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Today's GOP, a party of lying liars
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Nov 25, 2019 10:34:51   #
alabuck Loc: Tennessee
 
Gatsby wrote:
I'm not planning on going away, just standing on dry ground, watching the quicksand do its thing.


—————

Standing on dry ground with feet of clay.

Reply
Nov 25, 2019 10:40:14   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
Allbent wrote:
Really where the Heck is my millions,Biden worked for me and a whole bunch of other folks and all I am worth less than 40 grand a year. Something very WRONG there. I know I don't Lie to millions of hard working folks and do nothing in return. What a concept

Allbent, it would help all of us if you would start hitting 'quote reply' under any post/poster to whom you are addressing your comments/remarks. It is not always obvious as to whom they are directed. Thank you.

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Nov 25, 2019 10:49:01   #
Gatsby
 
alabuck wrote:
—————

Standing on dry ground with feet of clay.


Nope, just standing my ground and enjoying the show.

Reply
 
 
Nov 25, 2019 11:26:26   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Gatsby wrote:
Nope, just standing my ground and enjoying the show.
Nope, just standing my ground and enjoying the sho... (show quote)


The dim's last ditch show restarts next week.
December 9?
That is some ditch they are digging themselves into.

Reply
Nov 25, 2019 11:38:15   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
slatten49 wrote:
By Jennifer Rubin. Mrs. Rubin is an American neoconservative journalist who writes the "Right Turn" blog for The Washington Post. Previously she worked at Commentary, PJ Media, Human Events, and The Weekly Standard. Her work has been published in media outlets including Politico, New York Post, New York Daily News, National Review, and The Jerusalem Post.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When listening to President Trump and fellow Republicans throw around accusations against Democrats and the media or advance defenses for Trump’s impeachable conduct, there is a better than even chance they are misleading if not downright lying. In some cases, we discover the lies because other individuals are caught lying.

Roger Stone was convicted, among other things, of lying to Congress about his conversations with WikiLeaks’s Julian Assange. He falsely claimed: He had no emails, documents or texts relating to WikiLeaks; he never sought damaging information (i.e., emails) about Hillary Clinton; never contacted WikiLeaks through intermediaries; and never contacted the Trump campaign about WikiLeaks. The last lie — denying contacts with the Trump campaign — raises the question as to whether President Trump lied in responses to Robert S. Mueller II.

At the trial we learned about Stone’s numerous contacts with the campaign: Rick Gates, who served as Trump’s deputy campaign chairman, testified Tuesday that Stone began discussing Clinton leaks with the campaign in April 2016 and that from May onward Gates understood Stone to be the campaign’s intermediary with WikiLeaks. By July 2016, Gates testified, Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort said he was updating Trump and others regularly and directed Gates to keep following up with Stone. After Trump ended one phone call from Stone at the end of that month, Gates testified, the future president said to Gates that “more information would be coming.”

In his written answers, however, Trump claimed he had “no recollection” of conversations with Stone about WikiLeaks nor did he recall knowing Stone had discussed WikiLeaks’s email drops with the campaign. Perhaps Trump’s memory is addled; if not, it appears he lied to Mueller.

Likewise, in the Ukraine matter multiple witnesses gave testimony that suggests that Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland has been telling falsehoods under oath. Some he has remedied, such as his initial statement that he had not communicated to the Ukrainians that military aid was dependent upon their opening an investigation into the Bidens. However, we now know from at least one other witness that Sondland’s denial that he spoke to the president or to the State Department was false. (He spoke to both.) One wonders if he’ll share a similar fate as Stone, the former Trump confidant who this week was found guilty on charges of lying to Congress, obstruction of justice and witness tampering.

The Trump lies relating to Ukraine are numerous and serious, although not delivered under oath. CNN fact-checker Daniel Dale has documented 45 Trump lies concerning Ukraine including:

Trump did not ask [Ukrainian President Volodymyr] Zelensky for anything on the call. (Trump asked Zelensky to look into former Vice President Joe Biden, look into a debunked conspiracy theory about Democratic computer servers, and speak with his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani and Attorney General William Barr.)

Zelensky criticized former US ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch “out of the blue” on the call. (Trump brought up Yovanovitch first.) . . . .

The whistleblower was “sooo wrong.” (The rough transcript and witness testimony have proven the whistleblower to have been highly accurate.) . . .

Schiff might have been the whistleblower’s source. (This is nonsense. The whistleblower said in the complaint that information about the call came from “multiple White House officials with direct knowledge of the call.”)

Other Trump lies include his denial that United States military aid was held up, his bizarre accusations that House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) was the whistleblower’s source and his unfounded allegations that former vice president Joe Biden “stole” millions of dollars from foreign countries and pressured Ukraine to fire a prosecutor when Hunter Biden was still under investigation.

House Republicans continually traffic in lies — e.g., Ukraine interfered with our election, Joe Biden’s conduct pressuring removal of a delinquent prosecutor was illegal or corrupt, Trump was concerned about Ukraine’s corruption in general.

On procedure, they’ve lied about the depositions (routinely used in investigations), claiming they violate “due process” or amount to a “Soviet-style” star chamber. Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-N.Y.) lied in claiming she was prevented from asking questions. (In fact, she was permitted time during the five-minute questions by members but the ranking Republican, Rep. Devin Nunes of California, was not permitted under rules of which she was familiar to yield some of his time in the 45-minute opening round.) Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) falsely claimed not producing the whistleblower violates Trump’s Sixth Amendment rights.

At times, Republicans deliberately ignore evidence in front of their eyes. They seem to have settled on the theory that Trump never communicated to Zelensky that aid was tied to investigations of Biden, Burisma and Trump’s crackpot Ukraine interference conspiracy. Trump, however, raised these items in the phone call (“I would like you to do us a favor though"), as we know from the rough transcription. (In transcripts of depositions we learn from multiple officials they were alarmed about injecting Trump’s political agenda into U.S. foreign policy.)

Trump also spoke to Sondland about the investigations, according to testimony, and in one instance was overheard by multiple State Department staffers. (Other officials testify that Sondland repeatedly claimed he was acting on Trump’s behalf and directly conditioned aid on the Biden investigation.)

Republicans’ lies are so numerous and obvious that one requires only a minimal amount of fact-checking to see that they lie because they have no truthful factual defenses nor valid constitutional argument. The facts are the facts: Trump conditioned aid to an ally in a war for its sovereignty on production of dirt to smear a political rival. He has refused to allow key witnesses to produce documents or to testify, thereby obstructing Congress. He has sought to intimidate and threaten witnesses including the whistleblower and Marie Yovanovitch, sending out the message you will be targeted and smeared if you provide evidence against him.

As for the Constitution, we know that “bribery,” enumerated as one of the grounds for impeachment in the parlance of the Framers, includes asking for or giving personal favors in exchange for political acts. That is precisely what occurred here. Obstruction and witness intimidation are obviously "high crimes."

House Republicans have become so invested in crackpot theories, bogus procedural complaints and constitutional illiteracy that they will never recognize the president’s wrongdoing. They are as incapable of upholding their oath, which requires impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors or bribery, as he is. Both Trump and his House enablers are unfit to serve since personal and political considerations obliterate their ability to detect the truth and thereby to uphold their public obligations. It would be refreshing if House Republicans simply admitted Trump violated his oath but that they are unwilling to abide by theirs and remove him. The candor would be preferable to the non-stop lying.

It remains an open question as to whether Senate Republicans are willing to ignore and distort reality so as to avoid voting to convict a president of their own party. Unfortunately, we find it highly unlikely that more than a few (if that many) would concede that Trump and the right-wing echo chamber that protects him have been spinning a web of lies for nearly three years.
By Jennifer Rubin. Mrs. Rubin is an American neoc... (show quote)


Lets just take a look at some of the proclaimed lies of the GOP:

The Trump lies relating to Ukraine are numerous and serious, although not delivered under oath. CNN fact-checker Daniel Dale has documented 45 Trump lies concerning Ukraine including:

Trump did not ask [Ukrainian President Volodymyr] Zelensky for anything on the call. (Trump asked Zelensky to look into former Vice President Joe Biden, look into a debunked conspiracy theory about Democratic computer servers, and speak with his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani and Attorney General William Barr.)

*****I don't think anyone ever said Trump didn't ask for anything on the infamous phone call; certainly not Trump. I believe THIS is a lie from the left.

Zelensky criticized former US ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch “out of the blue” on the call. (Trump brought up Yovanovitch first.) . . . .

******Out of the blue? She was under cutting the presidents foreign policy as if he can't determine foreign policy. That being said, out of the blue is an opinion and criticizing her is not a lie. She even admitted that the Obama foreign policy fell short of the military aid needed which has been provided by Trump. Once again, THIS is a lie of the left.

The whistleblower was “sooo wrong.” (The rough transcript and witness testimony have proven the whistleblower to have been highly accurate.) . . .

****I believe what was said was that the Whistle blower complaint was based upon nothing but second hand information. And it appears he was soooo wrong, but that is an opinion as well. The whistle blower believed Vindman who claimed Trump "demanded" something from the Ukraine president. Of course THAT is a lie. And saying the Whistle blower was soooo wrong is also NOT a lie, but more like an opinion.

Schiff might have been the whistleblower’s source. (This is nonsense. The whistleblower said in the complaint that information about the call came from “multiple White House officials with direct knowledge of the call.”)

*****Believeing Schiff to be the whistle blowers source is a belief, not a lie. Certianly Schiff is lying, our belief, about not knowing who the whistle blower is. Vindman as well, another of our beliefs, unless y'all want to claim taht only some aids in Schiff's office are the only one's who know who it is. That's laughable, but it is not a GOP lie to believe it to be so.

Other Trump lies include his denial that United States military aid was held up, his bizarre accusations that House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) was the whistleblower’s source and his unfounded allegations that former vice president Joe Biden “stole” millions of dollars from foreign countries and pressured Ukraine to fire a prosecutor when Hunter Biden was still under investigation.

*****Trump doesn't deny that military aid was held up, he merely maintains that is wasn't held up as part of a "bribe" as it's now called. We believe Schiff helped produce the whistle blower complaint. A Belief, not a lie. And, the belief that Biden has a corrupt relationship with Birisma is a belief, not a lie. (A criminal referral of the Bidens and Burisma to the Ukraine courts will soon shed some light on that, as well as our own investigation into it. No GOP lies here, just beliefs being now looked into; one of the things Trump asked Ukraine to look into and indeed, they seem to have found something.

House Republicans continually traffic in lies — e.g., Ukraine interfered with our election, Joe Biden’s conduct pressuring removal of a delinquent prosecutor was illegal or corrupt, Trump was concerned about Ukraine’s corruption in general.

*****Once again, our belief, not a lie. And, it's being investigated as well.

On procedure, they’ve lied about the depositions (routinely used in investigations), claiming they violate “due process” or amount to a “Soviet-style” star chamber. Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-N.Y.) lied in claiming she was prevented from asking questions. (In fact, she was permitted time during the five-minute questions by members but the ranking Republican, Rep. Devin Nunes of California, was not permitted under rules of which she was familiar to yield some of his time in the 45-minute opening round.) Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) falsely claimed not producing the whistleblower violates Trump’s Sixth Amendment rights.

****They certainly think they are right about this. Does this author of anyone on OPP actually know the rules of inquisitions like this?? Not a GOP lie, once again.

At times, Republicans deliberately ignore evidence in front of their eyes. They seem to have settled on the theory that Trump never communicated to Zelensky that aid was tied to investigations of Biden, Burisma and Trump’s crackpot Ukraine interference conspiracy. Trump, however, raised these items in the phone call (“I would like you to do us a favor though"), as we know from the rough transcription. (In transcripts of depositions we learn from multiple officials they were alarmed about injecting Trump’s political agenda into U.S. foreign policy.)

***Maybe he did and maybe he didn't. no proof was presented on that point so, once again, not a GOP lie.


You Trump haters throw out the word "lie' with utter abandon for what a lie is. Calling an opinion or a belief is, in fact, a LIE. Certainly they are not lies as the Trump haters seem to think or are lying about.

You also claim the GOP ignores evidence right in front of their faces? How about Biden and Burisma? Need I spell that out once again?? Maybe y'all actually think there is nothing corrupt there. I doubt it but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I would point out that one needs to be pretty naive to see that and not suspect corruption. And aren't you Trump haters accusing Trump of doing something akin to to the very same thing?? Oh yes, you guys think Trump was only looking for dirt on Biden. Sure, it does amount to that but is the president of the US supposed to turn a blind eye to possible corruption if it involves a democrat presidential cndidate; who, by the way was not a candidate when Giuliani started looking in to this possible corruption. Biden declared in April but Giuliani was investigating it way before that.

So Slatten and you Trump hating (I won't say liars), answer my questions and don't go saying you have answered them or can't remember what they are.

Do you honestly believe there is no corruption in the Biden/Burisma story? Do you honestly think Schiff and Vindman do not know the identity of the whistle blower? Do you honestly think the DNC and Clinton campaign were not using foreign powers to undermine the Trump campaign and later the Trump administration?

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Nov 25, 2019 11:51:46   #
Gatsby
 
eagleye13 wrote:
The dim's last ditch show restarts next week.
December 9?
That is some ditch they are digging themselves into.


Keep in mind that Horowitz concluded his investigation, before Barr & Durham went to Italy.

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Nov 25, 2019 12:16:57   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Gatsby wrote:
Keep in mind that Horowitz concluded his investigation, before Barr & Durham went to Italy.


Great point!

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Nov 25, 2019 12:57:07   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
Great point!


I cant wait until the Republicans put Adam Schiff,and the Bidens on the stand under oath!
Oh Happy Day!
https://youtu.be/PuZh_Arpn28

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Nov 25, 2019 12:59:46   #
JW
 
moldyoldy wrote:
Any e mail has a recipient, the feds check both ends. They get everything. Hard drives can be recovered after being erased


Not if the recipients won't turn them over or the hard drive has been erased with something like Bleach Bit or an old fashioned hammer as has been the case with Clinton.

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Nov 25, 2019 13:25:36   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
JW wrote:
Not if the recipients won't turn them over or the hard drive has been erased with something like Bleach Bit or an old fashioned hammer as has been the case with Clinton.


What Crowdstrike can do is provide all the information they had which they claimed allowed them to say that Russia hacked the DNC computer. If they have destroyed it, they might have violated federal law since it involved the DNC and gov officials/agencies. If they cannot produce their data, then their credibility is even more suspect.

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Nov 25, 2019 13:51:21   #
moldyoldy
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
What Crowdstrike can do is provide all the information they had which they claimed allowed them to say that Russia hacked the DNC computer. If they have destroyed it, they might have violated federal law since it involved the DNC and gov officials/agencies. If they cannot produce their data, then their credibility is even more suspect.


They are working for the RNC, they are supposed to be the best.

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Nov 25, 2019 14:19:27   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
moldyoldy wrote:
They are working for the RNC, they are supposed to be the best.


Crowdstrike gained notoriety in 2016 when the Democratic National Committee paid the company to investigate a hack of its server, which it determined emanated from Russia.

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Nov 25, 2019 14:21:08   #
emarine
 
Gatsby wrote:
Trump/Russian collusion was the greatest LIE of the century, and still liberals cling to it.

The only reason that Democrats are so obsessed with slinging mud is because they are

up to their eyeballs in their own mudholes. when they run out of mud, all that remains

is QUICKSAND. Don't forget to wave Goodbye.




Trump/Russian collusion was the greatest LIE of the century.[/quote... is it?... then why does the WH do everything it possibly can to obstruct Justice in trumps behalf... Jeff Sessions did the proper thing in recusing himself... trump couldn't deal with that in order to become above our law ... this subversion of the rule of law is what makes trump, trump... & it is subversion... trump undermines our rule of law to survive...

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Nov 25, 2019 14:44:00   #
Mikeyavelli
 
[quote=emarine]Trump/Russian collusion was the greatest LIE of the century.[/quote... is it?... then why does the WH do everything it possibly can to obstruct Justice in trumps behalf... Jeff Sessions did the proper thing in recusing himself... trump couldn't deal with that in order to become above our law ... this subversion of the rule of law is what makes trump, trump... & it is subversion... trump undermines our rule of law to survive...[/quote]

Yawn. 😩

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Nov 25, 2019 14:51:31   #
emarine
 
Mikeyavelli wrote:
Yawn. 😩





You drinking early today Mike?...

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