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Question, do we have a right to see any evidence against us before we are even charged?
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May 23, 2018 20:28:19   #
old marine Loc: America home of the brave
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
What must come to light first is the documentation that launched this investigation in the first place. Rod Rosenstein has been stonewalling on every attempt by the House Intelligence Committee to request that documentation. Seems to me that if former AG Lynch, former FBI Director Comey, and the rest of the players in the "Destroy Trump" cabal had an air tight case, they would be forthcoming in responding to that request. But, since their patsies, Rosenstein and Mueller, are refusing to cooperate, there must be a great deal of fear that the truth will crucify them.

For nothing is concealed that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.
Matthew 10: 26

For nothing is secret that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known and come to light.
Luke 8: 17

There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. There is nothing kept secret that will not come to light.
Mark 4: 22

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8: 32
What must come to light first is the documentation... (show quote)


I think you forgot to add.

"And the truth shall send Demon-Rats swamp dwelling traitors to prison for their crimes of false witness against a legally elected President.


God bless America and the President

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May 23, 2018 20:51:40   #
old marine Loc: America home of the brave
 
SilentGeneration wrote:
President Trump did not win the popular vote. He won the Electoral College vote.


Each state has a certain number of electoral votes based on citizens. Illegal immigrants are not citizens and do not count.

This is to prevent three or four highly populated cities from denying smaller states from being represented. Example some states have only 4 electoral votes and say California has 20.

This way if say California has 10 million registered voter's and 14 million illegal criminal aliens vote making the total popuar vote 24 million popular votes California will only receive 20 electoral votes. (These are only estimates to show how the total is tabulated.)


God bless America and the President

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May 23, 2018 22:14:57   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
lpnmajor wrote:
Nope, nor do we have a right to know we're under investigation either. I'm sure Trump and his cast of clowns think there's some magic out there that will absolve them of all wrong doing, but that is as unrealistic and delusional as Trumps agenda.

Law enforcement has used confidential informants for centuries, and as long as they are not used to entice a citizen into breaking the law are perfectly legal. In this case, however, there was no confidential informant..................only a witness.

What I find most amusing about Trump's desperate attempts to create an alibi, extenuating circumstances, or a "get out of jail" card, is that it is a tacit admission of guilt. The innocent need not try to recreate history, try to influence potential jurors, try to hide evidence, or try to create conflicts of interest amongst investigators. Another amusing component to Trump's pathetic attempts to appear innocent, are the claims that Obama and the FBI were clairvoyant - and knew that Trump would win the GOP nomination and go on to win the Presidency. If that were somehow true...................why didn't they use that information to help Hillary win?
Nope, nor do we have a right to know we're under i... (show quote)


What have you convicted our President Donald J Trump of?

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May 24, 2018 08:32:55   #
Bug58
 
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/brady_rule

Brady Rule

The Brady Rule, named after Brady v. Maryland, 373 U.S. 83 (1963), requires prosecutors to disclose materially exculpatory evidence in the government's possession to the defense. A "Brady material" or evidence the prosecutor is required to disclose under this rule includes any evidence favorable to the accused--evidence that goes towards negating a defendant's guilt, that would reduce a defendant's potential sentence, or evidence going to the credibility of a witness.

If the prosecution does not disclose material exculpatory evidence under this rule, and prejudice has ensued, the evidence will be suppressed. The evidence will be suppressed regardless of whether the prosecutor knew the evidence was in his or her possession, or whether or not the prosecutor intentionally or inadvertently withheld the evidence from the defense.

Further, in cases subsequent to Brady, the Supreme Court has eliminated the requirement for a defendant to have requested a favorable information, stating that the Prosecution has a constitutional duty to disclose, that is triggered by the potential impact of favorable but undisclosed evidence See Kyles v. Whitley 514 U.S. 419, 434 (1955); United States. v. Bagley, 473 U.S. 667 (1985).

The defendant bears the burden to prove that the undisclosed evidence was both material and favorable. In other words, the defendant must prove that there is a “reasonable probability” that the outcome of the trial would have been different, had the evidence been disclosed by the prosecutor. See Kyles, 514 U.S. at 433 (1955). Bagles and Kyles Court further defined the “materiality” standard, outlining the four aspects of materiality. First, the “reasonable probability” of a different result is not a question of whether the defendant would more likely than not have received a different verdict with the evidence, but whether the government’s evidentiary suppression undermines the confidence in the outcome of the trial. The second aspect is that it is not a sufficiency of evidence test, and the defendant only has to show that the favorable evidence could reasonably be taken to put the whole case in such a different light as to undermine the confidence in the verdict. Third aspect is that there is no need for a harmless error review, because a Brady violation, by definition, could not be treated as a harmless error. Fourth and final aspect of materiality the Kyles Court stressed was that the suppressed evidence must be considered collective, not item by item, looking at the cumulative effect to determine whether a reasonable probability is reached. See Kyles, 514 U.S. at 433-438.

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May 24, 2018 08:39:50   #
Bug58
 
https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/the-6th-amendment-s-confrontation-clause.html


http://www.lawfirms.com/resources/criminal-defense/criminal-defense-case/evidence-at-trial.htm


https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-when-the-prosecution-must-disclose.html

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May 24, 2018 08:46:39   #
Bug58
 
permafrost wrote:
There is a reason that most presidents have sought, publicly at least, to make clear that the DOJ is free to pursue investigations without concern of presidential meddling. Because since Richard Nixon used his administration like a personal vendetta-settling machine, there has been a renewed belief in the idea that no one is above the law and that no one can make the wheels of justice move the way they want.


Trump has repeatedly flouted that standard -- whether in his pressure campaign on Justice over the "spy" story or Giuliani's recent insistence that a president cannot be subpoenaed or indicted.
Whether or not the "spy" story is true -- or even has strands of truth to it -- is immaterial to Trump. What matters is that he has forced the Justice Department to look into it. If they find some evidence of wrongdoing, that's great for Trump -- a dagger to the Mueller probe. If they find nothing, well, that's OK too, because then he can argue they are just part of the broader "deep state conspiracy" working against Trump.


It's win-win for Trump. And a lose-lose for our democratic institutions. No one should lose sight of those twin realities or misunderstand what that tells us about a President willing to violate the norms of government for his own purposes.
There is a reason that most presidents have sought... (show quote)


You mean like the Obama admin did w/ the IRS? And the FBI towards those who disagreed with them politically??

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May 24, 2018 14:17:30   #
Marsinah
 
PeterS wrote:
Rudy made the statement that 'this is going to help the president in his defense' in Trumps latest press of the DoJ for how they are investigating him. So my question is: do we have a right to see any evidence against us before any charges have been brought?


I did read a headline in the ABQ Journal, yesterday or the day before, I believe, saying Trump wants to investigate both the FBI and DOJ.

And so I wonder, as did Bertrand Russell, with the barber: "If the FBI investigates everybody in the country who doesn't investigate themselves, who investigates the FBI"? (You know, paraphrasing "If the barber shaves every man in town who doesn't shave himself, who shaves the barber"?

And if you tell me Trump can appoint a "Special Prosecutor", then who prosecutes Trump?

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May 24, 2018 14:20:45   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Marsinah wrote:
I did read a headline in the ABQ Journal, yesterday or the day before, I believe, saying Trump wants to investigate both the FBI and DOJ.

And so I wonder, as did Bertrand Russell, with the barber: "If the FBI investigates everybody in the country who doesn't investigate themselves, who investigates the FBI"? (You know, paraphrasing "If the barber shaves every man in town who doesn't shave himself, who shaves the barber"?

And if you tell me Trump can appoint a "Special Prosecutor", then who prosecutes Trump?
I did read a headline in the ABQ Journal, yesterda... (show quote)


And thus, we spiral down the toilet!

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May 24, 2018 14:25:11   #
buffalo Loc: Texas
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
And thus, we spiral down the toilet!


Who gets to pull the handle? All the crooked, greedy, self-serving s61theads need to go down the toilet.

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May 24, 2018 14:27:18   #
Marsinah
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
And thus, we spiral down the toilet!


I think you mean, FURTHER down the toilet !!! (Take note, Rodney: space, three exclamation points!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf_TDuhk3No

Victor Borge.

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May 24, 2018 14:39:05   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Marsinah wrote:
I think you mean, FURTHER down the toilet !!! (Take note, Rodney: space, three exclamation points!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf_TDuhk3No

Victor Borge.


I like that. Who's Rodney?

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May 24, 2018 14:50:30   #
Marsinah
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
I like that. Who's Rodney?


Don't ask, don't tell.

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May 24, 2018 16:56:34   #
PeterS
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
In the pitifully blind and ideological biased eyes of liberals, the defeat of their precious queen is the only "crime". Out of a field of 16 Republican candidates, one man stood out as a major threat, so in early 2016, the Obama administration weaponized its DOJ and FBI to surveill and investigate him in an attempt to prevent the worst "crime" in American history. Then, when American voters chose Trump as their nominee, this was evidence that a "crime" was definitely in progress, so Obama's high level operatives in the DOJ and FBI, in the Hillary campaign, and in the MSM ramped up their efforts. Yet, in spite of this subterfuge, the American voters violated the liberal laws of entitlement and elected Trump as POTUS. This was worse than a felony, this was treason, So again the Obama and Hillary operatives, and the MSM ramped up their campaign to unprecedented levels in their effort to undermine a duly elected president, to destroy him, his family, and his administration.

Trump did not elect himself, the Americans who elected him are the ones who committed the "crime". Trump is not the criminal, he is the evidence that a crime was committed.

This attempt by a sitting adminstration, the democrat nominee campaign, and the MSM to undermine and defeat its opposition and, in the process, destroy the American electoral process is the greatest political scandal in American history.

Yet, in spite of it all, both the Constitution and the law are fully on the side of the president. This is indesputable. Trump knows this and he isn't backing down, not by a long shot.
In the pitifully blind and ideological biased eyes... (show quote)

I asked you this before and I don't think you answered. Once Trump became president for Obama to be able to coordinate what is going on in the FBI he would have had to know that 1) Sessions would recuse himself, that 2) Trump would nominate Rosenstein and that 3) Rosenstein would hire Mueller after Trump fired Comey to put an end to that Russer thang.

If anything failed anywhere in that link we wouldn't have the investigation that we now have. Since Obama doesn't have the power to see into the future how could he execute such a plan and have it come into futrition?

It's one thing to entertain a conspiracy and fully another when it becomes laughable...

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May 24, 2018 17:01:41   #
PeterS
 
Marsinah wrote:
I did read a headline in the ABQ Journal, yesterday or the day before, I believe, saying Trump wants to investigate both the FBI and DOJ.

And so I wonder, as did Bertrand Russell, with the barber: "If the FBI investigates everybody in the country who doesn't investigate themselves, who investigates the FBI"? (You know, paraphrasing "If the barber shaves every man in town who doesn't shave himself, who shaves the barber"?

And if you tell me Trump can appoint a "Special Prosecutor", then who prosecutes Trump?
I did read a headline in the ABQ Journal, yesterda... (show quote)

Trump is just trying to muddy the water and sow as much distrust as possible. If we can't trust the FBI or DoJ then we can't trust anything that they say. It's a form of ad hominem where you attack the institution in order to discredit any findings.

Who shaves the barber? After you destroy the credibility of everyone else to save your sorry ass you just grow a beard and laugh at the fools who put you in power...

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May 24, 2018 17:09:40   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
PeterS wrote:
Trump is just trying to muddy the water and sow as much distrust as possible. If we can't trust the FBI or DoJ then we can't trust anything that they say. It's a form of ad hominem where you attack the institution in order to discredit any findings.

Who shaves the barber? After you destroy the credibility of everyone else to save your sorry ass you just grow a beard and laugh at the fools who put you in power...


Dude, it's not the entire FBI but rather, their leading elites, like Comey, who has essentially described how, at least with him, his decisions as FBI head, were politically motivated. That and stupid.

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