PeterS wrote:
Please read the Bible? Read our constitution. We are a secular nation and have been one since our founding. We don't govern our nation by what the bible says and we never have. If someone is a homosexual what the bible says is completely irrelevant. And other than an exercise in futility why are we even entertaining the idea of homosexuality? If someone is a homosexual that is their business and no one else's. And if we are going to view this through the eye of religion than an omnipotent and omnipresent god would have known the sins of his creation before he even created them! So if god didn't want homosexuals he wouldn't have created them!!!
Please read the Bible? Read our constitution. We a... (
show quote)
So if the bible speaks of slavery to sin, or freedom from sin then that doesn't apply to our Constitution?
If the bible speaks about Murder, Stealing, or even false witnesses, that doesn't apply to the Constitution either, does it?
There are borders on freedom, so that the individual can flourish.
There are borders on restriction of freedom, so that the individual can flourish.
There are borders on religion and government so that society can flourish.
These borders should never be crossed, for crossing these borders causes all sorts of evil. Everywhere from bullying that causes prejudice, then discrimination and eventually racism.
Yet the progressives feel we should have freedom without responsibility.
That is the problem.
Ranger, should you kill a homosexual because they are homosexual? The answer to this question is no.
Ranger, should you kill a murderer because they murder? The answer to this question is yes.
Ranger, how do you find out whether or not the accused is guilty of the crime?
Through a legal and fair trial.
There are rules or borders so that a legal and fair trial can present the facts as we know them. How do we know the facts, we use reason. That reason has been developed by a secular thought process. For it is impossible to have a fair trial with conflicting ideologies through theology. Christians fight against Christians, Muslims fight against Muslims, and its well known that the Jews(Judah) fight against Jews(Samaritans). So to establish true Justice, it is right to find what is common amongst all three theologies.
Among what is common, is that all three religions believe in One God, and incidentally the same God. If you are mature you can understand, if you are not mature you will never understand.
Since they believe in the same God, the basic rules of the religions are similar--that is The Ten Commandments as explained by Moses.
For other religions, they have some form of the Ten Commandments which establishes ten basic rules to live by.
So lets break down the Ten Commandments for a minute:
1. Thou shalt not have any false gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make a carven image of a god, man or beast.
3. Thou shalt not take thy Lords Name in vain.
4. Thou shalt keep holy the sabbath Day.
These first three commandments concern Man and his relationship to God. This establishes a respect from Man to God. All three religions recognize this.
5. Honor thy Mother and Father
6. Thou shall not murder
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery
8. Thou shalt not steal
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
10. Thou shalt not covet.
These next five Commandments are commands that society needs in order to survive. They start with the family, then proceed to society. A healthy society will keep all ten of these commandments, a sick society will go against in one way or another these 10 commandments.
Now, the first four commandments concern the relationship man has with God. If this relationship is infringed upon by governments then the government is wrong. But when people exercising these four commandments are pushing their beliefs upon others, then that too is just like the government infringing upon the people. You can only follow these commandments through the freedom of the human condition, you cannot be forced to follow them. To do so is against God's will as well as the Constitution of the United States. You must be free of all distractions and come to your own conclusions.
If you are not free you cannot effectively decide anything. Whether or not you believe in God.
The next six commandments concern how we relate to each other.
By Honoring your mother and father, you will have a happy life.
By not committing murder, no man shall kill you. Now murder applies to the mind, body, and soul. However, the only one that can be proven physically is the murder of the body. Now there are also many ways to handle murder and many degrees of murder. Christians above Jews and Muslims, provide an avenue of forgiveness for Murder. For the Jews Murdered Jesus Christ, which freed humanity from Sin. You may look at that statement as anti-Semitic, but in reality, Jews are heroes, in the fact that, through the murder of the Son of God, Man can be forgiven.
Thou shalt not commit adultery, helps keep the distraction of human desire which causes the breaking of all these commandments, to stop. It protects the family. It keeps the family together, and builds fidelity of society. It builds upon the functions of a man and the functions of a woman, to create the image of God. Through the image of God, the family unit is secure and holds the true power of society... all societies. Homosexuality destroys this function as an act against nature. This is why Homosexuality is a sin. However, it is not right to kill a homosexual. Although the sinner, the homosexual, is powerless over their emotions, as the homosexual finds God through reason, the homosexual evolves from sinner to saint. This is the hope of Christians, however other religions, like the Jews and Muslims don't exercise this type of forgiveness.
Now, let me stop right here before continuing on to the other rules of a healthy society. Using reason based upon ancient knowledge, all Sin is equal before the eyes of God. Since all sin is equal before the eyes of God, then a murderer and a homosexual, a person who dishonors their father and mother, the Blasphemer, the one who does not honor the sabbath, all committed the same crime, they sinned against God. By Sinning against God, you sin against your fellow man, that is the covenant that was made between God and Man.
If you break the sin of stealing, lying, coveting, you are also a sinner, equal with the sinner described above.
If you break any of the commandments, you engage in all the phobias, racism, slavery, etc. By breaking any of these commandments, you injure your fellow human being, either physically, mentally, or spiritually. And when you break the commandments you enslave your fellow humans, to the point that anger is risen against you. The best form of punishment for all these sins is exile.
Through exile, the human person returns to their senses and can thus repent of the sins they committed. And under the fear of being alone, the human person develops a sense of repentance, and through repentance, hate is replaced with love. This forms redemption and forgiveness.
In Christ's prayer, "Forgives our trespasseses as We forgive those who trespass against us."
When you injure a person, if that person can forgive you then God can forgive you. The breaking of any Commandment injures someone, even if you don't know it. Until the injured person can forgive you, then God can't forgive you. If society determines that you are forgiven, then God will forgive you.
Now. Society created certain rules, among these rules are rights that protect you from sinning against your neighbor. Society created rules to reinforce the Ten Commandments. Among these rights is freedom of speech, right to assemble, the right to religion and the practice thereof, the right to bear arms, the right to have a fair trial, the right not to be torchered, the right to not speak for the purpose of being self-incriminated, the right to not be enslaved. The right to stand against tyranny. And I also agree with the right to be forgotten.
The right to be forgotten is a new concept. But the way it would work, is if I committed a sin, and paid my penance for that sin, and was forgiven, I have a right that my past sins, be forgotten.
Now, in law we don't have that yet, but in Law we prohibit certain acts that cause injury. That act in religious terms is called sin. If you break the law, you sin.
Just because you sin, or break the law, does not mean that you can't be forgiven. And to eliminate Religion which is inseparable from the human person, is to eliminate all sense of forgiveness.
Justice through faith and reason is called wisdom.