archie bunker Loc: Texas

Do you deny what I said?

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

I can agree with what you said.... but not with what trump said....

What a strange world we are becoming.. Odd...

How is it that I so often agree with you, while we are so far apart on seeing that my political position is spot on...

and your political position is in the north 40???


Odd..

SilentGeneration Loc: Michigan

And some aren't. His emphasis has been on the thugs, murderers, and rapists. His focus is on crimes committed by people of color according to his tweets. Has he mentioned anything positive about immigrants from Mexico, Central America, or South America?

archie bunker Loc: Texas

It's simple Permi. I'm Archie Bunker, and you're George Jefferson.
Now let's get busy, make a sitcom, get rich, and buy ourselves some politicians!
I've got one pick in mind, but since I don't keep up with comedians, or wrestlers; I can't begin to guess who you might pick to buy.

Loki Loc: Georgia

You mean the legal ones, or the wetbacks?

Radiance3

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Have they changed the constitution about this?

All Obama's records are sealed and everything seemed mysterious. The only president we really don't know who he is. The "Dreams From My Father" were fake stories.

archie bunker Loc: Texas

Yeah, that needs clarification.

Loki Loc: Georgia

There is no Constitutional definition of natural born. The Congress has defined it. Contrary to this birth citizen of illegals bullshit, the intent of the 14th Amendment was simply to guarantee full citizenship rights to former slaves and their children. The Senator who wrote the First section (All persons born or naturalized in the US and subject to the jurisdiction thereof) specifically stated that it was NOT meant to apply to diplomats and their children, or FOREIGNERS. It was a restatement of the Civil Rights Act of 1866 which was passed by the same Congress. It was NEVER meant to include birth citizenship for children of wetbacks. The Congress has since defined natural born to include children born abroad to a US citizen. Natural born and Birth Citizen are the same thing. There are only 2 classes of citizens; birth or naturalized.

Radiance3

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I know all those. But I still believe Obama was not qualified.

boofhead

Those court challenges were not thrown out on the basis of law, but because the people who challenged were denied standing. Then the later challenges were thrown out on precedence. There has never been a court case that looked at the law of the matter, and no Federal Court has taken up the matter at all.

The law is as the Constitution says it is and that document says that to be Pres or Vice Pres you have to not only be a citizen you have to be natural born. Why else would this clause be placed in the document? If all that was needed was to be a citizen, why would the drafters of the Constitution need this sentence? They obviously felt it to be important; at that time they did not have typewriters or computer programs and every copy of any document had to be hand-written so why would they add extraneous paragraphs? They knew what they were writing so who are we to second-guess them?

At the time the Constitution was written natural born was defined by those authorities that were accepted at the time as born of citizen parents. That also has not been changed so it is still the law. There have been attempts to challenge the definition, notably by Hillary herself, but the challenges have not been picked up or ruled on by the court. The only court that has ruled on anything affecting the natural born clause has supported it as is, which makes Obama and Cruz ineligible to be President even if they were born in the USA.

Being born outside the country of citizen parents as you say does not disqualify one from citizenship provided the mother (in Obama's case) was qualified to pass it on, and she was not qualified at the time (the rule has since been modified but you cannot go back to apply a new law to old cases). But even then to be natural born BOTH parents had to be US citizens at the time of the birth, which did not happen with either Obama or Cruz.

However there is no law preventing someone who is not qualified from running; it is up to the DNC or RNC to decide if someone is qualified and to state that in the filing for the election. I read that in O's first term the required statement was issued, but in his second the DNC only said he was the candidate. It declined to say he was qualified, meaning that even they knew they were skirting the law.

Someone born in the US provided he is "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" is a citizen at birth. If the parent(s) is in the country illegally that child is NOT subject to the jurisdiction thereof and so is NOT qualified to automatic citizenship. This is keeping with most country's laws. I cannot think of any country that allows automatic citizenship just because of birth in the country. One requirement, sure, but if the parents should not be there neither should their kid and as for "anchor babies" that is a made-up term that is meaningless in law but we seem to be encouraging lawlessness nowadays.

We might not like the way the law is written or what it says, but we are bound by it. Deciding these important matters on the basis of feeling or political priorities is stupid and will lead to chaos. Or maybe it has already.

Radiance3

[quote=boofhead
Those court challenges were not thrown out on the basis of law, but because the people who challenged were denied standing. Then the later challenges were thrown out on precedence. There has never been a court case that looked at the law of the matter, and no Federal Court has taken up the matter at all.

The law is as the Constitution says it is and that document says that to be Pres or Vice Pres you have to not only be a citizen you have to be natural born. Why else would this clause be placed in the document? If all that was needed was to be a citizen, why would the drafters of the Constitution need this sentence? They obviously felt it to be important; at that time they did not have typewriters or computer programs and every copy of any document had to be hand-written so why would they add extraneous paragraphs? They knew what they were writing so who are we to second-guess them?

At the time the Constitution was written natural born was defined by those authorities that were accepted at the time as born of citizen parents. That also has not been changed so it is still the law. There have been attempts to challenge the definition, notably by Hillary herself, but the challenges have not been picked up or ruled on by the court. The only court that has ruled on anything affecting the natural born clause has supported it as is, which makes Obama and Cruz ineligible to be President even if they were born in the USA.

Being born outside the country of citizen parents as you say does not disqualify one from citizenship provided the mother (in Obama's case) was qualified to pass it on, and she was not qualified at the time (the rule has since been modified but you cannot go back to apply a new law to old cases). But even then to be natural born BOTH parents had to be US citizens at the time of the birth, which did not happen with either Obama or Cruz.

However there is no law preventing someone who is not qualified from running; it is up to the DNC or RNC to decide if someone is qualified and to state that in the filing for the election. I read that in O's first term the required statement was issued, but in his second the DNC only said he was the candidate. It declined to say he was qualified, meaning that even they knew they were skirting the law.

Someone born in the US provided he is "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" is a citizen at birth. If the parent(s) is in the country illegally that child is NOT subject to the jurisdiction thereof and so is NOT qualified to automatic citizenship. This is keeping with most country's laws. I cannot think of any country that allows automatic citizenship just because of birth in the country. One requirement, sure, but if the parents should not be there neither should their kid and as for "anchor babies" that is a made-up term that is meaningless in law but we seem to be encouraging lawlessness nowadays.

We might not like the way the law is written or what it says, but we are bound by it. Deciding these important matters on the basis of feeling or political priorities is stupid and will lead to chaos. Or maybe it has already.[/quote]
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boofhead, I agree with you. "The law is as the Constitution says it is and that document says that to be Pres or Vice Pres you have to not only be a citizen you have to be natural born. Why else would this clause be placed in the document? If all that was needed was to be a citizen, why would the drafters of the Constitution need this sentence? They obviously felt it to be important; at that time they did not have typewriters or computer programs and every copy of any document had to be hand-written so why would they add extraneous paragraphs? They knew what they were writing so who are we to second-guess them?"
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This was the original written on the constitution.

But since Obama run for president and became president, so much was changed on the constitution about who is qualified to be president of the United States. I am surprised so many paragraphs have been added. I still believe that Mr. Obama could not have qualified. He is not a natural born.

But based on those various amended paragraphs, they made him qualify as well as so many other who were born outside the US with one American citizen parent. I am upset on those amended cases which should have never been added that negates the validity of the original Founders Statement.

I'll stay focused on the original paragraph on the Constitution.
Qualifications for the Office of President.

Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

Radiance3

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I am right about Cruz. He is not qualified. He is not a natural born citizen. He is not a citizen when the constitution was framed. His Father is a Cuban, and was born in Canada.

Likewise, Obama could not have qualified either. His father was a Kenyan, with student visa to the US.
I am not sure where he was born. His grandma now dead, claimed he was born in Kenya. Even if he was born in the US, still he could not have qualified based on the fact that he was not a natural born, and not a citizen when the constitution was framed.

Here it is.
Qualifications for the Office of President
Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

Congress had not changed anything on that. Why are there so many changes in the provisions now? Who did that? Except those who wanted to justify that Obama is qualified.

Loki Loc: Georgia

I don't either. but there were over 30 court challenges and they all failed. I tend to think that he was covering up being listed as a foreign student.

Loki Loc: Georgia

Now, show us where the Constitution defines Natural Born Citizen? I can show you where the US Code defines birth citizenship. That is 8 USC 1401(g). It was passed before Obama was born. Or Ted Cruz. Mitt Romney Sr was allowed to run for president and he was born in Mexico. John McCain was allowed to run and he was born in the Canal Zone. As a matter of fact, the law that made him a birth citizen was passed a year after his birth and it grandfathered in all US citizens born in the Zone from the early 1900's up until 1937.
Black's Law, which has been used by the Supreme Court to decide more than 600 cases says that "natural born" and "birth citizen" are the same; as opposed to naturalized. "Natural born" is not a third class of citizen.

Radiance3

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Here it is Loki. Article II, Section I.
Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

John McCain was qualified. He was born inside a US military compound. And this is a US territory.
I think we must stick to the real constitutional provision in Article II, Section I.
They changed the minds of the framers. Natural born means both parents must be US citizens.

And Obama's father was a married Kenyan who came to study, and met young white woman who loved blacks and Muslims. She was 18 years old when Obama was born.

I still believe Obama was not qualified. So many mysteries involved in Obama's life since birth.
8 USC 1401 (g) Congress did not prepare that. The Court made it.
The Constitution has evolved due to liberal interpretations of the Judges. Everybody can now be president. Those US whores who picked up drug cartels from Mexico can have son or daughter who can be president. I don't like it. I am out of here.