Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

I have found you to be one of the friendlier, more civil members here...
And at times we have all been proven wrong...
The true test is to admit it...
(I usually stomp around cursing under my breatj for a few minutes before posting a retraction or admittance of faulty reasoning )

Common_Sense_Matters

No, alt-right to claim that they have been tapped when that myth was debunked long ago, there were no wire taps at Trump tower.

Common_Sense_Matters

No, it was proven that Trump tower was NOT tapped when no taps were found. I believe that he made that claim either because he personally knew that there was communication between his campaign and Russian interests or that someone within the campaign suggested to Trump that he thought the lines were tapped due to the FBI having information that the person thought could only have come from tapping Trump tower lines. Either way, no taps were found though almost immediately after the investigation started is when Trump went on his tirade claiming the Democrats tapped Trump tower lines, in any case, that myth was debunked when it no taps were discovered.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

This might be a question better posed to Seth...
But how does one prove one was tapped?
Is it a physical device?
Or is it simply the agency claiming that they didn't tap the tower?

proud republican Loc: RED CALIFORNIA

Prove it wasnt tapped...Words are cheap,CSM!!!...Where is your proof??

maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee

Here's the quandary...I don't believe that the Obama ordered wire tap was a legitimate investigation because Obama denied it, AND the wire tap was illegal. Never...ever...has it come to light that a sitting president ordered an illegal wire tap on a presidential candidate or had loyal followers be a plant in the president elects cabinet.
Also I'm not alt right, BTW. You believe that you seek the right sources and what you find is correct, and I feel the same way. I DO watch Lester Holt, IMO is as crooked as a dogs hind leg, for my liberal views, and sometimes I can watch a little of CNN, but not for long as they ARE the hate wagon.
The question is who says that your "facts" are correct and mine are not, and vice versa, who says that my "facts" are right and yours are wrong. We each have to believe what we trust in our hearts is true.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Being labeled is obnoxious...
I have never viewed you as alt-right... More of an alright sort of fella

Common_Sense_Matters

Look it up, even Devin Nunes, you know, the Republican house member that provided information on an investigation on Trump to Trump's administration, a clear no-no, a true Trump supporter, He even admitted that there was no wire tapping of Trump towers. Of course right after he delivered that report to Trump, Trump used that report to claim that he was vindicated, that Trump towers WAS actually bugged.

https://www.redstate.com/jaycaruso/2017/03/19/intelligence-committee-chairman-nunes-trump-tower-not-physically-wiretapped-video/

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2017-03-15/devin-nunes-no-evidence-to-back-donald-trumps-wiretapping-claims

Two conservative news sources to confirm my claim, since we know if it doesn't come from right wing sources, obviously it is "fake news". The Redstate article is the newer of the 2 and more detailed since more details were known by it's print time than the article from 4 days earlier in the USnews article.

The article I read, dated one day later, I won't bother showing you that one, it is obviously "fake news" since it was a center-left news source. It had even more detail and Devin Nunes explaining about the fact that actual Trump tower communications having actually been "trapped" and Trump campaign officials having been "unmasked" due to the communications haven taken place with a person of interest under surveillance, oops, they should have been more selective of who they talked with huh? Of course that is "fake news" since it is from a center-left news source.


I love how many (if not ALL) "righties", they so readily believe anything that fits their narrative, if it doesn't, that is the only time they seem to demand proof. Me, I prefer proof if the story comes off as "too juicy" period. I will admit, I too am picky about what sources I will acknowledge as real, I only like more centered sources, left, right, I don't care much as long as they are more "centered", ALL other sources MUST be fact checked, PERIOD!

Common_Sense_Matters

Again with the propaganda, do your research, THERE WAS NO WIRE TAP ON TRUMP TOWER, PERIOD! Ditch your current source of information, you are being fed LIES! When I get the FACTS from multiple RELIABLE sources, then yeah, they are FACTS. Simple litmus test for you, if the headline/content of article seem too salacious, it is probably LIES! Truth tends to be more mediocre and tame. There are exceptions to EVERY rule but it is usually a pretty good rule of thumb. No, Madonna didn't have Elvis' love child, Michael Jackson died, he wasn't abducted by aliens, Jimmy Hoffa is very likely dead.

Common_Sense_Matters

Do you see what I am dealing with? Can you see why I get frustrated to the point that I just start lashing out at all these people pushing conspiracy theory? By the way, do you see center-right media pushing these conspiracy theories? Nope, it is alt-right media that pushes them, since Maximus is hitting on all these alt-right conspiracy theories, I think it is safe to assume that they get their information from alt-right sources and are themselves likely alt-right as well.

Ricktloml

Donald Trump got the terminology wrong. Obama did not wire tap Trump, but he did start a foreign intelligence investigation under false circumstances to spy on the Trump campaign. Obama's operatives and appointees in his weaponized intelligence and law enforcement agencies presented fraudulent evidence to a FISA court in order to surveil Trump associates and have access to the Trump campaign. So no Obama didn't wire tap Trump at Trump tower, (although I believe he did wire tap Paul Manafort, who lived in Trump Tower.) So there was definitely spying on the Trump campaign by the Obama administration, only it wasn't wire tapping. What it was , was the worst case of corruption and abuse of power by a sitting president against a political enemy, and it is ongoing

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

To my knowledge Trump's campaign was surveilled by the past administration...
I believe that Trump's original tweet about this used quotation marks around the term 'tapped'...
Not a conspiracy theory.. Although people often mix up the terminology...

Do you believe that the past Administration surveilled Teump and his campaign?

And no... I can't see why you would lash out...
Maximus has been nothing but civil to you (on this thread at least) and has offered his opinion and understanding of the facts...
I watch only Fox and MSNBC (both rarely) But I have heard of these incidents... Articles I usually end up doing more research, But the tapping of Trump tower was not one of the topics that evoked my interest...

Common_Sense_Matters

No, I do not, even Trump's claim that Obama tapped Trump tower was proven false and no other valid allegations have surfaced so... No, I have no reason to think that they did.



I typically watch neither of those two, neither can be taken at face value, BOTH must be fact checked. While Maximus has been quite civil... It is like they have a Gatling gun and that Gatling gun is loaded with a bandolier and that bandolier is loaded with propaganda, conspiracy theories and lies, all the various right wing rhetoric and I no sooner shoot down one fallacy and they fire off another at me, they never seem to fact check any of the right wing rhetoric, they just take it all as fact and go about spreading these salacious rumors to everyone that will listen to that rhetoric. How do we combat the constant barrage of disinformation if so many are passing it out like candy? The more people hear these lies, the more they believe they MUST be true if so many people "know" them to be true.

Is it too much to ask that people do their due diligence and check the validity of these salacious rumors BEFORE handing them out as fact? I will say this though, at least Maximus has the decency to investigate if you call them on it, that is much more than I can say for the majority of those passing these salacious rumors out as if they were facts. I am one that prefers discussing truths and facts. Many truths and facts can be seen differently by honest people because it is all in one's interpretation of the given facts as for what they will believe that the facts tell them, but at least it is facts that you are dealing with, not salacious rumors.

I understand that I am a rare breed, I am one that seems to be more affected by lies than others. I just wish everyone would be more interested in facts and truths than most seem to be. If a story seems "too good to be true" it likely is, the best thing to do is if it comes off as too "juicy" investigate it before passing it along, one is less likely to come off as a fool if they resist the urge to promote lies.

Seth

A/V surveillance technology today is far more advanced than what they show in the movies, and unless you have access to a tech person who is on top of it, some of what's out there simply can't be found.

As far as news reports go that Trump Tower was never tapped, who is going to tell the media that it was?

The Bureau, tapping a presidential candidate without a FISA warrant? I doubt those involved would commit occupational suicide or worse by telling the media about it.

The CIA? Not only operating, against their charter, domestically, but spying on a presidential candidate? That's one agency whose people definitely won't 'fess up to something like that.

The bit about their having suspicions about Trump "colluding" with the Russians prior to Steele's and Fusion GPS' involvement did not come about, contrary to what was posted above, independently of the Obama Administration.

Obama and Hillary were the originators of all of it. Whether our "reasonable, impartial, just happens to conclude in every instance that the Democrats are pure of heart and Trump is the epitome of evil" friend comes up with thirty seven "unimpeachable" news stories or not, the corruption and skullduggery that took place under Obama, which included the weaponization of the Bureau, the Agency and the IRS are fact.

Some of this I get from my own media research, available to anyone and which we've all no doubt seen, some of it from a couple of federal types I know professionally, our conversations on the topic concluding, essentially, in "don't tell anyone you got it from me."

Whether Mr. Centrist-Whose-Conclusions-Always-Find-Trump-To-Be-Wrong wants to acknowledge the truth or stay with the portside line is immaterial, a juncture has been reached in American affairs at which we were at the brink of having Obama's fundamental change alter our future indelibly (there was a lot of globalist money involved in getting good old "Barry" into the Oval Office), and a Hillary Clinton presidency was needed to finish what Obama began. Obama's motivation was equal parts political dogma and money, Hillary's was a mixture of money and power.

The MSM, no longer much more than political shills for the left, studiously avoided reporting on Hillary's pay-to-play antics as SecState and ignored anything that might have told the truth about the corrupt, essentially anti-America nature of the Obama Administration and the various ethics-based discrepancies within, but it was the single most corrupt and seditious administration in U.S. history, and the media, who would have piled on a Republican administration (remember Watergate?) for far less, emulated the three chimps (see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil).

What it all boils down to is that for individuals who backed Obama/Clinton, it was a high stakes game with a lot to lose, given the groundwork completed under Obama (the polarization of the citizenry, the chaos Obama and minions had created, through villification of police and identity politics in the inner cities, the complete control-by-corruption of our federal law and tax enforcement arms and our intelligence agencies, etc). A Trump presidency was the only thing that stood between winning or losing their end game.

The attacks on Trump were multiple, from the Russia Collusion to branding him a racist, an opportunist using the White House for later personal gain, several kinds of 'phobe, "for the rich," and it was all lies, delivered with the help of an irresponsible media.

Trump's intentions, unlike those of many career politicians, are actually driven by patriotism and the will to get America back on track. His ego (no one ever accused him of being modest) works in our favor because he is self motivated to win, to have a legacy that goes down as great in the history books.

Unlike Obama, Trump is straight up -- he has nothing to hide about his agendas, tells us what he's doing and why and doesn't mince words.

The media hates the fact that he talks to the public more via Twitter than via them, because they actually believe that they hold some sort of relevance after proving that they can't be trusted to deliver unbiased, accurate reports.

We rarely see Sarah Huckabee Sanders doing press briefings any more because they're a waste of time, just a crowd of smirking liars firing questions geared towards biased and misleading "reports" containing heavily edited, cherry picked, anti-Trump "information."

For anyone who's dealt in investigation and report writing on any serious level, literally ferreting out facts and inconsistencies, it's a slam dunk that Trump is the good guy in the quagmire of today's politics.

Rose42

Arrogance, pride and ego are not rare. Neither is constantly disparaging others. You believe you use the best sources but fail to see that sometimes your thinking is narrow.