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Feds Accused Of Detaining Protesters Using Unmarked Vans - From The Patriot Hill
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Jul 24, 2020 13:23:44   #
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zombinis3 wrote:
Because woke yep a saying that everyone has a tendency to claim that you have to be. Now answer me this your infomation is coming from where?
Possible answer media facebook,beitbart,MSM, youtube and fellow members of the group you belong to. Because the Internet, if you are not in the area that is all you have to go on. Everyone it does not matter from which belief system you are going to get the story in accordance to what that persons view is.The main claim of the amount of people who own the media have total control of what is being seen or reported. I have a daughter in the area she even sent pictures of the action and areas. Yes the Fed is there to protect federal property that is all they are required from the state. Since the fed were not requested to come and also have been requested to leave. They are not allowed to leave that property. So if the reports are true they have already broken the law. Yeah the locals as reported by some to have lost control while others have claimed that the locals were allowing peaceful assembly. It was also reported that the bs had calmed down until the fed showed up.

Example the video of the vet that has gone around he was gassed and hit with batons. All he was saying was remember your oath. Now that claim can be taken two ways out and out lie to make the view that the fed or police are out of control, or the possibility that federal or police are actually are out of control.

It sounds like I am not taking a side because I don't believe in sides.What I do believe is that this country and the people have rights as I have repeatedly stated if the reports about the snatch and grabs are true someone is out of control.
Be them the protesters, authorities or those who just want to take advantage
of the situration. Rights be you a crook or an innocent are for everyone.
If you make a decision to break the law you should suffer the results of that decision.
Because woke yep a saying that everyone has a tend... (show quote)


Federal agents, according to federal law, are NOT required to restrict themselves to the property they are protecting but are authorized to move any where in the vicinity, not only to pursue those who have damaged federal property or prevent those who appear to be preparing to do so but to ENFORCE ANY FEDERAL LAW THAT APPEARS TO BE BEING VIOLATED ANY WHERE IN THAT CITY. Remember, many federal agents are already in most American cities (FBI, DEA, FPS, Secret Service, HHS, Marshals, etc.), they are legally authorized to the there and absolutely do not need the permission of locals. What the President is doing is merely supplementing the federal presence already there. BTW, it doesn't matter what the Navy vet was asking the officers, he was repeatedly asked to move on and refused to do so, hence the encouragement of the batons and gas. He reminds me of the three year old who is told to take the nail out of the electric outlet and instead of doing so replies "...but I am only..." - ZAP.

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Jul 25, 2020 13:26:06   #
zombinis3 Loc: Southwest
 
Navigator wrote:
Federal agents, according to federal law, are NOT required to restrict themselves to the property they are protecting but are authorized to move any where in the vicinity, not only to pursue those who have damaged federal property or prevent those who appear to be preparing to do so but to ENFORCE ANY FEDERAL LAW THAT APPEARS TO BE BEING VIOLATED ANY WHERE IN THAT CITY. Remember, many federal agents are already in most American cities (FBI, DEA, FPS, Secret Service, HHS, Marshals, etc.), they are legally authorized to the there and absolutely do not need the permission of locals. What the President is doing is merely supplementing the federal presence already there. BTW, it doesn't matter what the Navy vet was asking the officers, he was repeatedly asked to move on and refused to do so, hence the encouragement of the batons and gas. He reminds me of the three year old who is told to take the nail out of the electric outlet and instead of doing so replies "...but I am only..." - ZAP.
Federal agents, according to federal law, are NOT ... (show quote)


The reasoning of Oregon is that there are requirements that should be followed;
As per Oregon revised statutes 133.245 a federal officer can arrest a person but under certain conditions if the the crime is committed in front of the federal officers, and proable cause . However the federal officers shall inform the person the authority and reason for the arrest. Under this section without unnecessary delay place the person before a magistrate or hand them over to a peace officer.
In other words, federal law enforcement officers in Portland could have the legal authority to arrest individuals when they have probable cause for violations of federal or state law—but in the latter case, there are statutory notice and transfer requirements that, if media reports are accurate, are not being honored. But the Oregon statute also requires state certification that federal officers have received proper training before effectuating arrests under state law before such arrests can happen.

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Jul 25, 2020 18:28:39   #
Navigator
 
zombinis3 wrote:
The reasoning of Oregon is that there are requirements that should be followed;
As per Oregon revised statutes 133.245 a federal officer can arrest a person but under certain conditions if the the crime is committed in front of the federal officers, and proable cause . However the federal officers shall inform the person the authority and reason for the arrest. Under this section without unnecessary delay place the person before a magistrate or hand them over to a peace officer.
In other words, federal law enforcement officers in Portland could have the legal authority to arrest individuals when they have probable cause for violations of federal or state law—but in the latter case, there are statutory notice and transfer requirements that, if media reports are accurate, are not being honored. But the Oregon statute also requires state certification that federal officers have received proper training before effectuating arrests under state law before such arrests can happen.
The reasoning of Oregon is that there are requirem... (show quote)


You are partially on the beam. Federal agents are not in Portland to effectuate arrests under state law as there are plenty of federal laws being violated by the rioters. Federal agents have no requirement to hand over anyone they arrest to a peace officer, example the FBI arresting someone for bank fraud or the secret service arresting someone for counterfeiting, as they themselves have arrest and detaining powers under federal law. As far as the magistrate, that would be a federal judge with charges determined by the US attorneys office.

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Jul 26, 2020 00:51:57   #
zombinis3 Loc: Southwest
 
Navigator wrote:
You are partially on the beam. Federal agents are not in Portland to effectuate arrests under state law as there are plenty of federal laws being violated by the rioters. Federal agents have no requirement to hand over anyone they arrest to a peace officer, example the FBI arresting someone for bank fraud or the secret service arresting someone for counterfeiting, as they themselves have arrest and detaining powers under federal law. As far as the magistrate, that would be a federal judge with charges determined by the US attorneys office.
You are partially on the beam. Federal agents are... (show quote)



You are right they are there for federal law breaking. As I mentioned earlier on the reported calming down and the dropping of attendance. So it is pretty interesting that before the fed showed up the crimes were lower then after they showed the type of crimes went up instead of going down. The first entry DHS entered on 5/29 with a broken window and mostly graffiti until 6/6 the larger damage started it still consisted of property damage. On 6/7 that was when the first control methods were used all that was being thrown was animal seed. On 6/13 the first dispersal order was given but the attacks were still property damage. On 6/20 this was the first physical attack on officers. On 7/2 the second dispersal order was given and the crowd ignored it and this is the second time officers were attacked. (Federal Protective Services) FPS Officers were required to use crowd control measures. On 7/3 the court house was fire bombed and the Federal Officers put the fire out. The numbers were steady between 200 to 400 people. On 7/4 the numbers jumped to a 1000 and according to the reports the type of people changed now it was noticed that rifles were being carried. After 7/5 the attacks on officers increased as did the damage. More weapons were found with a higher deadly result if used. At this point the numbers of people began to vary again. Based on the reports the people can no longer be considered peaceful. The reasoning for sending in the fed was to control and contain the problems, But DHS own time line shows that it is not working.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-condemns-rampant-long-lasting-violence-portland

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Jul 26, 2020 12:57:38   #
Navigator
 
zombinis3 wrote:
You are right they are there for federal law breaking. As I mentioned earlier on the reported calming down and the dropping of attendance. So it is pretty interesting that before the fed showed up the crimes were lower then after they showed the type of crimes went up instead of going down. The first entry DHS entered on 5/29 with a broken window and mostly graffiti until 6/6 the larger damage started it still consisted of property damage. On 6/7 that was when the first control methods were used all that was being thrown was animal seed. On 6/13 the first dispersal order was given but the attacks were still property damage. On 6/20 this was the first physical attack on officers. On 7/2 the second dispersal order was given and the crowd ignored it and this is the second time officers were attacked. (Federal Protective Services) FPS Officers were required to use crowd control measures. On 7/3 the court house was fire bombed and the Federal Officers put the fire out. The numbers were steady between 200 to 400 people. On 7/4 the numbers jumped to a 1000 and according to the reports the type of people changed now it was noticed that rifles were being carried. After 7/5 the attacks on officers increased as did the damage. More weapons were found with a higher deadly result if used. At this point the numbers of people began to vary again. Based on the reports the people can no longer be considered peaceful. The reasoning for sending in the fed was to control and contain the problems, But DHS own time line shows that it is not working.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-condemns-rampant-long-lasting-violence-portland
You are right they are there for federal law brea... (show quote)


I hope your realize the fallacy of your argument as it is akin to claiming the Nazis combat energy increased during WWII when the US declared war and began to attack their assets. While that is absolutely true it was certainly no argument against declaring war on and attacking Nazis just as it is not a valid argument to decry the deployment of federal law enforcement to protect federal assets the locals refused to protect just because the anarchists intensified their efforts when the feds showed up.

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Jul 26, 2020 22:40:36   #
zombinis3 Loc: Southwest
 
Navigator wrote:
I hope your realize the fallacy of your argument as it is akin to claiming the Nazis combat energy increased during WWII when the US declared war and began to attack their assets. While that is absolutely true it was certainly no argument against declaring war on and attacking Nazis just as it is not a valid argument to decry the deployment of federal law enforcement to protect federal assets the locals refused to protect just because the anarchists intensified their efforts when the feds showed up.
I hope your realize the fallacy of your argument a... (show quote)

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Jul 26, 2020 23:56:15   #
zombinis3 Loc: Southwest
 
Navigator wrote:
I hope your realize the fallacy of your argument as it is akin to claiming the Nazis combat energy increased during WWII when the US declared war and began to attack their assets. While that is absolutely true it was certainly no argument against declaring war on and attacking Nazis just as it is not a valid argument to decry the deployment of federal law enforcement to protect federal assets the locals refused to protect just because the anarchists intensified their efforts when the feds showed up.
I hope your realize the fallacy of your argument a... (show quote)


When have I said that federal shouldn't protect federal property? What I have said is that it had to be done correctly inaccordance to the laws that are present. If the reports are correct then rights are being ignored. Ether way the message is being lost in mess that is portland. I'll say again its very possible that the presence of the fed is going to increase the problem not slow it down.
That is why procedure has to be followed to ensure that there is no possible way the reaction can be spun.

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Jul 27, 2020 21:19:05   #
Navigator
 
zombinis3 wrote:
When have I said that federal shouldn't protect federal property? What I have said is that it had to be done correctly inaccordance to the laws that are present. If the reports are correct then rights are being ignored. Ether way the message is being lost in mess that is portland. I'll say again its very possible that the presence of the fed is going to increase the problem not slow it down.
That is why procedure has to be followed to ensure that there is no possible way the reaction can be spun.
When have I said that federal shouldn't protect f... (show quote)


What you said is the arrival of the feds and their actions resulted in an increase in the number and violence of incidents so the feds should never have showed up. It is the height of absurdity to imagine enforcement action by a higher authority to stop the actions of criminals should not be attempted b/c those criminals have been given the green light by corrupt local politicians to engage in their criminal activity and the criminals will react violently when legitimate authorities move in to disrupt their cozy, corrupt arrangement.

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Jul 28, 2020 00:20:55   #
zombinis3 Loc: Southwest
 
Navigator wrote:
What you said is the arrival of the feds and their actions resulted in an increase in the number and violence of incidents so the feds should never have showed up. It is the height of absurdity to imagine enforcement action by a higher authority to stop the actions of criminals should not be attempted b/c those criminals have been given the green light by corrupt local politicians to engage in their criminal activity and the criminals will react violently when legitimate authorities move in to disrupt their cozy, corrupt arrangement.
What you said is the arrival of the feds and their... (show quote)


Yeah that is what happened the numbers were holding steady until the 7/4 then the numbers and criminal activity increased and the type of persons there changed with the reports of rifles being reported. When I mentioned 6/7 that is when it stopped being pacifism , using crowd controls as a response may have been over the top for being hit with animal seed. Even through on 6/13 the first dispersal order the attacks were still property. On 6/20 the attacks started on officers. At this time response had to include protection.
What I was pointing at is that with the increase level of hostility the response had to increase also. With the increase of response so does the responsibility of ensuring procedures are followed. So back to the report of person being snatched this is one reason why procedure must be followed,the situration
changes when the circumstances can be spun in negative way.

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