1OldGeezer wrote:
Bruce,
I know this expresses only one side of the argument but thought you might want to see it..
1Old_Geezer it is getting harder and harder to continue to post, on this site. This post will be two fold and will explain what I mean about it being harder to post, anymore. As much as you, Loki, saloopo and I argue, I've started to like you guys. Now don't get me wrong, I will never be anything but a "Liberal". I will never change my political philosophy. It may be tweaked from time to time but will never be aligned with the Conservative political way of thinking. I care too much about humanity to become that selfish. But my point is this, do you remember when we were younger and we had differences with individuals, (and this is a "male" thing only, at least for me), and eventually things would come to a boiling point and you would end up fighting, with your adversary? But after you were done punching each other out, you actually became friends. I don't know what the phenomena was, but I suspect you kind of gained a respect, for one another. That is kind of how I feel, on this forum. We argue, but after so much animosity we end up breaking the tension, a little, by sending non confrontational posts, like the "Three Stooges" posts. So maybe the topics have been worn out or we've said everything we have to say about our positions. Or we realize we are never going to change. But whatever it is I'm no longer in the adversarial mood. Again, that doesn't mean I've changed my political philosophy one iota, I am and will always be a "Liberal"
Now having said that I am going to address one last thing, that will put us at odds once again. But this the last time. And what I am going to address, is your post. Here is how I see using Mexico, as an example, we should use, here in the U.S., to justify enacting, "Voter ID" laws. First of all I can't help but notice the hypocrisy, of this defense, by Conservatives. Now bear with me, on this analogy. Conservatives continually attack the notion of "Universal Health Care". Liberals continually ask the question why can't the U.S. be like the rest of the "civilized" world and provide "Universal Health Care", to it's citizens? Conservatives immediately respond by saying the U.S. is not, nor should be, like "Socialist" Europe. If a Liberal uses, "Universal Health Care" provided by Sweden, to it's citizens, as an example of why the U.S. should provide, the same care, here in the U.S., Conservatives immediately accuse Liberals of trying to turn this country into a "Socialist" state. Yet now, when Conservatives want "Voter ID" laws, in this country, (and we all know what the real reason they want these laws for, and it isn't for protection against 'Voter Fraud'), they use an example of one of the most corrupt governments, on earth, as an example, we in the U.S., should follow. That doesn't make sense. Heck Conservatives want desperately to build a 8,000 ft. high wall along every inch of the U.S./Mexico border, to separate the two countries. (And yes I know I exaggerated there). So on one hand when Liberals use other countries as examples, to support their positions, on issues, they are guilty of trying to turn the U.S. into a "Socialistic" state. Yet when Conservatives use examples of other countries, the U.S. should follow their examples, blindly.
Here's why Mexico is such a poor example. Voting, in this country, is what sets us apart from the world. Oh, I know much of the "Free World" and "Civilized" World votes, but no country, prior to the creation of the United States of America allowed it's citizens to vote, at least to my knowledge. So the U.S. set the bar for democracy, by allowing it's citizens to vote and elect it's leaders. A big deal was made when the U.S. took over Iraq and provided for it's citizens to vote. Remember the "ink on the thumb", to show that and Iraqi citizen had voted? So, at least in our minds, voting is essential to democracy. Well voting in Mexico was, and still may be, a sham. It was, at one time, and may still be, like the votes the old Soviet Union held, and like the votes Russia, holds today. You can vote for whomever you choose, but rest assured the winner, of the election, is decided before, the first vote is cast. Quick story, I lived in San Diego for twenty years, so we got to see Mexican politics up close and personal. I believe it was the PRC that was the ruling party, for decades, I don't know how long they had been in power, but you can bet no other party was going to gain control, of the government. And then in the 80s, I'm not sure of the exact dates, a young man, named Colisio (sp), offered a lot of promise and change to Mexican politics. He was very much liked by the Mexican people. So much so, Mexican papers were predicting him to win the Presidential election. Well the PRC would have none of that, so one day Colisio was campaigning in Tijuana and on live television, a man walked up to Colisio and shot him in the back of the head. You'll never guess what happened next, the PRC won the Presidential election, democracy averted. And Conservatives use this country as an example of why the U.S. should have "Voter ID" laws!? Another cute story concerning Mexico and what a wonderful example they should be, to the world. The U.S. government and Mexico decided to improve relations and combat crime that occurs between the two countries. Obviously between border towns, such as Tijuana. So the Mexican press decided to do a story about this new pact between the U.S. and Mexico and how they were going to cooperate, with each other, to clean up crime. One of the major crimes committed was the theft of U.S, vehicles, by Mexican citizens. So here is the local Mexican TV station doing a story about the U.S./Mexico pact and they sent out their cameraman and a reporter, to a local police station, to add color to the story. And what you see in the news story is astonishing, the cameraman is filming the police station, in the background, but in the foreground is the police station parking lot, and what do you think they find, a lot of stolen U.S. vehicles. So, for me, it is hard to take the example of Mexico, as a bastion of democracy. But kind of points out the hypocrisy of Conservatives. Mexico is used as an example for why we should have "Voter ID" laws, but Europe is an example of how Liberals are trying to turn the U.S. into a "Socialistic" state.
And ultimately if you want to really point out the hypocrisy, of a Conservative, this is the "end of conversation", "end of story" moment. You readers have been reading over and over how "WE NEED THESE VOTER ID LAWS" to protect our democracy against "Voter Fraud". "OMG, pass these laws NOW!!!". Conservatives incessantly tell you that you NEED IDs for buying alcohol, driving a car, etc. But mention, just once, how we need "Gun Registration", in this country and it's like you've blasphemed against God. They won't even say a word about that. We NEED to protect our country against "VOTER FRAUD", but we don't need to protect children, in our schools. And if you let these hypocrites start to argue, that "Gun Registration" will not end shootings, in our schools, malls, theaters, military bases, just let them know that "Voter ID" laws will not end "Voter Fraud".
I'm out.