J Anthony Loc: Connecticut

I can't believe there are people so blind and biased that they blame unions for our troubles. Of course there are bad apples in unions, absolutely. But their power has waned considerably over the last few decades, membership is single-digit in the private sector. So what are the union-haters and busters big ideas on how to protect and maintain a decent living standard for workers? They have none. I suppose they feel they can trust their corporate overlords to be fair and considerate. Maybe the unions' old ways of doing things are obsolete today, but without them there would have been no middle class, no rights and benefits that people today take for granted. The slow but steady devaluing of labor seems to be working, as people worship a rich guy who doesn't work and lives off his capital gains, creating nothing of value and spending most of his "income" on buying politicians, but look down upon the productive laborer whose work contributes to the functioning of society, as deserving of nothing. Our values are completely backwards.

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

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Have you NO understanding of freedom and free people? Screw unions. I never worked under a union, and I am alive and well and retired. Employers hire the people to do a job. Either the hiree can do the work or he can't. If he can, he gets paid. If he's really good, he gets a raise. If he can't or doesn't do the job, he gets fired, and someone who WILL or CAN do the job gets hired. If an employer is bad enough, he won't be able to get and keep decent workers. If he is good enough, he will be able to get really good workers. Good workers make more money for the boss, and if the boss mistreats them, they quit, the boss gets a lousy replacement, loses money and realizes the smart thing to do is pay more to get more. The pis ant jobs should be left to teenagers and old folks looking for something to fill their days. If workers are worth the money, they usually get the money. Union members seem to think they aren't worth much and need a union to force employers to pay. You should step outside a union hall once in a while. See what America truly is - or was until unions and other welfare agencies destroyed it.

rodulfo-tardo

Single Party, single thought the "Prerogative State" is the Leader, in German it is Fuehrer.

J Anthony Loc: Connecticut

What in hell does freedom have to do with it? You think you're somehow more free than someone who's in a union? Everyone is trying to do better for themselves and their families in different ways. You still can't seem to acknowledge that it was union aggression (and I've already acknowledged that being FOR unions does not mean you're for ALL UNIONS. There is a difference. Not all unions operate the same way) that brought the standard of income and living up for all workers, public and private. Now that wages have been stealthily decimated in the private sector, people are looking at public sector workers and howling that they make too much. Everyone fell for it. By all means let's get greed and corruption out of both sectors, out of everywhere, but scapegoating unions for the country's problems is a cop-out. There isn't a union in existence that has the power of banks and corporations, who have had society tethered to their debt-trap boom-and-bust cycle so long that we can no longer see what's right in front of us.

ibKelly

You know... since 1957... the city we lived in then was all UNION.... we had an income decent for a family of 6. We were not rich... not poor either. We had one car but finally bought a good used one. The Mother DID NOT work outside the home. Groceries, and all items sold in stores and elsewhere, met the needs of our family. Everyone was happy..... but when the Unions went up on salaries for the employees, EVERYTHING else that was sold in this state went up too. So how in the world can people say the UNIONS did a good thing. Perhaps at one time, the Unions were a good thing.... by giving them a decent salary for the hours worked.. and sick pay, etc.

The only good I see as far as the unions were concerned back then was they protected the rights of the workers. But now... when they collect these enormous dues, it goes to benefit the people those union headhonchos' want to 'govern the country via President' and into the Union bosses pockets too. We are not any better off financially now than we were back then. If a person makes more money, it's comes in the front door... but goes out the back door for schooling, cars, pleasures of all kinds, eating out, clothes, vacations, etc. People back then were happier then than they are now. We have more crime, more killings than ever cause people seem to have a short fuse..... and no one seems to know the word HONESTY anymore.... People are stuck in their own little world not even knowing their next door neighbor or offer to help one either... We have car jackings cause someone wanted that car more than you. We have break ins.... cause someone wanted what you had inside. We make tremendous salaries cause it sounds better when bragging on it to a relative. Kids are out at night cause of no parenting skills... or either too tired from working all day to care what they do. Nothing is the same.. People were happier back then than now.


Now you compare the cost of the car and groceries which were super cheap, clothes, and all goods sold at that period of time, to what is sold now. Cars cost a fortune, thousands and thousands and even more than a lot of houses too. Groceries are out of sight... BOTH parents now have to work in order to pay for the HIGH $ cost $ of a house and clothes, etc. People do not have as many kids now as they did back then either.

So.. tell me how come we are better off now than back then.... cause I beg to differ with you.

Vacaman

I know a buch of people on both sides if this argument, being rich is nice but to be wealthy is much better. I think you and I actually agree on this union issue. I know having worked for union and non union jobs, the pay is much different. If all those unions desolved tomorrow, nobody will make a decent living in the blue collar world. The loss of jobs are a result of over reaching environmental groups, local taxes and buyers being too cheap to stick with American goods. Americans can not compete with Chinese factories. And american unions will not last with cheap illegal labor either. Immigration should include servitude to the government or at least require a job or personal wealth. Welfare payed through over taxation is a job killer too if we can't afford American made products. A cheap society is a McBroke society.

Vacaman

It was a simpler time, the unions actually go back further and were started to protect coal miners. The wages are much better than non union. I was pondering these increases in the cost if living and when they exploded, there is a correlation to the women's liberal movement and the insisting women's income be considered as viable income toward mortgages, the housing market rocketed up and carpenters labor was not the cause, capitalism at its best. It will always be supply and demand. To back to using cash and you will feel the money you are spending and spend wiser. The market will recede when people quit spending freely.

ibKelly

The reason the Unions lost work here when it was shipped over seas is cause of how much a company had to pay out for the same items made here... only a much lower quality of goods made overseas and of course cheaper... Maybe not all goods... like Cars, etc...Im not sure if Toyota is still Non-union or not... but the Unions have ruined themselves by demanding more from companies to go union whose $$$'s went in the Union heads pockets only for it to garner favor from a Democratic President in power at the time. When greed became the dominate factor of those union head honchos.... the country is the one who suffered.... yet they wont admit it, but people are not much better off other than bragging rights and perhaps health benefits.

The union reminds me of the Mafia when they first became big, demanding and got 'pay offs' from store owners to KEEP THEM SAFE.... yeah right... it was called Extortion... So this is what I think of the Unions.. it's the same word only done with a smile instead of swimming with the fishes of the sea. Now dont get me wrong... I am not bad mouthing totally the unions... it's just you can't keep asking for more and more and more $$$$ when it's killing the companies of this country.. cause they have to pass the $$$$ on to the public... so when the unions cry cause the items are shipped over seas to be made... they did it to themselves...

Vacaman

You are totally correct when you say the unions have been over bearing on the companies at times. If you look way back at the coal industry the companies would pay less than enough required to survive and eat, they owned the stores where the food was sold, allowed workers to run a tabs and get into debt with them and they soon found themselves indentured to the company. Sometimes for generations. So I would disagree with you when you lump all unions together. Sometimes it isn't that simple, unions certainly have their place, it is in setting an acceptable pay scale for an hours work. Many unions workers make more money per hour but get zero extras like sick leave, vacation pay, holiday pay, and never a severance package. I have always said that if the Dems stop crying about guns and the Reps stop crying about unions we could all find ourselves on common ground.

ibKelly

Well... dont know if all unions are the same in that respect or not.. I only know of one union person now.... did know a lot... but this one man who died some years back... his union paid all of his medical... and it was tremendous... and when his wife had to rush him to the hospt... they lived out in the boonies... that helicopter ride cost over 14 thousands dollars she told me... and the union insurance paid ALL of that.. she wasn't out a dime... Some unions charge more than other unions as far as dues are concerned maybe... I think she told me one time.. that union charged more than the other's she knew of...dunno.

I do know the unions can be mean though.. where I used to work... the owner of the place wanted to get rid of the union men who worked there.. which were 2 of them.. so what he did.. he said they had to work in all areas of that place and not just what their regular work consisted of... well they didnt like that.. but so were forced to leave...

Then that VERY NIGHT, the huge windows above the doors were broken.... cause when I came to work.. I saw all of this.. and the broken thick glass... then I saw a huge and I mean HUGE ball bearing on the floor.. so I knew then.. the union men did it.. cause they were mad... So it was payback for getting rid of the unions.. cause the owner knew they wouldnt work any place in that company so would be forced to quit... which they did....

J Anthony Loc: Connecticut

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, I agree we're not better off now, and that has more than a bit to do with unions' and workers' bargaining power having been decimated... The period from the late 1940s to about the mid 1970s was the peak of union power and at the same time relative wages and the standard of living for the average worker in the U.S. Since then there has been a slow but steady decline. Many of our industrial-union leaders sold out their members because they saw their power waning and let fear get the best of them. They let any thug and shyster run things. Today, you're right, things are getting tougher all over, but it most certainly is not the fault of unions, no matter how much you'd like that to fit your ideology. 😱

J Anthony Loc: Connecticut

So I guess you're a big fan of globalization. Have you noticed the results?

ibKelly

Below this is the very reason I hate the unions..... All those dues collected go for who they want in office to support what they want in the future - much like what Obama has done for them. It was payback for both.... he got their backing and they got the 'White House/wind' behind their sails....

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Union Bosses’ 2014 Hit List: Why Unions Are Using $300 Million to Eliminate Five GOP Governors

Union bosses are reportedly planning to spend $300 million of their members’ money to eliminate five Republican governors during in the 2014 elections.

While union bosses have not released a prioritized list, if they had a list prioritizing which governors are higher in their hit list, it would probably look like this . . . please click here for the rest of the post http://www.redstate.com/2014/02/23/union-bosses-2014-hit-list-unions-using-300-million-eliminate-five-gop-governors/

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

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You are absolutely right. Unions were needed when they were formed. They are not needed now and they are a block of cement around the neck of all Americans. Some people cannot see whole pictures.

It isn't JUST unions that are our problem, though they are definitely a part of it. Another major cause of our troubles today are the restrictions that "governments" place on production, simple living, travel, service, etc. It's as though our federal government has become a great huge garbage can that simply cannot get enough trash to eat and keeps adding and adding and adding more and more oppressive regulations, rules, orders, edicts, to businesses and to individual lives. It has become a smothering weight that is accomplishing NOTHING GOOD and EVERYTHING BAD. Don't know about you all, but I never in my life got to elect a regulator, a person who writes rules for me to follow or go to jail. As far as I am concerned, America needs no regulators. And if we are going to be regulated, I demand we get to vote for or against every particular regulator in every bureau of the US government. Between unions and stupid politicians our economy has been ruined - and for NO GOOD CAUSE anyone can explain to me.

Supposedly we are entitled to have representation in Congress. Anyone know what happened to it? Where did it go. Did it get mugged? I've never had any representation during my lifetime, and I am 75 years old. I want my money and my life back. NOW!

hprinze Loc: Central Florida

This is certainly true, but I believe that management, especially in some industries like auto and steel is partly responsible. Years ago when the unions started making ridiculous demands, management chose ti take the path of least resistance and cave in without much of a fight. They were used to raising prices without much resisrance and raising prices compensated for the labor costs. Along came Japan with high quality and lower prices, That was what, in my opinion, destroyed the U.S. steel and auto industries.