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Four things we learned from the 13 Russian indictments.
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Feb 17, 2018 13:59:54   #
BigMike Loc: yerington nv
 
slatten49 wrote:
That has been likely true in a number of our U.S. Presidents. Both pride & ego, IMO.


Doesn't mean we have to put up with it this time.

Reply
Feb 17, 2018 14:10:26   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
BigMike wrote:
Doesn't mean we have to put up with it this time.

No, it never has. When will it stop? I really don't know.

Hopefully, soon, but....

Reply
Feb 17, 2018 14:13:22   #
BigMike Loc: yerington nv
 
slatten49 wrote:
No, it never has. When will it stop? I really don't know.

Hopefully, soon, but....


It'll stop...just not until after mountains of pain.

Reply
 
 
Feb 17, 2018 14:36:51   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
BigMike wrote:
It'll stop...just not until after mountains of pain.

I don't say you're wrong, Mike, 'cause I don't know. I just hope that you are, or at least in what is perceived as "mountains of pain."

Reply
Feb 17, 2018 18:52:40   #
Mikeyavelli
 
It's all bullmueller. Mueller indictes the unindictable. Go get 'em Mueller. Ride on in to Moscow and lasso them Russians who dissed hilliar on the Internet. What criminals! And, plus, they praised Trump!
Now that's a huge crime, even for an American.

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Feb 17, 2018 19:26:37   #
Big Kahuna
 
slatten49 wrote:
If there is one thing I have learned from posts of yours that I have read, constructive criticism won't come from a lack of critical thinking. And, in that vein, I leave the unintended comedy to you.

Hey, gino, that's two short posts in a row for ya' Better
If there is one thing I have learned from posts of... (show quote)

Sorry about being a little late Slatten but yes you deserve a lot of credit for keeping your replys a little shorter. Kudos to you!! Your spelling is fantastic by the way. 2 for 2 is pretty darn good but don't get big headed, I'm still coming back at you occasionally.

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Feb 17, 2018 19:37:56   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
drlarrygino wrote:
Sorry about being a little late Slatten but yes you deserve a lot of credit for keeping your replys a little shorter. Kudos to you!! Your spelling is fantastic by the way. 2 for 2 is pretty darn good but don't get big headed, I'm still coming back at you occasionally.

I await, while trembling in anticipation.

(BTW, 'replies,' not 'replys')

Reply
 
 
Feb 17, 2018 19:53:23   #
Big Kahuna
 
slatten49 wrote:
I await, while trembling in anticipation.

(BTW, 'replies,' not 'replys')


Good catch slatten, I was waiting to see if you would catch that and you did. Now sleep tight and keep reading your spelling books and dictionary before you doze off.

Reply
Feb 17, 2018 20:07:19   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
drlarrygino wrote:
Good catch slatten, I was waiting to see if you would catch that and you did. Now sleep tight and keep reading your spelling books and dictionary before you doze off.

Not before dinner and a movie with my wife. There's not much entertainment in toying with you.

Try spending your time in comprehending why MLK was neither republican nor democrat. Sorry to have busted the GOP myth for you.

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Feb 17, 2018 20:28:26   #
Big Kahuna
 
slatten49 wrote:
Not before dinner and a movie with my wife. There's not much entertainment in toying with you.

Try spending your time in comprehending why MLK was neither republican nor democrat. Sorry to have busted the GOP myth for you.


There you go again slats, just when I thought we were getting along your leftist passive aggressive nature reared its ugly head. Don't choke on that dog bone that your wife will probably sneak onto your plate at that greasy spoon restaurant you will be taking her to. I heard Debbie Does Dallas was your movie pick for tonight. Good pick for a Texas boy. By the way, are you related to Slats Grobnick from Chicago of Mike Royko fame??

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Feb 17, 2018 20:32:39   #
crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
 
slatten49 wrote:
By Aaron Blake February 16

We have the first indictment in the investigation by Robert S. Mueller III that actually has to do with Russian meddling in the 2016 election. The special counsel on Friday indicted 13 Russians in connection with a large-scale troll farm effort aimed at influencing the election in violation of U.S. law.

The indictment of the Internet Research Agency comes on top of two Trump advisers having pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI — Michael Flynn and George Papadopoulos — and two more being indicted on charges of alleged financial crimes that predated the campaign — Paul Manafort and Rick Gates. Nobody is in custody and Russia does not extradite to the United States, but the document from the secretive Mueller investigation does shed plenty of light where there previously wasn't any.

So what does the new indictment tell us? Here's what we can say right away:

1. It doesn't say the Trump campaign colluded with Russia, but doesn't rule it out either.

Anybody looking for clues about the collusion investigation into the Trump campaign won't find much to grab hold of. If anything, the indictment may hearten Trump allies in that it doesn't draw a line to the campaign, which suggests there was a large-scale effort independent of any possible collusion. Perhaps that's the real meddling effort, some folks in the White House may be telling themselves right now. Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein even specified that Trump campaign officials who were contacted by the Russian nationals “did not know they were communicating with Russians.”

But that's about as much insight as anyone can draw; we simply don't know what else is coming down the pike, and any ties to Trump campaign officials may have been withheld from this indictment to avoid disclosing details of an ongoing investigation. The president hasn't even been interviewed yet, so we wouldn't expect any ties to the campaign at this juncture.

Asked whether campaign officials had knowledge of the scheme or were duped, Rosenstein chose his words carefully. “There is no allegation in this indictment that any American had any knowledge,” Rosenstein said.

The words “in this indictment” mean Rosenstein's comments are pretty narrow.

Update: In a statement, Trump and the White House suggested that the announcement "further indicates ... that there was NO COLLUSION between the Trump campaign and Russia." Again, it doesn't provide any direct indication.

2. It just got a lot harder for Trump to dismiss Mueller's probe as a “witch hunt.”

At one point in the indictment, a price tag is put on the effort: $1.25 million in one month, as of September 2016. To put that in perspective, that's as much as some entire presidential campaigns were spending monthly during the primaries. And that lends credence to the idea that this was a large-scale effort connected to the Russian government.

President Trump has often sought to downplay the idea that Russia interfered in the 2016 election — even suggesting he believed Russian President Vladimir Putin's assurances that it didn't happen. This document lays it out in extensive detail.

The argument that this is a “witch hunt,” which Trump has argued and more than 8 in 10 Republicans believe, just became much more difficult to make. And the document would seem to make pretty clear that the Mueller investigation isn't just targeted at taking down Trump, either.

3. We still have no idea whether Russia flipped the 2016 election (despite Pence's claim).

In his remarks to reporters, Rosenstein also specified that the indictment doesn't determine whether Russia's interference effort changed the results of the 2016 election. He said there was “no allegation in the indictment of any effect on the outcome of the election.”

Some Trump allies quickly got excited about that, thinking that it meant Russia didn't win the race for Trump. But that's not what Rosenstein said. He was merely saying that the indictment doesn't make a determination — just as the intelligence community's report back in January 2017 made no determination. (Nor would we expect either the special counsel or the intelligence community to make such a determination, given that it's almost completely unknowable what impact Russian interference had.)

Some in the White House have misrepresented that intelligence community report, up to and including Trump, CIA Director Mike Pompeo and Vice President Pence. Even this week, Pence said at an Axios event that it was “the universal conclusion of out intelligence communities that none of those efforts had any impact on the outcome of the 2016 election.”

That's just flat wrong. And you can bet that bogus claim will be repeated following Rosenstein's comments today. The good news: Now, you know better.

Update: Sure enough, the White House also claims in a new statement that the indictment "further indicates ... that the outcome of the election was not changed or affected." This is a bogus claim.

4. The effort wasn’t just pro-Trump or anti-Clinton.

The troll farm wasn't just focused on Trump and Hillary Clinton. In fact, it picked sides in both primaries and opposed and supported multiple other candidates.

“They engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump,” the indictment says. It says the troll farm had decided whom it was supporting by February 2016, when the primaries were getting off the ground, and it instructed its specialists to "use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump — we support them.)”

It’s possible the primary advocacy was simply meant to boost Trump and hurt Clinton, but it’s notable that the troll farm effort played in those primaries too.
By Aaron Blake February 16 br br We have the fir... (show quote)



Hey Slatten, an evenhanded comment. But have you ever heard of indicting a ham sandwich? Have you ever had an indictment? Grna juries, if there was one, are one-man shows, with the prosecutor as an MC.

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Feb 17, 2018 20:35:21   #
acknowledgeurma
 
Mikeyavelli wrote:
It's all bullmueller. Mueller indictes the unindictable. Go get 'em Mueller. Ride on in to Moscow and lasso them Russians who dissed hilliar on the Internet. What criminals! And, plus, they praised Trump!
Now that's a huge crime, even for an American.

That's not what the indictment says. USAToday provides the text here:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/16/read-robert-muellers-indictment-13-russian-nationals-election-meddling/346688002/
Which leads to here:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4380632-Indictment.html#document/p3

Even though it is 37 pages, it's not that dense so not too onerous to read.

The indicted are not "unindictable". That's just what the indictment established. It is unlikely that any of them will be brought to trial in the US (barring a careless trip to a country with extradition treaty to US).

What it does do is put on legal record that Russian actors interfered in US elections in violation of US law. So despite what Trump has said so often, Russian interference in our election was not "fake news".

Reply
Feb 17, 2018 22:46:29   #
Mikeyavelli
 
acknowledgeurma wrote:
That's not what the indictment says. USAToday provides the text here:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/16/read-robert-muellers-indictment-13-russian-nationals-election-meddling/346688002/
Which leads to here:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4380632-Indictment.html#document/p3

Even though it is 37 pages, it's not that dense so not too onerous to read.

The indicted are not "unindictable". That's just what the indictment established. It is unlikely that any of them will be brought to trial in the US (barring a careless trip to a country with extradition treaty to US).

What it does do is put on legal record that Russian actors interfered in US elections in violation of US law. So despite what Trump has said so often, Russian interference in our election was not "fake news".
That's not what the indictment says. USAToday prov... (show quote)

Exactly. Now Trump is officially a liar, and the Russians elected him. Albeit, that nobody in the Trump campaign knowingly cooperated with the Russians, it proves that Seth Rich was not, repeat, Seth Rich was not, repeat, Seth Rich was not the guy who sent Wikileaks the thumbnail that exposed the Pederesta Brothers and the DNC and hilliar as fixing the nomination. Nosiree Vladimir, we have the real official obama administration explanation : the Russians did it.

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Feb 18, 2018 05:05:35   #
Alicia Loc: NYC
 
slatten49 wrote:
By Aaron Blake February 16

We have the first indictment in the investigation by Robert S. Mueller III that actually has to do with Russian meddling in the 2016 election. The special counsel on Friday indicted 13 Russians in connection with a large-scale troll farm effort aimed at influencing the election in violation of U.S. law.

*******************
My outrage is that they were involved in our elections regardless of the outcome.

Reply
Feb 18, 2018 06:49:05   #
Hemiman Loc: Communist California
 
moldyoldy wrote:
Either Trump was acting like a fool or he was really trying to obstruct justice and the final outcome of the investigation, perhaps for personal reasons.

Both are true.


Hey weren’t talking about you.

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