Anigav6969

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Caboose Loc: South Carolina

AMEN

vernon

because obama is the worst president for more reason thad i care to type maby tasine will answer it.

Jack2014

Mash be Jimmyboy you should realize that basically the US military command is republican laning to be kind. We've all heard ,I believe,of the difficulty that Truman had w Mccarthur, LBJ, w Westmorland, now we have seen first hand another repeat of generals know best when first McCrystal and then Petreuse committed treason by trying to secretly release Top secret info about the wars to reporters before critical presidential reviews. Then there was the women issues.
The point is that the military hasn't wanted to get out of either Iraq or Afghanistan. They want to retain a major presence in both country's as conquering barbarians. Where are the current Powell's and Swartzkoff's.?
Clark is reasonable but he's retired because he makes too much sense. Military commanders are supposed to determine and recommend and sell what is best for the country. It's all this lobbying, cost over-runs, $$$ in the military that's ruining it. Get back to basics and kick all lobbyists,mentors,contractors,consultants the hell out of the Pentagon.

This worked out really well didn't it? NOT


Still no answer RT-Pukes how much better?


Do you think that Putin took his direction from Bushie boy?

emarine

Bush is a nice guy but a puppet ....Cheney is pure evil.. Obama is a nice guy but naive ....Biden is a nice guy but useless.... it could be worse :lol:

Anigav6969

I'm not sure why I like this post so much....but I do :thumbup: :thumbup:

Blacksheep

None of them are nice guys, they're all evil shitstains. To a man.

angery american Loc: Georgia

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angery american Loc: Georgia

This is all old news....None of the liberal socialist democrats on this site will ever concede the fact that the war was POSSIBLY necessary And SUPPORTED by the majority of democrats in the house and senate......IT WILL ALWAYS BE BUSHES FAULT.....While all the while supporting the most unqualified piece of crap that has ever occupied the office of pres....While our country is on its way to destruction under his watch and the politicians who support OPUKO...

angery american Loc: Georgia

I see you fell the same way as I about OPUKO...Hes a piece of crap...

emarine

Touché douche

robert66

Bush should not have killed Osama Bin Ladens brother when he was down in Texas visiting them. This started everything and ww1 also.

jonhatfield Loc: Green Bay, WI

I guess I'm the odd man out on OPP in considering the Iraq War a necessary geopolitical move in the middle of the Middle East and that Nam Was equally a necessary geopolitical action in that time and circumstances. I didn't vote for Bush but liked him as President (despite disagreement on domestic policy as somewhat backward) as perhaps the humblest person to hold that office in my lifetime. I also approve of Barrack Hussein Obama, who like 'W' I see as trying to do his best in a more 'diplomatic' way for America and the free world. Yes, neither one's performance in office has been absolutely perfect but America and freedom aren't about perfection. ha. Politics in freedom and self-government America are somewhat smudgy, and geopolitics for the free world are equally iffy and dirty.If you don't like iff and often wobbly, go to one of the new fascist places and see whether you really want straight and narrow. ha.

I understand the extremes regarding disapproval of 'W' and 'O.' As a teenager I despised Truman. Sixty some years later I consider him one of the great Presidents. Oops, he did the Korean War...that makes him villain with some of the more far out keep-out-of-their-business nit-picker OPPers. Oops, he fired MacArthur and didn't carry the war to a total win, so he's down with the super-patriot crowd...and LBJ's Nam was a lost battle (but the dominoes didn't fall). Consider carefully before you choke on your indignations, where would the cause of freedom and self-government be if Korea, Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan and other geopolitical moves hadn't been? Yes, lots of contradictions, complications,ifs-and-&buts, mistakes, incompletes, losses, etc. but that's the nature of reality. The devil is in the details, but one also has to see the larger picture.

For example, slavery and the plantation system were wrong but they happened from circumstance of bringing the old manorial system to America--with time, place, and circumstances perverting the manor system to plantation system and slavery that took a civil war to end. No one's particular fault, although one could argue the issue should have been compromised or that the Southern states had a right to secede, and perhaps other arguments. Fortunate in larger picture the war was fought against secession and slavery ended...except the former slaves were not exactly ready for equal participation and 'separate but equal' (yeah, so equal...) segregation was the pragmatic practice...another wrong but not entirely anyone's fault in the time and circumstances. It's not as if a perfect solution was possible at the time and circumstances. Lincoln suggested facilitating emigration back to Africa (thus, Liberia). Segregation wrong but as good as there was until circumstances changed and 'integration' and full participation was workable. Even after the school desegregation decision, which occurred when I was in high school, I recall an Eleanor Roosevelt column in the Knoxville News Sentinel where she stated interracial marriage was a right and right but advised interracial couples not to have children because they would be discriminated against. What? ER actually said that?? That's what I thought at the time. I was a Michigander 'Yankee' in East Tennessee so committed to the idea of integration...(perhaps not so committed had I remained in Michigan? Turns out my native area had a record of Jim Crowism...irony) so I thought ER's advice a bit unprincipled. So? Eleanor Roosevelt, classic 'limousine liberal' who I regarded somewhat scornfully in youth's fanaticism, remains nevertheless still one of the great persons in our history as also Lincoln who would have sent as many freed slaves as possible back to Africa. Still great. (I wish I could say the same for the 'deport all the Mexs' idiots today but I see zero greatness there, just stupidity and bigotry...sorry about that, you small people). So slavery was a wrong, segregation a wrong, and many smaller wrongs from those circumstances still remaining but the larger picture is how the historical wrongs (a matter of the times and circumstances and 'pragmatics') coincidentally became the most distinctive triumph of the principle of equality from a state of extreme inequality...moreover from a state of color difference marking the social difference. Only in America equality on this scale with real fully sccepted status, key attributed social contributions and achievements--and, as with America's many integrated ethnicities, pride in ethnicity along with the full integration at same time. Continuing discriminations and injustices in some part from economic and social differences remain to be worked out and righted...and of course there are always the 'Mexifornian' neo-fascists who can't abide differences and would purge if they could all color from America and then the world.

We take equality for granted but the world sees black and white in America and brown and yellow and red as equal as the example and promise of a future world of equality without discrimination or rivalry or hostility (that is, without war, a world at peace). That is the larger reality that makes the incidence of our great wrongs from historical circumstances the occasion of perhaps our greatest accomplishment...that along with the revolution in the status of women and children accomplished by the Brit and American Victorians we take for granted but the world sees as aspiration for their future. Instead of appreciating achievements,the tendency on OPP is focus on and gripe and backbite about the remaining wrongs...but the world sees the bigger achievement in real equality that marks America, Britain, and the Free World despite all the remaining discriminations and injustices.

What's the point of this slavery then segregation example? We do not overcome at once but we need faith to carry on toward better despite continuing circumstances preventing full justice at once. Integration was 'with all deliberate speed,' not all at once. Overcoming the slavery wrong took place over more than two centuries. Overcoming serfdom and achievement of 'freedom and self-government' took several centuries and might not have happened without the Brits' special insular circumstances separate from the continent or without transplantation to the distant new world to develop...with many wrongs and injustices in the long way forward. British colonialism wasn't by our standards exactly politically correct, yet without it and its Commonwealth governments across the world, the Free World of today would be a small enclave, not a worldwide phenomenon.

So, 'W' as worst ever Prez because of Iraq? Really? We weren't working toward changing geopolitical situation in Middle East specifically in Iraq during the Clinton years? Barrack Obama as worst Prez because of wwwhaaattt???? What he's doing, what he's not doing? Oh, both, depending on your group-think party membership? Harp, harp, harp isn't going to get the world to freedom and peace or justice and is far from the angel chorus you righeousness mongers left and right think you're singing. You harpers strike only the low notes and are deaf to the larger orchestrations involved in geopolitics. I hadn't realized the extend to which OPP participation was almost exclusively indignant tone-deaf harpers. Yeah, I also see all the wrongs, mistakes, and injustices of America's past and present and no doubt future, but I try to see those in perspective of circumstances of past, present, AND FUTURE in progress toward universal freedom and self-government. I believe Afghanistan and Kazakistan and the other Central Asia nations whose names I can't spell should have equality and freedom and self-government just as Kansas, Iowa, Wyoming, Oklahoma do in the middle of our continent...just that how is it to happen? Well, we're working on it AND IT IS OUR BUSINESS AND PART OF THE FUTURE FOR THE FREE WORLD AND ESSENTIAL FOR THE FUTURE OF THOSE PEOPLES. And that's why we are in Afghanistan and back Ukraine.

The future is determined now and it's a matter of future Pyongyang or Seoul. We need to have soul and determination enough to move the world toward Seoul. Oops, did that idiot Bush say something to the effect that the choice was between the Free World and the Axis of Evil? And awkwardly claim that fifty years from then the world would realize what was accomplished in Iraq? Perhaps I'm just a dumb warmonger (that's what one anti-war ideologue OPP fanatic calls me) to be echoing the Prez I didn't and wouldn't vote for. Yep, and I almost voted for McCain because afraid Obama fail to act enough in the Middle East but finally decided Mc would go too far like Goldwater would have in Nam and MacArthur did in Korea. (I deny the reason I voted for O in '08 was because us Hatfields have a feud with any Mc. That rumor would be just another of those RWE nutcase story lines. And obviously I know all about nutcases since I am one.)

As to which Prez or two do I would nominate as worst, Andrew Jackson and Ronald Reagan are my main bugaboos, though I admit, even as much as I disagree with their viewpoints (discordant harp players both), they each made key contributions to America.

So why hasn't someone bashed Nixon as worst ever Prez? ...who would have been the first Prez ever removed from office if he hadn't resigned before the vote ousting him? So who else from our history would have made the deal with China that meant the end of international communism and isolation of Soviet Russia and inevitable dissolution of that evil empire?

Evil is evil and mistakes are mistakes and wrongs are wrongs and all must be defined and confronted in the end--our own bads that are our own to account for--but the intentions and larger issues need definition and appreciation also and the realities and interplay of circumstances, times and places and what is and isn't possible deserve attention for measured judgement. Measured judgement? On OPP? site of internet cranks and jerk trolls? huh? Well, I must admit I've learned a lot from the contrarian views of OPP cranks--for example, that I'm contrary and cranky too, maybe more so. ha.

Blacksheep

Only 10 pages? Why such a short post? It only took a minute and 30 seconds to scroll down it.

Who knows? Some people might even read it if you shorten it down to a single paragraph. Otherwise I wouldn't expect much.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

You are not the only one that don't like post like that.

I like much of what Jon has to say But post like that are to much for me to sort through.