skott Loc: Bama

According to you conservatives on this sight, if I can find it in the bible then it must be good. Well I have a problem with that. It's called slavery. The bible seems to be for it. It tells us how to treat our slaves. I think our society has changed in the last few thousand years and slavery is evil. How can you love others as you love yourself, and be allowed to sell their children. Maybe the bible should not be our only source for morality.

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't believe most of us think the only source for morality is the Bible. But a goodly number of us think the Bible is a good source for morality, and personally I believe that morality, which I sometimes incorrectly term "Christianity", is the glue that held our country together for a couple of centuries. Now that so much corruption and evil has taken hold, our country is in its death throes. In other words, we are our worst enemy when we negate morality. We are destroying ourselves - not with poor eating habits, not with dangerous stunts, not with no health care, but with debauchery and sleaze.

Caveat: I am a conservative, not a Republican, and I am not a church goer or a Bible reader.

skott Loc: Bama

I am a liberal, not a dem, I am a church goer and I do read the bible. You once told me I wasn't Christian. But since I believe Christ was our savior, I am, and what you say doesn't affect that.

My question is about weather or not the only source of information that we use to make laws and judgments should be the bible. I don't think so, because the bible was written in a completely foreign time and place.
Speaking to a woman at another village is totally immoral, I don't think so. Women like you having a say in politics, the bible wasn't for it, but I am. I realize the world changes, the bible is stuck in time. By the way I'm a Catholic. I think it is a travesty that women don't really have a say in the church.

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Slavery is not a thing of the past. We have slavery here in the United States. Most countries have slavery. Wherever there is a GOVERNMENT, slavery exists. Governments make slaves of the citizens. We are allowed to do whatever the government says we can do. We can be imprisoned for doing something the government says we may NOT do. No citizen gets to vote on IRS regulations, but disobeying those regs can land you in prison. No citizen gets to vote on EPA regs, but government can imprison you for not bowing to those regs. What makes you think slavery is not alive and well? Here in the United States?

bobgssc

I don't think too many Christians would believe in slavery. The old testament was "fulfilled" by the coming of Jesus Christ and other than the ten commandments (Of which Jesus said loving God and loving your neighbors was the most important), "the old has passed away". The old testament was basically a book of 6000 rules given to the Jews because they couldn't accept freedom. Unfortunately, too many Christians forget that they were "saved by Grace" and are supposed to live this way, including not judging others since they weren't judged. Of course, you can find plenty of instances where this isn't true (like the Baptist church who runs around with the hate filled signs at public gatherings), but they are just broken people who really don't understand grace and love. If anyone follows my responses, he/she can figure out that I do hit people who are being ugly regardless of their beliefs, but I REALLY try to beat up on judgmental Christians simply because I hate being grouped with them.

Edit: back to the point of this thread, the old testament addressed things which were occurring at the time. Moses gave the people the petition for divorce. God hated divorce but it kept occurring so Moses (as God's speaker) gave the people a decree of divorce simply so it could all be tracked. Slavery was just part of life so God gave rules regarding their fair treatment... he never said slavery was good.
Also, remember in the new testament, Jesus didn't hang out with the Billy Grahams of the day, he hung with the prostitutes and tax collectors (the most corrupt people of that generation), but never said they were good.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

That is an interesting point.

skott Loc: Bama

I try to throw the judgments back at them. I keep hearing about being mean to gays is supported by the bible. Jesus told us to love each other as we love ourselves. How many of us thinks its good to discriminate against ourselves? How many of us write laws against ourselves?

MrEd Loc: Georgia

You may call slavery bad or anything else you want to call it, but it is alive and well today just as it was 2,000 years ago. I don't mean to imply that I am for slavery, because I am not, but that does not mean it is not as much a part of our world today as it was then.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maybe you should try a non-Catholic church. Women have a say in most Protestant churches. And while I grew up in the Methodist Church, I never heard that speaking to a woman in another village was sinful, verboten, or anything else.

If you are a Christian, then I assume you believe the Bible to be the word of God. The Bible may be of another time, but God isn't, wasn't, and will never be "stuck" anywhere. How do you square that with calling yourself a Christian? Not criticizing, just curious. I find many people here on 1PP to be without foundation, without principles for living. And I think this leaves them to be without a rudder to make it through bad times and to see less of good times. Again, not criticizing, just stating my observations and conclusions.

I believe that people are hurting for leadership - leadership they can rely on, can trust. I believe we have been lead to distrust almost everything we have ever relied on. I believe we must be strong in our beliefs, whatever they may be, because without that, there is NOTHING on which we can rely. And the human condition cries for trust in a world that has destroyed trust.

Secret Alchemist Loc: Carthage, TX

What I find interesting about this is that many Christians find it easy to disavow slavery and the treatment of women in the Old Testament but not the treatment of gays. Why should I be any more offended by homosexuals than I am by people eating beef on Friday since both are condemned in the Old Testament?

MrEd Loc: Georgia

"Also, remember in the new testament, Jesus didn't hang out with the Billy Grahams of the day, he hung with the prostitutes and tax collectors (the most corrupt people of that generation), but never said they were good."

Why would God hang out with the Billy Grahams when it was the sinners that needed his help. That's why he hung out with those corrupt people you are talking about.

As for slavery, God allowed HIS people to fall into slavery once they became corrupted themselves. He finally did remove them from slavery, but for quite some time they were slaves.

He allows slavery today simply because he allows us freedom of thought and we are required to make up our own minds on how we live our life. God tells us how we should live, but it is up to us to live it according to his rules. We don't have to and he is not forcing us to, but if we don't follow his rules, we will pay in the end.

"Of course, you can find plenty of instances where this isn't true (like the Baptist church who runs around with the hate filled signs at public gatherings), but they are just broken people who really don't understand grace and love."

You can pervert anything, including a church or religion (Islam). Just because there are people that pervert something does not give you the right to do the same in God's eyes. God requires us to follow his rules, but he does not force them on us. We are still free to make up our own minds as to what we want to do. If that leads to perversion, then that is not his fault, but your own.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Times change. At the time the bible was written, slavery was an acceptable normal part of life. God did not create us to stagnate in our growth. He made us with the ability to think, to mature, and evolve in his love. Had He intended for us to stay primitive, then he would have created us without the ability to discern good from evil. But, he created us with free will, ability to think and reason, the ability to grow and understand His laws. We are still children, we have not learned everything and still have much growing to do. In a thousand years, do you think that it is possible for humans to look back on this time and ponder how barbaric it is to wage war? How about advancement in medicine, do you think that we will develop ways to cure diseases such as Aids and consider our present methods as akin to practicing witchcraft? Do you think that they may think that abortion may be considered a horrendous act committed against children or even might see it as primitive sacrifice to a god called selfishness? And might it be possible that many of the laws and taxes we endure may be viewed as a form of slavery?

skott Loc: Bama

That was about Jesus getting water at a well by a girl from a different tribe. It was considered sinful. It's hard to read the bible if you think it talks about today, when the meanings were different when it was written. That's the strong suit of the Catholic church. I was Baptist growing up. I was told drinking was not allowed, and dancing was not allowed. Neither of those are scriptural.
I have plenty of principles. They just may be different than yours. Honesty is a principle for me, I am just too honest for most people. I believe that science tends to fit with the bible, its not against it unless you are misinterpreting it. I believe that politically we should work together instead of acting like our country works best when everyone is just for themselves. What are your principles?

skott Loc: Bama

Hey forgot one of my favorite principles: You don't judge yourself when you die, God does.