Glaucon

I forgot you are such a deep thinking person.

AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State

Just a thought here. Think in "business" terms. There is a difference between a "slave trader" and a "Slave Trader". If you are going to do history think of the terms in historical perspective not current terms.

During those times there were individuals who were "Slave Traders". That was their "business", the running of slave markets. Going to Africa, obtaining slaves and bringing them here to sell. (As a historical note, many of the slaves brought here were obtained from black slave traders in Africa) T. Jefferson was a "slave trader" for the running of his primary "business" as a plantation owner.

As another historical note, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts allowed slavery to continue in Massachusetts after the Civil War. It certainly suits the meme that only "southerners" owned, bought or had slaves. Such meme would not be historically incorrect.

Skyhook

(In reply to vernon's:
i thaught the 13 colonies all had slavery.)

Well, I did a bit of looking through the old stuff and you are correct. All 13 did have some form and/or some degree of slavery especially when indentured servants (pretty much volunteered slaves) are added into the mix.

That was truly a different time.

Glaucon

I think of a person who buys and sells slaves is a slave trader, but I think you have a point. I think you are saying that at that in our history, slave trader meant being in the business of slave trading, capturing people in Arica and selling them. By the same reasoning, a person who bought and sold several cars would probably not be called a car trader or a car dealer. Your suggestion might be that a slave trader at that time was in that business and obviously Jefferson was not in that business. We seem to have some different use of words, but agree on the substance of the issue. I don’t think it is a particularly important issue, do you?
I didn’t know about Slavery in Massachusetts continued to be allowed after the Civil war. I checked it and you are right.

saltwind 78 Loc: Murrells Inlet, South Carolina

Slavery was legal in most if not all of the original colonies, but was never as popular in the North. The cotton gin invented in the late 1700s made cotton cultivation necessary in the South. It just about died out in the North by the 19th century.

AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State

I only brought the point up as a historical perspective, as you say, on terminology.

As to my comment on Massachusetts, I VERY rarely make a clear statement of fact if it is not accurate. If I am on "shaky" ground on a fact and in a hurry, I will normally say, "I believe". My BFF is originally from Pennsylvania (another Commonwealth). She did some historical digging and found, indirectly, slavery continued there. The person may have been "free"; however, the person "employing" the individual would charge rent, etc. commensurate with wages paid. Such practice would seem to be "slavery".

saltwind 78 Loc: Murrells Inlet, South Carolina

No doubt that this is true. I loved teaching US history.

vernon

[quote=AuntiE]Just a thought here. Think in "business" terms. There is a difference between a "slave trader" and a "Slave Trader". If you are going to do history think of the terms in historical perspective not current terms.

During those times there were individuals who were "Slave Traders". That was their "business", the running of slave markets. Going to Africa, obtaining slaves and bringing them here to sell. (As a historical note, many of the slaves brought here were obtained from black slave traders in Africa) T. Jefferson was a "slave trader" for the running of his primary "business" as a plantation owner.

As another historical note, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts allowed slavery to continue in Massachusetts after the Civil War. It certainly suits the meme that only "southerners" owned, bought or had slaves. Such meme would not be historically incorrect.[/quot

i think that showes there was much more to the civil war than slavery.

vernon

the reason for not much slavery was the irish were here and worked for almost nothing it was cheaper to work them than keep slaves.

saltwind 78 Loc: Murrells Inlet, South Carolina

The Irish may have been the first but not the last.Italians, greeks, Germans, Jews from Eastern Europe, and lots of other immigrant groups, have come here. Ain't America great!

Skyhook

Yes, America IS great, for most of those -with one notable exception- scratched and clawed their way to better lives and offered their children even better. If the greatness had been missing, those poor immigrants would have remained poor just like their family members who remained behind.

docwill

Except for this, America's greatness/exceptionalism would truly shine:

"There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs." -Booker T. Washington

Glaucon

I think docwill looked until he found an important black person that could be quoted to suggest support for his bigotry and that is common practice among racists. His intent with offering this particular quote is obvious.
In furthering his racist intentions, he made the quote seem to mean something I am sure Washington didn’t intend: The quote was made more than a hundred years ago, a time in which “Negros” had no power to correct their troubles except to make them known and to hope for some support for them from some fair minded whites who did have power. He also left out a key word that slants Washington’s meaning. He left out the word, another from the original. Instead of There is a class of colored people…. It reads, there is ANOTHER class of colored people…. Obviously the meanings of the versions differ in a planned direction.

What do you think the purpose was for posting this quote? What did he want to have readers believe about blacks? Why did he fail to state that this quote was about a very different time and conditions? Why did he omit that one particular word from what Washington was quoted as saying?

Docwill, some of the readers of this site are much more intelligent and much less racist than you apparently believe.

Glaucon

"The greatness of America lies not in being more enlightened than any other nation, but rather in her ability to repair her faults," - Alexis de Tocqueville.

docwill

When refuted, resort to charging "racism." It's in english; more true now than ever, unless you'd like to disprove Booker's premise...