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Mar 7, 2014 08:14:06   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
working class stiff wrote:
Complement to Papa. And you by association
I think it is important to be able to contradictory thoughts in ones brain. Especially after deciding which side one is on.

I always knew you were a lady.


Papa was a very critical thinker and he tried his best to teach me. I used to think that he was stalling when he said he needed to "read up" on something rather than giving a quick opinion. But, I have learned that the older I get the more I appreciate his teachings.

So, thank you very much! My Papa is still my hero.

I find that what many consider a contradiction are not necessarily so. We as a Nation may not agree on how to obtain a result; we are truly looking for the best outcome for our nation regardless of political affiliation. We simply do not agree on how to get the results we need.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Mar 7, 2014 08:44:14   #
Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan
 
skott wrote:
I'm a lib and keep getting attacked by trolls from the right. They don't like that I have an opinion and back it with facts. Others, a few that you mentioned really want to debate.


I think both sides of the aisle (in this site) like to perpetuate myths about one another, rather than debate with facts or any critical thinking whatsoever.

Some of those are:
Welfare queens and cheats
Poor non tax paying retirees
Military veterans
Food Stamp myths
Fraud
Cognitive dissonance and critical thinking

Good luck changing that....

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Mar 7, 2014 08:48:17   #
pixie
 
fob1959 wrote:
I have been a lurker, here, for a while. I have watched quite a few of the discussions develop over a period of a few weeks. I find one can learn a great deal from quietly watching. I thought I would register and leave a few observations. But first we need to define what an internet troll is.

I like Wikipedia's definition. In Internet slang, a troll (/&#712;tro&#650;l/, /&#712;tr&#594;l/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

That is a good definition, but it does nothing to explain the purpose. The purpose of the troll is to stifle dissenting opinion. They want to stop any conversation where ideas which differ from theirs are expressed. The reason is to dominate the political arena by shutting up and out any differing opinion.

I do not know who manages this site, but my guess would be it is one of the left wing ideologues who try to dominate and ultimately shut down debate that disagrees with them. There seem to be quite a few folks (Tasine, Ginny, Old Gringo, oldroy and others) who attempt serious, fact based discussion. These people will present factual information with serious supporting links.

Which brings us to the trolls. I regularly see the likes of Kevyn, Brian Devon, Armegeddun, Hungry Freaks, Raylan Wolfe, retired669 and a couple of others try to shut down discussion with profane, off topic rants. Or they support their positions with a far left opinion site, such as addictinginfo or mediamatters and no real fact. They then call the opponent all sorts of vile, profane names.

Which returns to my point, that this site seems more oriented to shutting down comment from right wingers, than supporting an honest exchange of ideas. The question in my mind is, was OPP developed as a trolling site, to stifle Conservative speech, or did it devolve to that?
I have been a lurker, here, for a while. I have wa... (show quote)


good post! :thumbup: ...as for the likes of brian and retarded666......all you have to do is ignore their posts!....works for me...lol... :lol: ;)

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Mar 7, 2014 08:59:27   #
Retired669
 
pixie wrote:
good post! :thumbup: ...as for the likes of brian and retarded666......all you have to do is ignore their posts!....works for me...lol... :lol: ;)





Yes by all means keep your mind closed and your blinders pulled tight! It seems to be working for all you conservative baggers just fine. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Mar 7, 2014 09:05:04   #
Wolf counselor Loc: Heart of Texas
 
Aboyo Nimadi . Early you rise with your bitterness. Not sleeping well ? Not to worry. The time of correction is near.

Retired669 wrote:
Yes by all means keep your mind closed and your blinders pulled tight! It seems to be working for all you conservative baggers just fine. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Mar 7, 2014 09:09:45   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Dummy Boy wrote:
I think both sides of the aisle (in this site) like to perpetuate myths about one another, rather than debate with facts or any critical thinking whatsoever.

Some of those are:
Welfare queens and cheats
Poor non tax paying retirees
Military veterans
Food Stamp myths
Fraud
Cognitive dissonance and critical thinking

Good luck changing that....



Interesting that you label these discussion points as myths. I would enjoy reading your opinions on each.

I believe that there are people that take advantage of the system or safety nets, but I do not think that everyone receiving assistance are frauds. But, any system will have a number of dishonest people.

I do not understand the "poor non tax paying retiree." Are you trying to say that people who are retired do not pay taxes? Some retirees are perhaps are under the poverty level. I can assure you that although I am retired; I pay taxes each year. Probably more in taxes than most people earn in income each year.

When you group people together you will have various opinions and many will not agree with one another. This happens most often when you have a diversity of participants. That is to be expected and respected. That said, there is NEVER an acceptable excuse for being uncivil. The selection of words need to be examined. For example is there a better way of telling someone that you disagree other than calling them a name and telling them they are stupid. For some this will be offensive, but I do not intend to be cruel. When you call people names, you are actually showing your lack of values and exceptionally poor training by your parents. It also shows your position in your community and lack of education.

Your point about critical thinking is well taken and I wholeheartedly agree. It is highly subjective.

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Mar 7, 2014 10:29:33   #
fob1959
 
rumitoid wrote:
fob1959, Everyone has a slant or bent, as is obvious from your observations which were not entirely objective. Most notably excluding anyone with an, er, overzealous Right wing stance and by default approving the Right's "sources" of far right opinion sites.

If I were to say that there are an equal amount of crazies, haters, and trolls on both sides, I would likely be attacked by both sides for that comment. Each group thinks they are the injured party and the other side is stifling discussion by their extremism and troll-like behavior.

From the day I got here I have been attacked by many posters and never responded in kind, remaining civil. A few here of a different bent than mine recognized this and also noticed I agreed with them on certain issues; a mutual respect developed and a few even call me friend. Yet there remains a number of others who only respond with insults and name calling. They do not bother me. Being Insulted depends on intelligence and its nearness to truth.
fob1959, Everyone has a slant or bent, as is obvio... (show quote)


In my OP I referred to two left wing opinion site, addictinginfo and medaimatters, which seem to be used regularly as source information by some on this site. These are progressive opinion sites. I do not believe anyone would argue that. However, their opinions are typically only that. They either do not have, or omit source information to support the opinion presented. Using a website as source information, which itself does not provide source information, only opinion, is not providing a source.

For instance, if I presented the idea that the top 1% of wage earners pay more than their share of income tax. I would be asked to support that statement. For support, I would submit an excerpt from the Tax Foundation, a nonpartisan organization which analyses taxes.

"In 2010, the top 1 percent of tax returns included 18.87 percent of all adjusted gross income and 37.38 percent of all federal individual income taxes paid. The top 5 percent earned 33.78 percent of income and paid 59.07 percent of taxes, and the top 10 percent earned 45.17 percent of income and paid 70.62 percent of taxes.

The Tax Foundation’s analysis is based on new individual income tax data from the Internal Revenue Service, reporting on calendar year 2010. This year the IRS changed its methodology to exclude dependent filers and include returns with negative adjusted gross income. For comparison’s sake, the new data is presented as far back as the IRS provides, to 2001, with the discontinuity noted for prior years.

Tax Foundation Fiscal Fact No. 343, “Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data,” by chief economist William McBride is available here."

Or I would link to the report, as thus:
http://taxfoundation.org/article/what-do-americans-really-pay-income-taxes

My original point was that there is a group of partisans, here, who support their opinions with nothing but opinion.

I am a Constitutional Conservative, so my opinions will be from what many would call the right. I would call it common sense and logic. However, when I present something I do source it with fact. An opinion site is a credible source, if they provide original source information to support their opinion.

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Mar 7, 2014 13:21:12   #
cesspool jones Loc: atlanta
 
skott wrote:
I'm a lib and keep getting attacked by trolls from the right. They don't like that I have an opinion and back it with facts. Others, a few that you mentioned really want to debate.

scott, the reason so many of you libs are getting attacked so hard from people on OPP like me iz because you all (OPP liberal-loose-noodles)cannot see the long term future of this country. just as you can't see the past of america, you all cannot see the long term effects of all this forced change that you want to impose on 'freedom.' alls you people can see is the short term effects (livin` for the weekend) of your actions and ideology which has absolutely no bearing on how to keep this country powerful so that we can, as we always have...help those in need. you can take that and twist it anyway you stupid libs do.

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Mar 7, 2014 13:57:35   #
Homestead
 
Kevyn wrote:
This is likely a government run site designed to flush out the people on the fringe so they will know who to throw in those FEMA concentration camps that will be run by the UN when the Muslum Commie New World Order takes over. If you posted anything subversive you had best sleep with one eye open and keep listening for those stealth black helicopters, they are coming to take you away!


The government doesn't need it's own site.

NASA is more than capable of monitoring every site including your emails and telephone calls.
Never mind the people they've hired to join sites, including game sites, looking for more recruits to infiltrate more sites. Then add to that, the very personal and complete details you have to give the government when you sign onto ObamaCare.

The realization comes, that there is nothing you can say or do that they don't know about or won't be able to find out about.

In this day and age the notion that the government has to create it's own web site to monitor it's citizens becomes absurd and laughable.

Especially when you look at how well the web sites created by the government work, have you tried to sign up for ObamaCare yet?

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Mar 7, 2014 15:17:09   #
pixie
 
Retired669 wrote:
Yes by all means keep your mind closed and your blinders pulled tight! It seems to be working for all you conservative baggers just fine. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


:roll: :roll: :roll:

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Mar 7, 2014 15:17:59   #
pixie
 
Homestead wrote:
The government doesn't need it's own site.

NASA is more than capable of monitoring every site including your emails and telephone calls.
Never mind the people they've hired to join sites, including game sites, looking for more recruits to infiltrate more sites. Then add to that, the very personal and complete details you have to give the government when you sign onto ObamaCare.

The realization comes, that there is nothing you can say or do that they don't know about or won't be able to find out about.

In this day and age the notion that the government has to create it's own web site to monitor it's citizens becomes absurd and laughable.

Especially when you look at how well the web sites created by the government work, have you tried to sign up for ObamaCare yet?
The government doesn't need it's own site. br br ... (show quote)


lol...great post!!!... :thumbup: :lol:

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Mar 7, 2014 15:20:48   #
pixie
 
cesspool jones wrote:
scott, the reason so many of you libs are getting attacked so hard from people on OPP like me iz because you all (OPP liberal-loose-noodles)cannot see the long term future of this country. just as you can't see the past of america, you all cannot see the long term effects of all this forced change that you want to impose on 'freedom.' alls you people can see is the short term effects (livin` for the weekend) of your actions and ideology which has absolutely no bearing on how to keep this country powerful so that we can, as we always have...help those in need. you can take that and twist it anyway you stupid libs do.
scott, the reason so many of you libs are getting ... (show quote)


really good post!!!...and a real good reply to liberals!..... :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Mar 7, 2014 15:35:40   #
Searching Loc: Rural Southwest VA
 
pixie wrote:
really good post!!!...and a real good reply to liberals!..... :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


I would expect that from "Mr. cesspool" -- but from you? I will just respectfully say -- I'm sorry you feel that way.

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Mar 7, 2014 15:44:53   #
pixie
 
Searching wrote:
I would expect that from "Mr. cesspool" -- but from you? I will just respectfully say -- I'm sorry you feel that way.


well..ummmm...im sorry you feel that way!...i guess we agree on something huh?...lol

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Mar 7, 2014 15:58:41   #
skott Loc: Bama
 
pixie wrote:
well..ummmm...im sorry you feel that way!...i guess we agree on something huh?...lol


I used to listen to a song whose lyrics were "Paranoia will destroy ya."
I can still move if I want to, can't you guys. That's called freedom. I don't have to kill everyone that I think wants to control me.
I am very sad that you all lost your freedom, and a lib like me still has mine. :XD: :XD: :XD:

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