rhomin57 Loc: Far Northern CA.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are *worthy of death,* not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
Romans 1.

Btfkr Loc: just outside the Mile High City

True, partly. You might not believe it but I do agree with some of your points. It is her choice to run her business how she wants. But isn't a law suit a risk if she wants to take the liberties of running her business just as she wants? As far as government FORCING HER to do business as she wanted, in this case, this law was just the opposite. :) This law was in HER favor ALLOWING her to run her business just as she wanted. So sorry, your own "free market competition government keep your damn hands off" argument of yours doesn't hold water.

I don't want to waste too much time on this, so here is my take.
1) Obviously there are more subtle ways to not serve someone, so coming from the party thats anti law, anti government, anti regulation, does them passing this law make sense? Does a business NEED additional "protection" from (gasp) queers or anybody else that doesn't have the same belief as them? I guess I question why such a person is in business dealing with the public. If she doesn't want to deal with all segments of society, perhaps she should be in a different business.
2) I as a consumer have a choice as well. Notice in this case I did not accept being treated as a "second class citizen". She didn't want our money? We went elsewhere. (BTW, I should have mentioned that the parking area had maybe 2 cars in it and there were about 15 or 20 rooms.) As a gay couple we always ask "are you gay friendly?" while making plans. (We don't for one night on the road stays obviously cuz we don't plan that tight.)
3) Hey, as a gay person, I'm happy to have come as far as we have come in terms of acceptance. That doesn't mean I think the law was right though. We have a ways to go yet. A note...if one looks at it, most laws that have come along in respect to gays have been to restrict gay rights, not enhance them. Just as this one was.

AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State

Because I can be perverse :shock:, you never know. If she had seen a female in the car, she may have asked to see proof of marriage and only offered twin beds without such proof. :lol: :roll:

jay-are

You should know that liberals and gays today use the courts to make law because they can't get their policies implemented through legislation. That is because the majority of people don't want those policies. So this legislation was not to impose discrimination, but to provide a defense against frivolous lawsuits. This was to keep the hands of the judicial branch of government out of business. The way the three branches can check the others is a beautiful thing.

When you question why the person is in business, you imply that people are monolithic and only care about money, and anything that brings in more money is good and must be done, and anything that brings in less money is bad and must be rejected. Real life is not so monolithic, and neither should it be. Businesses should be morally and ethically upright as their first priority and profit considerations should be a second priority. Some business people are willing to earn less than others for personal reasons, and that leads to diversity of businesses and competitive edges for businesses in certain niches.

All laws restrict behaviors that society decides are harmful. I personally see a significant amount of harm that homosexuality has caused to the American society,and that it will cause as it becomes more accepted and mainstream. For that reason I agree that laws should severely restrict the practice.

skott Loc: Bama

Isnt that exactly what we were talking about with discrimination against gays? Your are judging their hearts.

vernon

its their business and they have the right not to make a cake if they dont what.that is unless the nazis haev taken over.

Btfkr Loc: just outside the Mile High City

Good point, and again her choice, but not my idea of how to run a service business. And, motel, bakery, store, eatery etc, are SERVICE business. If someone does not to run a service business in these times, perhaps they should choose another business? Christian book store? :) Maybe at one time she could get away with such things, but times are changing, laws or no laws. More and more those who do not keep up will be left in the dirt. Reference all the corporate comments on the AZ law. Thanks for your input!

vernon

you are taking his right away from him.im sure you dont see it but it is nazi.remember how they did the jews and their businesses.

jay-are

A Christian book store, but not a Christian wedding cake store. Why do you allow a Christian book store to refuse to sell homosexual books, but a cake store can't refuse to sell a homosexual cake? Both are businesses that sell a product. Since you have admitted that you find it acceptable for someone to have a Christian bookstore, you have undermined your whole argument against the Cake store.

Btfkr Loc: just outside the Mile High City

"The way the three branches can check the others is a beautiful thing." Agreed. That is why you are seeing the unconstitutional anti gay laws that were passed being struck down by the courts. :) No the gays do not instigate the whole process, the legislature does. "as a defense of frivolous lawsuits" your words. No, in reality they CAUSE the lawsuits to get the unconstitutional laws into the court. So why waste the time and money passing stupid legislation in the first place? It all started with Amendment 2 in Colorado. After many years and a ton of taxpayers money, that was defeated and so are all the other anti-gay laws one by one. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results", Einstein. (Oh sorry, you aren't too fond of science :oops: ) Actually, I guess we can thank you for your efforts because the public is slowly seeing through your guise and more and more they are in favor of EQUAL rights. So keep talking, your are making my points.

"Morality and ethics in business" mwaahahahaha But that is another topic so no matter. OK. When ever any regulation or taxation or minimum wage or decent wages or anything comes up in regards to business, it is you guys that always jump right on the bandwagon singing "The main reason to be in business is to make a profit" So, which way do you want it or are you allowed to talk out of both sides of your mouth? I didn't think I implied what you said, but if you construed it that way so be it. I did implicitly say it was her choice how she managed her business.

I will have to take the exact opposite opinion of your last paragraph. I haven't a clue what "harm" you refer to? The old AIDS argument? Whatever. I, as one living on the other side of the fence from you, can see what "oppression" even in a mild form can do. Secret sex lives if it is AIDS to you refer as harm? Acting out in unhealthy ways? You are entitled to your opinion and me mine. I think that you should be realizing that "laws to restrict the practice", what ever you mean by that, are unconstitutional, and again, the way the right wing pushes the Constitution...which way do you want it?

rhomin57 Loc: Far Northern CA.

No, you are judging the acts of what you see. If you are truly a Christian with a business, and see something walk in that really offends your sense of right from wrong, I don't feel you should have to serve it. You'd probably have to prove your devout loyalty to your Christianity when the law suit happens, but NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT MONEY. Standing for your Lord brings more blessings in the long run than feeling you have to lower your own Christian morales to whats not acceptable concerning your Faith.
What American fast food company was it that had to change the way they cook to suit the Muzlim population?

You know the Scandinavian countries are not a mixed population of races and religions. They are a very happy people in their countries too. You never hear much bad news on the World News coming from them.
I'm sure they tisk-tisk at America.

Btfkr Loc: just outside the Mile High City

Oh lordy. as if ANYBODY in their right mind would go into Christian book store to buy a gay book. Hell, if they wanted to put gay books in their inventory sure! OK by me but wouldn't that be asinine? That WAS my whole point! We have Christian book stores where I live! Do I see gay folk lined up to go in to buy gay books? (Just in case it isn't obvious...NOT) If someone wanted to open a Christian Wedding Cake store or a Christian Motel or a Christian boutique or a Christian anything and advertise it strictly as a Christian anything, more power to them! Put a big Christian "fish" on the door! Call it "Caren' Christian Cakes". I seriously doubt they would even have to worry too much about any queers darkening their doorsteps. Like I said, keep talking, you are making my points for me. If someone wants to open any service oriented business and they want to run it on their own rules, and not advertise it as "Christian Watchamacallit" that is their decision, but they have to realize there might be consequences. Aren't you the party that is always talking choices and taking consequences for your choices in life? Once more, which way do you want it?

You all seem to have this huge fear that us gays want to take over your churches, your lives, your religion, your everything. The truth of the matter is, coming from the horses mouth which you likely have never heard, we don't care what you do! Keep your religion just as you like it, just don't push it on us! If you push us, we WILL push back! We were oppressed and harassed until Stonewall 1969 in NYC. NO MORE. Live and let live. What is so difficult about that?

PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.

Please desist pushing your lifestyle on the rest of us. It is unwanted and unwarranted.

rhomin57 Loc: Far Northern CA.

Your comment was good until the last paragraph.
Christian Parents, as well as non religious straight parents don't like their children being subjected to sexual perversion when they aren't even old enough to know and understand straight sexuality yet. To Christian Parents and Non religious straight parents, Gay sex and the knowledge of it is not even an option as they raise their kids.
Yet, the kids are exposed to Gays holding hands and embracing each other, making out, and even groping one another in the site of our Children, to where they even "Ask" about it.

You have upset the 'natural' balance of life, reproduction of it, and in some cases the home front kids grow up in.
Most parents don't want their kids bothered with the 'why's, what is it, how come, etc., while their young minds are developing naturally and normal as they grow up.

Do you Understand this BTFKR! You Gays are the most selfish. self obsorbed individuals that walk the Earth.

skott Loc: Bama

You just failed history. The nazis were on the side your advocating. It's ok not to do business with Jews. They're bad!