happened on January 6th and divert blame,” Drew Hammill, a spokesperson for Pelosi told The Associated Press in an email.

The decision on whether to call National Guard troops to the Capitol is made by what is known as the Capitol Police Board, which is made up of the House Sergeant at Arms, the Senate Sergeant at Arms and the Architect of the Capitol. The board decided not to call the guard ahead of the insurrection but did eventually request assistance after the rioting had already begun, and the troops arrived several hours later.

The House Sergeant at Arms reports to Pelosi and the Senate Sergeant at Arms reported to McConnell, a Republican who was then Senate Majority Leader. There is no evidence that either directed the security officials not to call the guard beforehand, and Hammill said after the insurrection that Pelosi was never informed of such a request.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-order-national-guard-156055113284

Trump did not sign an order to deploy 20,000 troops on Jan. 6


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/27/us/insurrection-pelosi-claims-fact-check.html

Republicans are blaming Nancy Pelosi for the Jan. 6 attack. Their claims don’t add up.



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Dec 20, 2023 12:47:04   #
JoyV
 
dwp66 wrote:
Fact is, on Jan 6 Trump did nothing for almost three hours, and never tried to call in extra security when things were went batshit crazy that day.

From your own link:

"Trump also claimed on Twitter that he directed the Guard to be deployed to the Capitol. This was not true. A New York Times report describes how he initially rebuffed and resisted calling them in for help, and White House counsel, Pat Cipollone, had to intervene. Ultimately it was Vice President Mike Pence who gave the order to deploy the Guard."

And btw, Pelosi had no part to play in any of this.
Fact is, on Jan 6 Trump did nothing for almost thr... (show quote)


Trump offered days before. Pence had no authority to accept deployment of the guard on congressional federal jurisdiction. But he, as president of the Senate (which was his role on that day) was at least an acting member of congress at the time. The President of the United States has NO authority over congressional authority. And though Congress has jurisdiction, the only congressional member of congress with that authority is Speaker of the House.

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Dec 20, 2023 12:57:43   #
JoyV
 
federally indicted mattoid wrote:
The SCOTUS ruling will finally convince you eh?

Can't wait for them to chime in.

Btw, Colorado's SC just removed the ex-pres from the ballot due to his inciting the crowd to an insurrection.


Unless a president has been removed from office by impeachment, there is no such thing as an ex-president of the United States. The title is forever, including after death. Only one president at a time sits in office. But forevermore that person holds the title of President. The correct address for Obama is President Obama. For Bush is President G.W. Bush. For Reagan, who is dead, it is still President Reagan. As it is for President George Washington.

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Dec 20, 2023 14:13:12   #
America 1 Loc: South Miami
 
permafrost wrote:
Pelosi did not block the National Guard from the Capitol on Jan. 6

CLAIM: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi blocked the National Guard from coming to the Capitol during the Jan. 6 insurrection.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. As Speaker of the House, Pelosi does not direct the National Guard. Further, as the Capitol came under attack, she and the Senate Majority leader called for military assistance, including the National Guard.

THE FACTS: On Tuesday, a false claim about the deadly Jan. 6 riot at the Capitol resurfaced suggesting that Pelosi blocked the National Guard from coming to lawmakers’ defense during the insurrection at the Capitol.

The answer is no.

“On January 6th, the Speaker, a target of an assassination attempt that day, was no more in charge of Capitol security than Mitch McConnell was. This is a clear attempt to whitewash what happened on January 6th and divert blame,” Drew Hammill, a spokesperson for Pelosi told The Associated Press in an email.

The decision on whether to call National Guard troops to the Capitol is made by what is known as the Capitol Police Board, which is made up of the House Sergeant at Arms, the Senate Sergeant at Arms, and the Architect of the Capitol. The board decided not to call the guard ahead of the insurrection but did eventually request assistance after the rioting had already begun, and the troops arrived several hours later.

The House Sergeant at Arms reports to Pelosi and the Senate Sergeant at Arms reported to McConnell, a Republican who was then Senate Majority Leader. There is no evidence that either directed the security officials not to call the guard beforehand, and Hammill said after the insurrection that Pelosi was never informed of such a request.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-order-national-guard-156055113284

Trump did not sign an order to deploy 20,000 troops on Jan. 6


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/27/us/insurrection-pelosi-claims-fact-check.html

Republicans are blaming Nancy Pelosi for the Jan. 6 attack. Their claims don’t add up.
Pelosi did not block the National Guard from the C... (show quote)


Their claims are correct.
Who has authority over the House of Representatives?
The presiding officer of the chamber is the Speaker of the House, elected by the Representatives.
He or she is third in the line of succession to the Presidency.

The presiding officer is the Speaker of the House, who is elected by the members thereof.
Other floor leaders are chosen by the Democratic Caucus or the Republican Conference, depending on whichever party has more voting members.

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Dec 20, 2023 15:09:47   #
Hydro
 
federally indicted mattoid wrote:
The SCOTUS ruling will finally convince you eh?

Can't wait for them to chime in.

Btw, Colorado's SC just removed the ex-pres from the ballot due to his inciting the crowd to an insurrection.


Hang on to the gloating on your face it will soon turn to a frown - 8 other states have already ruled against using the 14th ammendment to preclude Trump from the ballot - Colorado has a Supream Court made up of 9 DEMOCRATIC JUDGES of which the vote was 4 to 3 and won’t stand - Colorado is a deep blue state and was only looking to gain the notoriety the decision brought them but like you will loose a lot of credibility because they voted their bias opinion and reflected they aren’t the impartial set of judges they claimed they would uphold when they to their oath of office - H/She who laughs first gets laughed at last enjoy the hatred you feel and accept my condolences as you must be a very unhappy soul but have a Merry Christmas

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Dec 20, 2023 16:04:03   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Radiance3 wrote:
================
The insurrection was framed up by Pelosi, her team and many dishonest democrats.

Very obviously displayed in the J6th video. The video displayed the Police officers threw several rockets into the peaceful massive crowd to demonstrate their constitutional rights. But when police officers attacked them by throwing several rockets, that was the time they fought back.

And thousands of those who fought back are now in jail without due process. This is no longer America. But a Totalitarian control. The tens of millions of votes of the people were denied in 2020.

I think the election in 2020 was stolen from Trump. I think the jerk Joe Biden did not win the election. Now representing as your president.
================ br I The insurrection was fram... (show quote)



Oh, and an insurrection by definition, is an armed attack

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Dec 20, 2023 17:27:24   #
federally indicted mattoid
 
permafrost wrote:
You people are absolutely nuts.. the attack was done by trumpsters and they are guilty as hell..


Did you see this article?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/proud-boy-who-cooperated-with-u-s-gets-3-years-in-jan-6-attack/ar-AA1lLhbJ

Has a vivid video of the day and the timeline of events. It shows just how close the violence got to our lawmakers. And the brave Capitol Police who defended them.

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