Check out topic: White Ethnicities Are Being Replaced
Come on Christians, It’s Time To Let Go of Your Aversion to Gays
Mar 2, 2020 18:37:30 #
The term, Sodomy is used throughout Scripture in place of the word, Homosexuality. It is never used to represent a term for "poverty relief" or "welfare."
Ezekiel 16:50 "They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it." is represented as a separate thought, the one directly causing their destruction and removal from the earth.
Sodomy is referring to that sin, which has its name from them; a sin abominable to God, and scandalous to human nature; which they committed openly and publicly, neither fearing God, nor regarding men; and the cause for which they are said to be sinners before the Lord in Genesis 13:13.
Most Relevant Verses
Romans 1:27
and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Genesis 19:5-7
and they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them." But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, "Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.
1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
Leviticus 20:13
'If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guiltiness is upon them.
Romans 1:26
For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Ezekiel 16:50 "They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it." is represented as a separate thought, the one directly causing their destruction and removal from the earth.
Sodomy is referring to that sin, which has its name from them; a sin abominable to God, and scandalous to human nature; which they committed openly and publicly, neither fearing God, nor regarding men; and the cause for which they are said to be sinners before the Lord in Genesis 13:13.
Most Relevant Verses
Romans 1:27
and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Genesis 19:5-7
and they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them." But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, "Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.
1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
Leviticus 20:13
'If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guiltiness is upon them.
Romans 1:26
For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Saspatz007 wrote:
Sodomy was only one of the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Ezekiel 16:49 - Look this was the guilt of your Sodom: she and her daughters had pride excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty, and did abominable things before me: therefore I removed them when I saw.
Note: failure to care for the poor and needy, under prosperous conditions, is listed before “abominable acts”.
Ezekiel 16:49 - Look this was the guilt of your Sodom: she and her daughters had pride excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty, and did abominable things before me: therefore I removed them when I saw.
Note: failure to care for the poor and needy, under prosperous conditions, is listed before “abominable acts”.
Mar 2, 2020 20:41:44 #
Chamuco wrote:
Similarly.., I do not whitewash science by separating it from the effects of scientific discovery.
Actually you do.. Cause and means
Quote:
Without the "human construct".., NEITHER FAITH NOR SCIENCE EVEN EXISTS.
This statement is horrendously false... Neither faith nor science rely on humanity to exist... Faith is grounded in God, science is a part of the natural universe... If every man, woman, and child ceased to exist, do you believe that God would die and the universe would collapse?
Sheer nonsense...
Religion is so human construct... It will cease when humanity passes away....
Scientific discovery may be lost or forgotten, but science is intrinsic to the universe...
Quote:
1. while it ABSOLUTELY TRUE that without science.., weapons of mass destruction COULD NOT exit..,
No... You are conflating science with human ingenuity... Without humanities application of science, weapons of mass destruction wouldn't exist... They still could..
[quote]2. it is ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE that without religion the vast majority of wars [including the most destructive of them all -- civil war, ww1, ww2 not to mention korean and vietnamese wars -- WOULD NOT have been waged.[/quote]
There would be other factors, true.... But one must take it context the parts, as well as the whole...
You realize that there were huge wars fought hundreds and thousands of years before the ones you named... And none of them were fought over science.... Not one...
In our history there has never been a war where we said "their science is different from ours, better smack them down"...
Quote:
Your tolerance/respect for all religions is laudable but completely beside the point.
It was a statement in response to your mockery of my faith... Was that mockery to the point?
Mar 2, 2020 20:43:37 #
Saspatz007 wrote:
Sodomy was only one of the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Ezekiel 16:49 - Look this was the guilt of your Sodom: she and her daughters had pride excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty, and did abominable things before me: therefore I removed them when I saw.
Note: failure to care for the poor and needy, under prosperous conditions, is listed before “abominable acts”.
Ezekiel 16:49 - Look this was the guilt of your Sodom: she and her daughters had pride excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty, and did abominable things before me: therefore I removed them when I saw.
Note: failure to care for the poor and needy, under prosperous conditions, is listed before “abominable acts”.
It's a point that goes over the head of many...
Check out topic: IRANIAN PRESIDENT PRESUMED DEAD
Mar 2, 2020 21:15:11 #
It is only after the abominable acts that God declared He removed them from the land.
That was the tipping point, the final straw that broke the camel's back, the match in the powder barrel.
That was the tipping point, the final straw that broke the camel's back, the match in the powder barrel.
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
It's a point that goes over the head of many...
Mar 2, 2020 21:36:25 #
Zemirah wrote:
It is only after the abominable acts that God declared He removed them from the land.
That was the tipping point, the final straw that broke the camel's back, the match in the powder barrel.
That was the tipping point, the final straw that broke the camel's back, the match in the powder barrel.
Where does it state that?
Mar 3, 2020 00:14:21 #
Mar 3, 2020 00:48:12 #
Hmmm.
I see we are still at this game of divide and conquer?
DING DING DING DING By the way - what is eating up everybody's hormones?
I see we are still at this game of divide and conquer?
DING DING DING DING By the way - what is eating up everybody's hormones?
Mar 6, 2020 16:36:16 #
manning5
Loc: Richmond, VA
A general comment.
The Bible and OPP:-
This thread has been immensely educational! It has been a walk through both the Bible and variations on the themes of anti-religion. with consummate Bible scholars and fierce atheists and others trying for a win or a knockdown by applying their scholarship. It has been a whirlwind of Biblical quotes buttressing various claims.
By no means could I jump in and throw verses around as others have in the thread, for my knowledge of the Bible is simply insufficient. I come away from the thread unfazed by the Biblical debates and the issues I see as important to my faith.
So, in a show of relative simplicity here is my perspective:
1. The Bible exists.
2. The Bible shares with us the Word of God.
3. There are passages that are difficult to understand, and even seem irrational to most people.
4. Most passages are extremely important and readily understood.
5. For this thread, here are at least five of perhaps 21 passages that reference Homosexuality/Sodomy:
1) Leviticus 18.22 and 20.13;
2) Romans 1.27;
3) 1 Corinthians 6.9-11;
4) Genesis 19:5-7;
5) 1 Timothy 1.8-11.
Thus it is quite clear that God's Words are convincingly against Homosexuality/sodomy in all of its forms.
6. Christians have a choice; to follow the Word of God and be against Homosexuality, or to decide to accept it, in which case they are going against God's Words with ultimately a penalty of some major kind. Such persons could be considered to be non-Christians.
7. Those who accept Homosexuality wholeheartedly seem to be either agnostic or atheistic in their belief system, and they appear to be driven by rejection of the Bible and the Words of God it contains. They have developed a Worldview that is essentially anti-Christian.
8. Those "Christians" who simply tolerate Homosexuals and perhaps keep their negative views to themselves in order to be socially correct in today's world, are dodging the issue at their peril. They will undoubtedly be held accountable for their failure to follow the Words of God.
9. A much used tactic by anti-Christians is to make a furious attack on various sections of the Bible as being complete nonsense, and to attack the various authors and how their writings are either included or excluded by religious authorities at key points in the history of the Bible's development. They reject the idea that God blessed the developers and guided their decisions.
Most of us do not have the wherewithal to refute these attacks immediately, and react to them by going very silent in our faith, thinking all the while that there are answers to the attacks in the Bible itself if we only had the knowledge of Biblical scholars. Later, perhaps we do find some answers on our own, or with help from others.
10. A major debate in the thread has been whether the Trinity holds up to scrutiny, when many passages in the Bible imply that Jesus is not co-equal with God. My simple view is that it is really up to God whether Jesus becomes co-equal, and I am quite content to wait and see. Whether Jesus is, was or will be co-equal does not alter my faith. Meanwhile, I will believe in the Trinity: God; Jesus; and the Holy Spirit; along with The Nicene and Apostle's Creeds.
11. Another subject I can relate to is Intelligent Design, which is a scientific endeavor to discover instances of design in nature. Obviously, as a Christian I believe in God as the Architect of the Universe and the Creator of all things. Thus, I see ID efforts following a path which must eventually lead to recognizing many of the works of God from a scientific viewpoint.
12. There are a number of Bible passages that should give every Christian pause. They relate to not consorting with evil people of all kinds. Here are three of the passages:
1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
Psalm 1:1
Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”
The Bible and OPP:-
This thread has been immensely educational! It has been a walk through both the Bible and variations on the themes of anti-religion. with consummate Bible scholars and fierce atheists and others trying for a win or a knockdown by applying their scholarship. It has been a whirlwind of Biblical quotes buttressing various claims.
By no means could I jump in and throw verses around as others have in the thread, for my knowledge of the Bible is simply insufficient. I come away from the thread unfazed by the Biblical debates and the issues I see as important to my faith.
So, in a show of relative simplicity here is my perspective:
1. The Bible exists.
2. The Bible shares with us the Word of God.
3. There are passages that are difficult to understand, and even seem irrational to most people.
4. Most passages are extremely important and readily understood.
5. For this thread, here are at least five of perhaps 21 passages that reference Homosexuality/Sodomy:
1) Leviticus 18.22 and 20.13;
2) Romans 1.27;
3) 1 Corinthians 6.9-11;
4) Genesis 19:5-7;
5) 1 Timothy 1.8-11.
Thus it is quite clear that God's Words are convincingly against Homosexuality/sodomy in all of its forms.
6. Christians have a choice; to follow the Word of God and be against Homosexuality, or to decide to accept it, in which case they are going against God's Words with ultimately a penalty of some major kind. Such persons could be considered to be non-Christians.
7. Those who accept Homosexuality wholeheartedly seem to be either agnostic or atheistic in their belief system, and they appear to be driven by rejection of the Bible and the Words of God it contains. They have developed a Worldview that is essentially anti-Christian.
8. Those "Christians" who simply tolerate Homosexuals and perhaps keep their negative views to themselves in order to be socially correct in today's world, are dodging the issue at their peril. They will undoubtedly be held accountable for their failure to follow the Words of God.
9. A much used tactic by anti-Christians is to make a furious attack on various sections of the Bible as being complete nonsense, and to attack the various authors and how their writings are either included or excluded by religious authorities at key points in the history of the Bible's development. They reject the idea that God blessed the developers and guided their decisions.
Most of us do not have the wherewithal to refute these attacks immediately, and react to them by going very silent in our faith, thinking all the while that there are answers to the attacks in the Bible itself if we only had the knowledge of Biblical scholars. Later, perhaps we do find some answers on our own, or with help from others.
10. A major debate in the thread has been whether the Trinity holds up to scrutiny, when many passages in the Bible imply that Jesus is not co-equal with God. My simple view is that it is really up to God whether Jesus becomes co-equal, and I am quite content to wait and see. Whether Jesus is, was or will be co-equal does not alter my faith. Meanwhile, I will believe in the Trinity: God; Jesus; and the Holy Spirit; along with The Nicene and Apostle's Creeds.
11. Another subject I can relate to is Intelligent Design, which is a scientific endeavor to discover instances of design in nature. Obviously, as a Christian I believe in God as the Architect of the Universe and the Creator of all things. Thus, I see ID efforts following a path which must eventually lead to recognizing many of the works of God from a scientific viewpoint.
12. There are a number of Bible passages that should give every Christian pause. They relate to not consorting with evil people of all kinds. Here are three of the passages:
1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
Psalm 1:1
Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”
Mar 6, 2020 19:22:11 #
manning5 wrote:
A general comment. br br The Bible and OPP:- br T... (show quote)
The books of Psalms and Proverbs are chock full of wisdom.
Mar 6, 2020 19:29:45 #
While your position is well stated..,
it is founded on "givens" which are only assumptions..,
ie, that the Bible represents the actual word of God and..,
that the truths that lay within it are infallible and unchangeable.
Forget the fact that there are a wide variety of Faiths which also
PURPORT to be the "word of God"..,
the so-called "word God", which the Bible purports to be, has
PROVEN to be far less than "infallible" [see its' long held interpretation
regarding the inferiority of Blacks].
I respect all Faiths but choose Christianity because I believe Christ to
be the the ultimate role model as to how to live one's life.
Few atheists have my respect because they generally are an arrogant,
dismissive and condescending bunch who refuse to accept the REAL
benefits which Faith bestows..., benefits which flow to the individual
regardless of whether God exists or does not.
it is founded on "givens" which are only assumptions..,
ie, that the Bible represents the actual word of God and..,
that the truths that lay within it are infallible and unchangeable.
Forget the fact that there are a wide variety of Faiths which also
PURPORT to be the "word of God"..,
the so-called "word God", which the Bible purports to be, has
PROVEN to be far less than "infallible" [see its' long held interpretation
regarding the inferiority of Blacks].
I respect all Faiths but choose Christianity because I believe Christ to
be the the ultimate role model as to how to live one's life.
Few atheists have my respect because they generally are an arrogant,
dismissive and condescending bunch who refuse to accept the REAL
benefits which Faith bestows..., benefits which flow to the individual
regardless of whether God exists or does not.
Mar 6, 2020 21:11:39 #
eagleye13 wrote:
The books of Psalms and Proverbs are chock full of wisdom.
No offense but..,
so is Poor Richard's Almanac.
Check out topic: White Ethnicities Are Being Replaced
Mar 6, 2020 21:29:58 #
manning5 wrote:
A general comment. br br The Bible and OPP:- br T... (show quote)
That was very well put.
I commend you for the simplicity and honesty of your words. The fight that unbelievers attempt is pathetic but we have to do our best to make disciples and watch in spite of them. Maybe they’ll answer Gods call, maybe not.
God bless you 🙏🙏🙏
Mar 6, 2020 22:57:00 #
manning5
Loc: Richmond, VA
Marty 2020 wrote:
That was very well put.
I commend you for the simplicity and honesty of your words. The fight that unbelievers attempt is pathetic but we have to do our best to make disciples and watch in spite of them. Maybe they’ll answer Gods call, maybe not.
God bless you 🙏🙏🙏
I commend you for the simplicity and honesty of your words. The fight that unbelievers attempt is pathetic but we have to do our best to make disciples and watch in spite of them. Maybe they’ll answer Gods call, maybe not.
God bless you 🙏🙏🙏
May God bless you also, Marty, and thanks for your comment.
Mar 7, 2020 15:09:28 #
manning5
Loc: Richmond, VA
manning5 wrote:
A general comment. br br The Bible and OPP:- br T... (show quote)
The Bible and OPP II
The Preface that was left out
0.1:- I believe it was the Big Bang that began my renewed interest in Christianity. This singular event must have had a cause, and its result was a magnificent show of the Cosmos.
0.2:- That cause was an eternal God who was Himself the Uncaused Cause. He created the heavens and earth and all the life on His planet, including Man and Woman.
0.3- The result was a universe in space and time which was tuned exquisitely in its physical constants for the advent of Man, hence its title of The Anthropomorphic Universe. By one count, over 32 key constants have been so carefully chosen that the minutest changes in them would destroy Man and much of the Cosmos itself.
0.4:- As Man multiplied from the first couple that sinned, Adam and Eve, sinning became rampant. God created His Son, Jesus to stand for all the sins of the people, and to offer them salvation, all in the name of God. Jesus became a Man, and as proof of His kinship with God He performed numerous miracles and preached the Gospel to large crowds during His brief life, before dying on the cross.
0-5:- Jesus selected Apostles to carry forward His message of salvation to the people. Their messages eventually became documented in what is now the Bible, authored by scribes after many years.
The Bible has been translated many times from the original scribing, and in some cases deviating from the original meanings, which causes deep controversies to occur. Indeed, whole books written to be included in the Bible have been deleted for cause--- 1 Enoch is a great example of what is called the books left out: The Apocrypha.
As many men do, I felt the need for a moral system to guide my life. The basics of such a system was quite obvious and necessary to me:
a. Honor my family
b. Do not commit adultery
c. Do not lie
d Do not kill others
e. .Do not covet other's things
In addition, I felt a great need to find answers to the fundamental questions of our lives:
a. Why is there something rather than nothing?
b. Why the Universe, God and Man?
c. What is the purpose of the Universe and Man?
d. Is there an afterlife?
e. Does man have a soul?
One can go bonkers trying to find good answers to these stumpers, and it comes as a great relief to find in the Bible sufficient answers to quiet the natural anxiety I had contemplating the questions.
Mar 7, 2020 15:14:40 #
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