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10 Fourth Graders and their teacher killed by assault rifle, 25 Elementary students wounded: See story on page 17
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Dec 5, 2021 19:25:59   #
American Vet
 
rumitoid wrote:
"Assault rifle, military firearm that is chambered for ammunition of reduced size or propellant charge and that has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully automatic fire. Because they are light and portable yet still able to deliver a high volume of fire with reasonable accuracy at modern combat ranges of 1,000–1,600 feet (300–500 metres), assault rifles have replaced the high-powered bolt-action and semiautomatic rifles of the World War II era as the standard infantry weapon of modern armies."
"Assault rifle, military firearm that is cham... (show quote)


And those weapons are already highly controlled.

Additionally, I do not recall any crimes being committed with such a weapon.

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Dec 5, 2021 19:26:45   #
American Vet
 
permafrost wrote:
got a date to go with those events??


Link was provided.

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Dec 5, 2021 19:30:39   #
American Vet
 
mgershowitz wrote:
The 2nd Amendment was never meant to put AR-15 style assault weapons into the hands of common folk .


Actually it was.

Apparently you are not familiar with the history of the 2A.

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Dec 5, 2021 19:43:13   #
RandyBrian Loc: Texas
 
mgershowitz wrote:
How about a legitimate answer from the middle? There are an overwhelming number of guns in the US available to most anyone who desires one regardless of legality meaning way too many, of course, end up in the hands of the wrong people (criminals, nut jobs, reckless children, etc.) The 2nd Amendment was never meant to put AR-15 style assault weapons into the hands of common folk yet advocates feel completely legitimate in compulsively ignoring the “well-regulated militia” part. The truth is daunting: reduce the amount of supply. If you fear needing protection from our established/armed law enforcement and/or military resources then you should 1st deal with some deep, unresolved paranoia issues.
How about a legitimate answer from the middle? The... (show quote)


Thank you for a reasoned response. Guns are not readily nor easily available. Illegal ones are expensive, and there is a significant risk in trying to acquire one illegally, unless you get one through gang membership. AR-15s are no more dangerous than a semi-automatic hand gun or revolver, except they are effective at a longer distance, an advantage only rarely, very rarely, used by criminals. or in mass killings. The advantage of longer accurate shooting is limited because they are hard to conceal. The proposals put forward by the left would only affect legal firearm purchases by law abiding citizens, which will do little or nothing to help curb firearm violence. The vast majority of gun owners will enthusiastically embrace future gun laws that do two things: 1. they must target criminals and criminal activity ONLY, and 2. the proposal must actually be effective and have a significant chance of actually working.
As to your last sentence, you might want to learn two things. ONE: Throughout the history of the world, virtually EVERY government has become a dictatorship, in practice if not in name. Republics, with the authority in the hands of the citizens, tend to keep their freedom the longest. TWO: Use a search engine and put in some variation of "evil and unethical things the United States government has committed against it's citizens". Be prepared to sit there a while. It's a long list. Our government and the unelected bureaucracy has spent the last 50 years moving us towards that authoritarian dictatorship.
One last thing. Paranoia is not necessarily unrealistic. It is also not always an illness. Sometimes a good health dose of distrust is a survival factor.

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Dec 5, 2021 19:47:43   #
mgershowitz
 
Reducing the oversupply of guns is exactly the point! Albeit eliminating all murder is likely not possible limiting access to commonly used murder tools will DEFINITELY make us safer, thus why as a society we mandate seatbelt use and make illegal driving intoxicated, or too fast, or going the wrong way on highways. In a perfect world people would self-regulate/control their actions and behavior but we’re unfortunately far from perfect and must therefore regulate behavior some people are just plain incapable of controlling.

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Dec 5, 2021 19:58:20   #
American Vet
 
mgershowitz wrote:
Reducing the oversupply of guns is exactly the point! Albeit eliminating all murder is likely not possible limiting access to commonly used murder tools will DEFINITELY make us safer,


The CDC reports a minimum of 200,000 DGU's per year.

Removing guns will make us less safe.

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Dec 5, 2021 20:03:05   #
RascalRiley Loc: Somewhere south of Detroit
 
wtroxell wrote:
What are monotonies?

I have no fear, I am prepared. Hopefully will never have to shoot anyone again.

I would recommend staying put. I lived in Calgary for 2.5 years, with my guns. One of my children is Canadian. She loves guns and shooting.

I get to choose what products I purchase from what manufacturers. Be that food, booze, bicycles, guitars or guns. That is freedom. That freedom is guaranteed by the US Constitution.

I have lived in several places throughout the world, some first, some third world. You have no idea what concepts I understand or agree with.

Largely, I have my point of view which I am free to have. You have yours. You think your ideas are better? Great.

Say hi to Bob and Doug McKenzie for me.
What are monotonies? br br I have no fear, I am p... (show quote)



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Dec 5, 2021 21:02:47   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
mgershowitz wrote:
The 2nd Amendment was never meant to put AR-15 style assault weapons into the hands of common folk yet advocates feel completely legitimate in compulsively ignoring the “well-regulated militia” part.
OK, Mr. Madison, explain if you will what you mean by "well-regulated militia".

Piers Morgan and Carol Roth Twitter exchange.

Morgan @piersmorgan: “The 2nd amendment was devised with muskets in mind, not high-powered handguns & assault rifles. Fact.”

Roth: “@piersmorgan: "It was devised 4 people 2b able 2 protect themselves w same type of weaponry used by those from whom they might need protection.”

Morgan: “@caroljsroth: "Where exactly does it say that in the Constitution – must have missed it?”

Roth: “@piersmorgan: "right next to the word ‘muskets.’”

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Dec 5, 2021 21:59:07   #
jfhubel Loc: Baldwinsville, NY
 
rumitoid wrote:
Typical strawman misdirection. I never said "they are sinister and vile and MIGHT do something violent." Sophomoric.


Please tell us what law you would pass and how it would work. Would you get 3/4 of the states to agree to overturn the 2nd amendment? Would you feel better if all the law abiding citizens were disarmed and only criminals had guns? Criminals being criminals would keep their guns so we would always be at their mercy. Even though the minorities are killing each other at an increasing rate in areas like Chicago, as a whole gun violence has been steadily going down nationwide while at the same time gun ownership is at an all time high. You might also keep in mind that cities where gun ownership is the highest, crime and gun violence is lowest. Just asking.

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Dec 5, 2021 22:34:00   #
RandyBrian Loc: Texas
 
mgershowitz wrote:
Reducing the oversupply of guns is exactly the point! Albeit eliminating all murder is likely not possible limiting access to commonly used murder tools will DEFINITELY make us safer, thus why as a society we mandate seatbelt use and make illegal driving intoxicated, or too fast, or going the wrong way on highways. In a perfect world people would self-regulate/control their actions and behavior but we’re unfortunately far from perfect and must therefore regulate behavior some people are just plain incapable of controlling.
Reducing the oversupply of guns is exactly the poi... (show quote)


Here is a small dose of reality for you. Seat belts and DUI laws are NOT the same thing. People ignore seat belts laws because it is uncomfortable or inconvenient. People commit DUI because booze and drugs temporarily suppresses the ability to make good judgements. The purpose is to make the risk of violation not worth while. It does work sometimes. Not enough. Are you going to make everyone start using full body harnesses because 10% will not use seat belts??
Illegal firearm use is different. A criminal deliberately picks up a firearm to threaten, intimidate, or murder. A mentally ill person does not make good or safe decisions, and may or may not have criminal intent. Someone committing a crime of passion, be it rage, hate, or whatever, will reach for the nearest weapon or deadly tool. A firearm if available, if not, then a kitchen knife, a screwdriver, a golf club, a tire iron, a baseball bat, whatever. A person attempting suicide will find a way if a firearm is not available.
Here is a serious analogy for your consideration. Think about a football game. A linebacker on one team keeps charging before the play starts. What do the referees do? First they flag him (arrest) and maybe penalize him. The next time they might penalize him again (fines or community service). Eventually the referees will take him out of the game (jail or prison). What they will NOT do is tell the whole team that they can no longer charge the opposing team because one of them is breaking the rules.
It is NEVER fair or right or moral or ethical to penalize the ones who follow the rules in order to stop the rule breakers. In the case of firearms, it will do absolutely no good, and will do much harm.

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Dec 5, 2021 22:35:39   #
RandyBrian Loc: Texas
 
American Vet wrote:
The CDC reports a minimum of 200,000 DGU's per year.

Removing guns will make us less safe.


That is what the CDC SAYS. More trustworthy sources put the number closer to 2 million.

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Dec 5, 2021 22:53:19   #
AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State
 
rumitoid wrote:
We are steadily growing inured to this sick and sad madness of an unchecked 2nd Amendment. The GOP looks the other way or says any federal gun control laws are useless. Just the good life in the US of A (and not any other democracies; look it up). Are abortionists that much worse?

For the Right, all this mass gun violence happening nearly every week, never mind averaging 120 deaths per day in 2021, is just what Bill O'Reilly said years back: "the price of freedom." No need to fret or cause for alarm, no action needed. God bless the NRA!

This attitude is beyond simply vile and ugly; it is heinous. It is the Devil's due. But they have severe Mad Elephant Disease and refused the godly vaccine of a conscience. Some pity, I suppose, is called for: they know not what they do. We can only pray that spirit and grace will dissolve the scales from their eyes.
We are steadily growing inured to this sick and sa... (show quote)



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Dec 5, 2021 22:56:45   #
AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State
 
mgershowitz wrote:
Reducing the oversupply of guns is exactly the point! Albeit eliminating all murder is likely not possible limiting access to commonly used murder tools will DEFINITELY make us safer, thus why as a society we mandate seatbelt use and make illegal driving intoxicated, or too fast, or going the wrong way on highways. In a perfect world people would self-regulate/control their actions and behavior but we’re unfortunately far from perfect and must therefore regulate behavior some people are just plain incapable of controlling.
Reducing the oversupply of guns is exactly the poi... (show quote)


Have you looked at the FBI records on most used weapon in murders. It may surprise you.

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Dec 5, 2021 23:30:19   #
mgershowitz
 
AuntiE wrote:
Have you looked at the FBI records on most used weapon in murders. It may surprise you.


How much of what’s been written in this thread does every contributor believe the Holland, MI parents who just lost their children last week want to hear? Only a couple of gang-infested wild-west style Central American “hot-spot” countries have a higher per capita gun death rate than the US, where as previously stated the civilian population owns more guns than the rest of the world combined. The 2nd amendment was written at a time when we just rid our shores of a foreign occupying army who specifically tried to prevent us from armed insurrection. Who are the foreigners now? From who do we as a society need protection? Perhaps it’s the gun makers who spread their vast wealth around via lobbyists?

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Dec 5, 2021 23:32:10   #
WinkyTink Loc: Hill Country, TX
 
mgershowitz wrote:
How about a legitimate answer from the middle? There are an overwhelming number of guns in the US available to most anyone who desires one regardless of legality meaning way too many, of course, end up in the hands of the wrong people (criminals, nut jobs, reckless children, etc.) The 2nd Amendment was never meant to put AR-15 style assault weapons into the hands of common folk yet advocates feel completely legitimate in compulsively ignoring the “well-regulated militia” part. The truth is daunting: reduce the amount of supply. If you fear needing protection from our established/armed law enforcement and/or military resources then you should 1st deal with some deep, unresolved paranoia issues.
How about a legitimate answer from the middle? The... (show quote)


The ArmaLite Model 15 Rifle is not an "assault style" weapon.
The Supreme Court has disagreed with all of your 2A points.
When it gets ugly, what my neighbor has, is mine.
I am willing to die to protect our freedoms and will not go alone.
I am well regulated right now, too much so actually.

Banning weapons will only succeed in making criminals out of law abiding gun owners.
The best Gun Salesmen in the country have been Barack Hussein O'Bama and Joe Biden ..... keep it up!
Good luck taking away the 20 million AR's, or any of the other 500 million guns in public hands.
BTW, neither my preparedness or paranoia are your business.

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