cold iron Loc: White House

How To Create a Social State by Saul Alinsky
There are 8 levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a social state. The first is the most important.
1) Healthcare - Control healthcare and you control the people
2) Poverty - Increase the Poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.
3) Debt - Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.
4) Gun Control - Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state.
5) Welfare - Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income)
6) Education - Take control of what people read and listen to - take control of what children learn in school.
7) Religion - Remove the belief in God from the Government and schools
8) Class Warfare - Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to take (Tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.
Any of this sound familiar ?

jay-are

How to retain a free state:

Educate the people (children) about how enemies have conquered in the past and how terrible the results of their actions were, and the free people will never vote for people who represent those tactics. No free, educated people would ever vote for Hitler a second time.

That is how it should work. What is wrong with you Americans? How can you condemn the Germans for allowing Hitler to get so much power, and then vote for Obama and the current bunch of Democrats, and allow them to do the same things Hitler did?

cold iron Loc: White House

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I have to wonder if anyone under 25 even knows who Hitler was.

Btfkr Loc: just outside the Mile High City

Good Gawd. A ghost from the past. We went all through these a while ago.. These were not written by Alinsky.

jay-are

Who wrote them and what does it mean regardless of who wrote them? Isn't it still indicative of how our enemies are working to overthrow the government that the founders founded?

PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.

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Btfkr Loc: just outside the Mile High City

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Btfkr Loc: just outside the Mile High City

I can't believe the way you are thinking, being you are from the side who supposedly hates lies and generally most of what we hear is all about how someone(s) lies! That this has been and continues to be published and attributed to Alinsky, IS A LIE!! So what you are telling me that some dork can write any piece of trash and attribute it to anybody especially if that anybody is hated politically by one side and can be linked to 2 somebodies that are hated by that side and that is OK with you? Isn't that a form of plagiarism? So why would an author do that? A feeble attempt to give it some credibility because he has none on his own perhaps? Give me a break.

This whole argument was posted under "is it clear yet?" 30 march. I'm not going to argue it all again. Here are 2 links. Be my guest to research your little heart out if you want.

http://www.beaufortobserver.net/Blog-3931.112112-7907.112112-Saul-Alinskys-rules-for-radicals-Are-We-There-Yet.html This is likely the dork who wrote it and LIED saying it was Alinsky's writing.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/alinsky.asp

Just look at the time frame of when Alinsky lived and the topics in these plagiarized "levels of control" and it just smells fishy to me right on the surface.

BTW, one outcome of that whole fandango is this; The greatest current fan of Saul Alinsky in current times is...TA DA!!! the Tea Party. His books are given out to their organizers and mostly sales of the books are to conservatives.

As to what it says, yes we are an extremely divided country, and I don't wish to belittle that point, but this particular bit of plagiarism to me is just another right wing scare tactic, conspiracy theory just dividing us further.

PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.

Assuming that Alinsky didn't write them, why do you proggies live by them?

Btfkr Loc: just outside the Mile High City

I'm going to be brief and will likely not argue much. All this crap has been discussed on many threads in various forms since I have been on this sight. No one changes opinion and frankly I'm getting board to tears.

1) Even under Obamacare, health care is still provided and controlled by private corporations. If we had a strong economy and people were able to make a good living, less government subsity would be needed for the poor.
2) It is not progressives that are creating poverty. I would blame the conservatives, and their handling of the economy. Even you have got to admit the strongest economy was under Clinton in times since Reagan. I will blame Clinton for trade agreements. I will blame cons for allowing jobs to be shipped over seas.
3) See #2. Clinton lowered debt, W raised it with more tax cuts while starting 2 never ending wars under false pretexts.
4) I've still got my guns, do you?
5) Welfare never was and still is not intended to be a permanent situation. We need a strong middle class and good paying jobs to get people off social programs and back to work.
6) Seems the cons are doing a pretty good job of taking over education. Check out where test books come from. Hint Texas.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/09/texas_science_textbooks_creationists_try_to_remove_evolution_from_classrooms.html
7) Religion and government were intended to be separate by our founding fathers.
8) My favorite! Just who is it that insists on giving all the tax cuts to the extremely wealthy and making the middle class shoulder the responsibility. It ain't the progressives.

As I said, it is you cons that are loving Alinsky these days. It was a con that attributed these 8 levels to Alinsky, therefore I would conclude that it is the cons who are following the 8 levels (that were not really written by Alinsky, but due to a lie, most cons think they were).

jay-are

By design, the Obamacare scheme is to force insurance companies out of business and leave only the government as the sole provider of healthcare. Who is providing the healthcare that everyone is required to have insurance for to the poor who cannot afford to pay for insurance? The government. So, the government has made itself a healthcare provider. Although there are still private insurance companies, they will be put out of business because they cannot compete with the government, which can impose regulations on private business that it doesn't impose on itself. The defense of Obamacare is not that private companies still are the providers of health insurance. The defense would be that the government can never take over healthcare and be the sole provider. Can you say that with certainty? We know that would be bad for the people. You don't defend Obamacare by agreeing to fight to stop government from becoming the sole provider, you only say it hasn't happened yet. That whole list is the end goals, but it implies a gradual, progressive movement toward those goals. Can you honestly say Obamacare is not a step in that progression? The fact that it is evidence that you are working toward that end is what we are accusing your side of, not that the goal is already accomplished. If you disagree with government taking control of healthcare, then you are siding with the conservatives on this issue. Don't say you are liberal but liberals aren't doing what conservatives claim. If people are not working to accomplish the liberal agenda, then they are not liberal. That list does accurately describe what a certain group of people want to accomplish and represents a method, when all the points are accomplished, to overthrow the type of government that this country was founded with. That group to people call themselves liberals, or progressives. If you don't want those goals to be accomplished, you are not one of them. With each of your defenses, you seem to say, "it is not true that I want those things and I don't support that end goal." If you truly do not want to work to accomplish those goals, you are not one of them, you are on the conservative side.

Btfkr Loc: just outside the Mile High City

JR. The government has been a provider of health care through Medicare since 1966 and the VA since the beginning. Except for part D that the shrub put in place which doesn't allow the government to negotiate drug prices as the private sector can, it is a good system. We would be better off with a Medicare system for all, and there would still be room for private coverage for those who desired it (or could afford it). Why cannot we, the greatest nation, do what every other civilized nation has done and get better health care results for less money? As written, Obamacare is not a good law, rather a compromise for now. So does that remove any doubt as to which side of the fence I am on? One out of 8. Call it what ever you like, I call it civilized.

jay-are

I can accept that you are a conservative, can you?

Btfkr Loc: just outside the Mile High City

I haven't seen any solution out of the right that addresses the health care problem as far as a "medicare for all" government funded not for profit system. If you call me a conservative because I don't like Obamacare as it is written I guess you can.

no1healey

I have often wondered at the motives of many things to achieve Social Reform like your post states. Then it occurred to me to achieve these goals you would simply put on the "brakes" on America's economy . For example there are several posts indicating that the Immigration fiasco is nothing more than causing deep economic havoc no nation has ever withstood . Environmentalism is another ploy to "put" the economic train to stop , by reducing those funds from natural resources that feed our whole economy at the grass roots. (pun intended). DOT recently issued new truckers guidelines and regulations , EVEN after proof that the numbers have been improving for several years ,Again the only possible motive is putting the "brakes" on the industry causing financial harm . Ever wonder why we can have the United Negro college fund or Miss Black America ,but not Miss White America or college funds and so much more in this field ? Putting the Economy brakes" on" the train . In every Legislation I clearly see the Economy "braking" action of our economy .. If you google the Cloward and Piven strategy ,it easy to see this method of Social Reform by cutting of the American Economy by applying the "brakes" in a host of ways . Once you see this , you cannot ever not see it. The plan is so simple..Brilliant !