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President says on Fox News he should be fired for government shutdown
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Dec 23, 2018 22:41:49   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
rumitoid wrote:
It is not a false premise. Please listen: "I would build a great wall, and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me, and I’ll build them very inexpensively. I will build a great great wall on our southern border and I’ll have Mexico pay for that wall." Promise: the Wall will be paid for by Mexico, not your tax dollars. Build the wall and Mexico pays is one promise. And it was breached. Simple. It can't be clearer.


The false premise refers to your earlier example of a friend and house repairs...

Agreed... Trump made those statements.... Very well... Agreed...

That doesn't mean that those who support the wall only did so on the basis of Mexico paying for it... Or that the price is too steep... I for one never believed that Mexico would pay... He (Trump) made a promise and has been unable to keep it.. Such is life... I still believe the wall is necessary and am glad he (Trump) has not abandoned it...
If we were to stone every politician (or average citizen) who failed to keep a promise then we would cease to function as a society...

(Sorry for the lack of polish in the above post... Am writing on a crowded bus and am not in my best form)

Reply
Dec 23, 2018 22:55:23   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
I can see the irony of the post...
Politics gave become polarized...
I hope he does own the shutdown...

I (personally) did not find the racism that you appeared to interpret from his words...
"the racist comments that Mexican immigrants are "criminals and people who have lots of problems and drugs""...
Firstly , he didn't name any one nation , or people...
Secondly , the issue is these individuals crossing the borders ate not immigrants (in the legal sense of the word) , but are criminals by the actions they commit..
Thirdly , I can't find any country that wishes those kinds of people in it's population... How is it racist to prevent the egress of criminal elements into one's community?

An interesting reminder of past claims...
Thank you for the post and Merry Christmas
I can see the irony of the post... br Politics gav... (show quote)


Incredible, isn't it!? We don't want drugs coming in. Racist. We don't want criminals coming in. Racist!!

It would be nice if they'd actually learn what is and is not racism.

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Dec 23, 2018 23:00:17   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
Airforceone wrote:
Oh so past presidents that were invovled with shut downs makes it Okay for Trump to shutdown the government. Do you have any idea how all the past shutdowns came from or do you just think because past administrations did it then it’s okay for this buffoon.

To shutdown our government for not getting tax payer funds for a useless wall that nobody wants that Mexico was suppose to pay for.
The United States foreign aid to Mexico averages $300 million per year, this amount targets assistance for 10 programs the Mexican government is supposed to be implementing, including International Narcotics & Law Enforcement, In-Country Counternarcotics Program, Violence Prevention program (JVP), and 7 others. Yet, where are the results? What is Mexico doing to reduce crime and interdict drug and human trafficking? Mexico is 20th on the list of nations with the highest crime rates. Narcotics and drugs coming into the US from Mexico, Central and South America are all smuggled through Mexico. We give Mexico more than any other country and what do we get? A flood of illegals and drugs. Helluva deal.

The US GAO took data from 3 national studies on the costs of illegal immigration and published its findings: All three national studies concluded that illegal aliens in the United States generate more in costs than revenues to federal, state, and local governments combined.

According to research by the Center for Immigration Studies on the Cost of a Border Wall vs. the Cost of Illegal Immigration, the fiscal burden on American taxpayers is $75,000 for each and every illegal. The number of illegals in the US is near 12 million, most of whom are on some sort of welfare program. You do the math. If that is possible.

CIS Key Findings

There is agreement among researchers that illegal immigrants overwhelmingly have modest levels of education — most have not completed high school or have only a high school education.

There is also agreement that immigrants who come to America with modest levels of education create significantly more in costs for government than they pay in taxes.

A recent NAS study estimated the lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) of immigrants by education. Averaging the cost estimates from that study and combining them with the education levels of illegal border-crossers shows a net fiscal drain of $74,722 per illegal crosser.

The above figures are only for the original illegal immigrants and do not include any costs for their U.S.-born descendants. If we use the NAS projections that include the descendants, the fiscal drain for border-crossers grows to $94,391 each.

This means that for each 100,000 illegal immigrants stopped or deterred by a wall, the saving to taxpayers would be nearly $7.5 billion.

If a border wall prevented 160,000 to 200,000 illegal crossings (excluding descendants) in the next 10 years it would be enough to pay for the estimated $12 to $15 billion cost of the wall.

Newly released research by the Institute for Defense Analyses (IDA) done for the Department of Homeland Security indicates that 170,000 illegal immigrants crossed the border successfully without going through a port of entry in 2015. While a significant decline in crossings from a decade ago, it still means that there may be 1.7 million successful crossings in the next decade. If a wall stopped just 9 to 12 percent of these crossings it would pay for itself.

If a wall stopped half of those expected to successfully enter illegally without going through a port of entry at the southern border over the next 10 years, it would save taxpayers nearly $64 billion — several times the wall’s cost.


The effectiveness of a border wall has already been proven in the San Diego area and elsewhere, walls have reduced illegal border crossings by as much as 95%.

Build the damned wall, who gives a shit who fronts the money, at the rate things are going, the wall would pay for itself in one year.

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Dec 23, 2018 23:33:07   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
Incredible, isn't it!? We don't want drugs coming in. Racist. We don't want criminals coming in. Racist!!

It would be nice if they'd actually learn what is and is not racism.


I would like to echo that last sentence...
It seems that the definition of racism changes to suit the argument at hand...
Racism is a real (and in my opinion undignified) issue in the US (as well as every other country I can think of)...
It should no more be frivously bandied about then allegations of rape or assault...
I am more than willing to discuss the pros and cons of the wall... There are many... Economic / Environmental / International / Practical (to name a few)... But I (personally) do not appreciate it when false allegations of racism are leveled at me for my support of the wall...

Reply
Dec 24, 2018 00:11:51   #
rumitoid
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
The false premise refers to your earlier example of a friend and house repairs...

Agreed... Trump made those statements.... Very well... Agreed...

That doesn't mean that those who support the wall only did so on the basis of Mexico paying for it... Or that the price is too steep... I for one never believed that Mexico would pay... He (Trump) made a promise and has been unable to keep it.. Such is life... I still believe the wall is necessary and am glad he (Trump) has not abandoned it...
If we were to stone every politician (or average citizen) who failed to keep a promise then we would cease to function as a society...

(Sorry for the lack of polish in the above post... Am writing on a crowded bus and am not in my best form)
The false premise refers to your earlier example o... (show quote)


Okay.

Reply
Dec 24, 2018 00:19:19   #
rumitoid
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
The United States foreign aid to Mexico averages $300 million per year, this amount targets assistance for 10 programs the Mexican government is supposed to be implementing, including International Narcotics & Law Enforcement, In-Country Counternarcotics Program, Violence Prevention program (JVP), and 7 others. Yet, where are the results? What is Mexico doing to reduce crime and interdict drug and human trafficking? Mexico is 20th on the list of nations with the highest crime rates. Narcotics and drugs coming into the US from Mexico, Central and South America are all smuggled through Mexico. We give Mexico more than any other country and what do we get? A flood of illegals and drugs. Helluva deal.

The US GAO took data from 3 national studies on the costs of illegal immigration and published its findings: All three national studies concluded that illegal aliens in the United States generate more in costs than revenues to federal, state, and local governments combined.

According to research by the Center for Immigration Studies on the Cost of a Border Wall vs. the Cost of Illegal Immigration, the fiscal burden on American taxpayers is $75,000 for each and every illegal. The number of illegals in the US is near 12 million, most of whom are on some sort of welfare program. You do the math. If that is possible.

CIS Key Findings

There is agreement among researchers that illegal immigrants overwhelmingly have modest levels of education — most have not completed high school or have only a high school education.

There is also agreement that immigrants who come to America with modest levels of education create significantly more in costs for government than they pay in taxes.

A recent NAS study estimated the lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) of immigrants by education. Averaging the cost estimates from that study and combining them with the education levels of illegal border-crossers shows a net fiscal drain of $74,722 per illegal crosser.

The above figures are only for the original illegal immigrants and do not include any costs for their U.S.-born descendants. If we use the NAS projections that include the descendants, the fiscal drain for border-crossers grows to $94,391 each.

This means that for each 100,000 illegal immigrants stopped or deterred by a wall, the saving to taxpayers would be nearly $7.5 billion.

If a border wall prevented 160,000 to 200,000 illegal crossings (excluding descendants) in the next 10 years it would be enough to pay for the estimated $12 to $15 billion cost of the wall.

Newly released research by the Institute for Defense Analyses (IDA) done for the Department of Homeland Security indicates that 170,000 illegal immigrants crossed the border successfully without going through a port of entry in 2015. While a significant decline in crossings from a decade ago, it still means that there may be 1.7 million successful crossings in the next decade. If a wall stopped just 9 to 12 percent of these crossings it would pay for itself.

If a wall stopped half of those expected to successfully enter illegally without going through a port of entry at the southern border over the next 10 years, it would save taxpayers nearly $64 billion — several times the wall’s cost.


The effectiveness of a border wall has already been proven in the San Diego area and elsewhere, walls have reduced illegal border crossings by as much as 95%.

Build the damned wall, who gives a shit who fronts the money, at the rate things are going, the wall would pay for itself in one year.
The United States foreign aid to Mexico averages $... (show quote)


Excellent points, I am serious. Thank you. Did not know these things.

The cost is dreadful but that does not mean a wall will fix it. Besides, as much as I appreciate the information and find it extremely valuable in examining the Border situation, the topic is, by Trump's own words, that "he should be fired for the government shutdown."

Reply
Dec 24, 2018 08:07:30   #
snowbear37 Loc: MA.
 
rumitoid wrote:
In his impromptu on camera meeting with Pelosi and Schumer, Trump said, for the whole world to hear, “I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck. Because the people of this country don’t want criminals and people who have lots of problems — and drugs — pouring into our country. I WILL TAKE THE MANTLE. I will be the one to shut it down. I’m not going to blame you for it (Dems, which he did later).” (Also note, BTW, the racist comments that Mexican immigrants are "criminals and people who have lots of problems and drugs.")

President Donald Trump believes responsibility for a government shutdown goes straight to the top, right to the president’s office. At least that’s what he said on Fox News — when he was talking about Barack Obama in 2013.

Trump revealed his views when he was asked on “Fox & Friends” about a pending government shutdown which occurred over a funding battle in October that year.

“Boardroom here,” said host Elisabeth Hasselbeck, referring to Trump’s reality TV show “The Apprentice,” in which he summarily fired people. “Who’s getting fired? Who’s going to bear the brunt of the responsibility if indeed there is a government shutdown?” she asked Trump, who had called in to the program.

“If you say who gets fired it always has to be the top,” Trump responded. “Problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top. And the president’s the leader. He’s got to get everyone in a room and he’s gotta lead. But he doesn’t do that,” Trump added, referring to Obama.

“And that’s why you have this horrible situation going on in Washington. It’s a very, very bad thing and it’s very embarrassing worldwide.”

He also noted that when people look back on a shutdown in history, they’re “going to be talking about ... who the president was at that time. They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head of the Senate, who’s running things in Washington.”
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/asked-apos-gets-fired-apos-021449862.html
In his impromptu on camera meeting with Pelosi and... (show quote)


What ALL you liberal knuckleheads leave out of your endless rants against Trump is the fact that A MAJORITY OF THE VOTERS IN THIS COUNTRY WANT A WALL!!

You conveniently "skip over" what illegal immigrants COST the taxpayers every year (much, much more than the cost of a wall).

Pin-head Pelosi says a wall is "immoral". That is one politician's opinion (that even she doesn't really believe) and it is supposed to "override" the majority of voters' wills.

Obfuscate, deny, gloss over, that fact all you want, but the fact still remains....the American majority WANT A WALL BUILT!

Sh*t-for-brains Schumer never admits it, he's so arrogant, he believes that what he wants is more important than what Americans want. He leads his party like a little "Hitler" and the liberal lemmings follow due to a severe lack of intelligence, guts, and patriotism.

The biggest flaws in the Democrat party are Pin-head Pelosi and Sh*t-for brains Schumer. The Republican Party have their RINOs and the Democrats have sinister Schumer and pernicious Pelosi. After Jan 3rd, the Democrats will have even more California cretins and New York knuckleheads on their side. At that time, the will of the American people will be even LESS relevant!

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Dec 24, 2018 09:20:12   #
pict
 
what country's airforce were you in, it sounds like maybe cuba, china, or who knows whear.it sure as hell wasn't the U.S.A.

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Dec 24, 2018 12:11:54   #
Louie27 Loc: Peoria, AZ
 
Airforceone wrote:
Of course the government shutdowns get blamed on the president always has and always will. But the court of public opinion which is the American people and who they blame. So let’s wait and see, it’s clear Trump said he is happy to take the blame. So I guess he is a happy guy.


The blame should go squarely on the shoulders of Pelosi and Schumer. They wanted the border fenced in 2006 so what is the difference now? The only difference is that they dislike whatever Trump asks for they will reject. They only play politics and do not care about the safety of all Americans. Just my view and that of many others.

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Dec 24, 2018 13:28:11   #
Gary Coop 44 Loc: Denver CO
 
Hears ONE more that see it that way !! Merry Christmas TO ALL !

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Dec 24, 2018 14:04:51   #
truthiness
 
snowbear37 wrote:
What ALL you liberal knuckleheads leave out of your endless rants against Trump is the fact that A MAJORITY OF THE VOTERS IN THIS COUNTRY WANT A WALL!!

You conveniently "skip over" what illegal immigrants COST the taxpayers every year (much, much more than the cost of a wall).

Pin-head Pelosi says a wall is "immoral". That is one politician's opinion (that even she doesn't really believe) and it is supposed to "override" the majority of voters' wills.

Obfuscate, deny, gloss over, that fact all you want, but the fact still remains....the American majority WANT A WALL BUILT!

Sh*t-for-brains Schumer never admits it, he's so arrogant, he believes that what he wants is more important than what Americans want. He leads his party like a little "Hitler" and the liberal lemmings follow due to a severe lack of intelligence, guts, and patriotism.

The biggest flaws in the Democrat party are Pin-head Pelosi and Sh*t-for brains Schumer. The Republican Party have their RINOs and the Democrats have sinister Schumer and pernicious Pelosi. After Jan 3rd, the Democrats will have even more California cretins and New York knuckleheads on their side. At that time, the will of the American people will be even LESS relevant!
What ALL you liberal knuckleheads leave out of you... (show quote)


Not sure which America you are talking about, but the majority of United States Americans DO NOT WANT the wall to be built.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-dont-want-a-government-shutdown-because-of-the-border-wall/

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Check out topic: NATO chief allies with gays
Dec 24, 2018 15:47:54   #
woodguru
 
Liberty Tree wrote:
If you did not blame Obama then you have no right to blame T rump.


I saw no indicators that Obama was doing idiotic things that trash the economy. Trump could have seen four more years of things going as they were under Obama, but no, he had to bring his chaos management style into full operation. He will never figure out you can't file a bankruptcy and burn the people who invested in the country, although it's apparent you can deregulate and wipe out trillions of dollars of people's retirement and savings.

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Dec 24, 2018 15:50:38   #
woodguru
 
Airforceone wrote:
Of course the government shutdowns get blamed on the president always has and always will. But the court of public opinion which is the American people and who they blame. So let’s wait and see, it’s clear Trump said he is happy to take the blame. So I guess he is a happy guy.


Of course it helps when Trump was handed a bill he refused to sign, it really isn't his place to refuse to sign what the house and senate do, and for his own rhetorical and symbolic things yet.

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Dec 24, 2018 15:54:05   #
woodguru
 
Liberty Tree wrote:
The MSM never blames Democrats for shutdowns, no matter who is President.


Obama didn't refuse to sign the budgets that were brought to him, the GOP was holding the budget and shutdown hostage as a means for illegally ending Obamacare

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Dec 24, 2018 15:55:44   #
woodguru
 
Liberty Tree wrote:
Before thi every shutdown has been blamed on the GOP by the MSMnd if Trump had said nothing they still would have blamed it on him.


If Trump were willing to sign what was brought to him it wouldn't be his fault would it? And it wouldn't be dems fault because there would be no shutdown.

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