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Four things we learned from the 13 Russian indictments.
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Feb 16, 2018 20:43:12   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
proud republican wrote:
So who was your candidate,Slate??

As my post states, PR, "I wrote in Jim Webb." He dropped out as a candidate early on, but remained my choice...given the alternatives.

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Feb 16, 2018 20:47:10   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
proud republican wrote:
I HAVE read it and i even wrote it down,,",NO DETERMINATION THAT ELECTION WAS INFLUENCED AS A RESULT OF RUSSIAN ACTIVITIES "
None of the Russians indicted were Putin operatives or agents of the Russian government, rather they were members of the Russia-based Internet Research Agency, a Russian troll farm in St. Petersburg that was found last year to have purchased $100,000 in political advertisements on Facebook running up to the election.

These Russian conspirators used fake American identities and fictitious bank accounts to do some political rabble rousing by purchasing ads to exploit political and social divisions in the United States. Twitter uncovered 3,800 fake accounts and 50,000 bots tied to the shadowy Russian operation.

The defendants are being charged with conspiracy to defraud the United States; three defendants also face additional charges of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and bank fraud, and five with charges of aggravated identity theft. The indictment describes a conspiracy to alter the U.S. election that involved fraudulently won visas to enter the United States, and a sophisticated operation to reach voters in key states for the purpose of affecting the election through political advertisements, events and social media operations.

Bottom line, these Russian conspirators acted without any connection to their own government and Putin, and without any "collusion" with president-elect Donald Trump or anyone in his campaign. There is no allegation in the indictment that any American knowingly participated in this scheme, and there is no allegation in the indictment that this scheme had any influence on the outcome of the election. In a few instances, some conspirators in this Russian troll farm approached a few unsuspecting members of Trump's campaign posing as supporters, however, none of these contacts were face-to-face, rather with Tweets, email and phone calls. None of the Trump campaigners had a clue who these people were and so thought little of it.

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Feb 16, 2018 20:53:17   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
None of the Russians indicted were Putin operatives or agents of the Russian government, rather they were members of the Russia-based Internet Research Agency, a Russian troll farm in St. Petersburg that was found last year to have purchased $100,000 in political advertisements on Facebook running up to the election.

These Russian conspirators used fake American identities and fictitious bank accounts to do some political rabble rousing by purchasing ads to exploit political and social divisions in the United States. Twitter uncovered 3,800 fake accounts and 50,000 bots tied to the shadowy Russian operation.

The defendants are being charged with conspiracy to defraud the United States; three defendants also face additional charges of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and bank fraud, and five with charges of aggravated identity theft. The indictment describes a conspiracy to alter the U.S. election that involved fraudulently won visas to enter the United States, and a sophisticated operation to reach voters in key states for the purpose of affecting the election through political advertisements, events and social media operations.

Bottom line, these Russian conspirators acted without any connection to their own government and Putin, and without any "collusion" with president-elect Donald Trump or anyone in his campaign. There is no allegation in the indictment that any American knowingly participated in this scheme, and there is no allegation in the indictment that this scheme had any influence on the outcome of the election. In a few instances, some conspirators in this Russian troll farm approached a few unsuspecting members of Trump's campaign posing as supporters, however, none of these contacts were face-to-face, rather with Tweets, email and phone calls. None of the Trump campaigners had a clue who these people were and so thought little of it.
None of the Russians indicted were Putin operative... (show quote)

I'm not gon'na get into any kind of p*ssing contest here, Blade. I have too much respect for you to do so. Besides, your post is pretty much spot on. But, According to Micheal McFaul, former U.S. Ambassador to Russia, nothing like this could have happened without the knowledge and permission of the Kremlin and/or Vladimir Putin. His control, according to McFaul, is that absolute.

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Feb 16, 2018 20:53:37   #
Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA
 
slatten49 wrote:
I was gon'na lose regardless, Dave. I wrote in Jim Webb, as I found neither Trump nor Clinton acceptable.
Trump was low on my GOP list. Near the bottom. But I saw it as an election, not a selection.

Trump has done better than I expected, pretty damned good in some areas.

The deregulation and tax cuts have been great.

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Feb 16, 2018 21:15:29   #
teabag09
 
All of who are in Russia and will NOT be extradited and returned to the US to stand trial. This is nothing more than a waste of more money with Mueller trying to justify this whole charade. Mike
slatten49 wrote:
By Aaron Blake February 16

We have the first indictment in the investigation by Robert S. Mueller III that actually has to do with Russian meddling in the 2016 election. The special counsel on Friday indicted 13 Russians in connection with a large-scale troll farm effort aimed at influencing the election in violation of U.S. law.

The indictment of the Internet Research Agency comes on top of two Trump advisers having pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI — Michael Flynn and George Papadopoulos — and two more being indicted on charges of alleged financial crimes that predated the campaign — Paul Manafort and Rick Gates. Nobody is in custody and Russia does not extradite to the United States, but the document from the secretive Mueller investigation does shed plenty of light where there previously wasn't any.

So what does the new indictment tell us? Here's what we can say right away:

1. It doesn't say the Trump campaign colluded with Russia, but doesn't rule it out either.

Anybody looking for clues about the collusion investigation into the Trump campaign won't find much to grab hold of. If anything, the indictment may hearten Trump allies in that it doesn't draw a line to the campaign, which suggests there was a large-scale effort independent of any possible collusion. Perhaps that's the real meddling effort, some folks in the White House may be telling themselves right now. Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein even specified that Trump campaign officials who were contacted by the Russian nationals “did not know they were communicating with Russians.”

But that's about as much insight as anyone can draw; we simply don't know what else is coming down the pike, and any ties to Trump campaign officials may have been withheld from this indictment to avoid disclosing details of an ongoing investigation. The president hasn't even been interviewed yet, so we wouldn't expect any ties to the campaign at this juncture.

Asked whether campaign officials had knowledge of the scheme or were duped, Rosenstein chose his words carefully. “There is no allegation in this indictment that any American had any knowledge,” Rosenstein said.

The words “in this indictment” mean Rosenstein's comments are pretty narrow.

Update: In a statement, Trump and the White House suggested that the announcement "further indicates ... that there was NO COLLUSION between the Trump campaign and Russia." Again, it doesn't provide any direct indication.

2. It just got a lot harder for Trump to dismiss Mueller's probe as a “witch hunt.”

At one point in the indictment, a price tag is put on the effort: $1.25 million in one month, as of September 2016. To put that in perspective, that's as much as some entire presidential campaigns were spending monthly during the primaries. And that lends credence to the idea that this was a large-scale effort connected to the Russian government.

President Trump has often sought to downplay the idea that Russia interfered in the 2016 election — even suggesting he believed Russian President Vladimir Putin's assurances that it didn't happen. This document lays it out in extensive detail.

The argument that this is a “witch hunt,” which Trump has argued and more than 8 in 10 Republicans believe, just became much more difficult to make. And the document would seem to make pretty clear that the Mueller investigation isn't just targeted at taking down Trump, either.

3. We still have no idea whether Russia flipped the 2016 election (despite Pence's claim).

In his remarks to reporters, Rosenstein also specified that the indictment doesn't determine whether Russia's interference effort changed the results of the 2016 election. He said there was “no allegation in the indictment of any effect on the outcome of the election.”

Some Trump allies quickly got excited about that, thinking that it meant Russia didn't win the race for Trump. But that's not what Rosenstein said. He was merely saying that the indictment doesn't make a determination — just as the intelligence community's report back in January 2017 made no determination. (Nor would we expect either the special counsel or the intelligence community to make such a determination, given that it's almost completely unknowable what impact Russian interference had.)

Some in the White House have misrepresented that intelligence community report, up to and including Trump, CIA Director Mike Pompeo and Vice President Pence. Even this week, Pence said at an Axios event that it was “the universal conclusion of out intelligence communities that none of those efforts had any impact on the outcome of the 2016 election.”

That's just flat wrong. And you can bet that bogus claim will be repeated following Rosenstein's comments today. The good news: Now, you know better.

Update: Sure enough, the White House also claims in a new statement that the indictment "further indicates ... that the outcome of the election was not changed or affected." This is a bogus claim.

4. The effort wasn’t just pro-Trump or anti-Clinton.

The troll farm wasn't just focused on Trump and Hillary Clinton. In fact, it picked sides in both primaries and opposed and supported multiple other candidates.

“They engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump,” the indictment says. It says the troll farm had decided whom it was supporting by February 2016, when the primaries were getting off the ground, and it instructed its specialists to "use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump — we support them.)”

It’s possible the primary advocacy was simply meant to boost Trump and hurt Clinton, but it’s notable that the troll farm effort played in those primaries too.
By Aaron Blake February 16 br br We have the fir... (show quote)

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Feb 16, 2018 21:33:03   #
teabag09
 
And we do the same thing, attempt that is. Usually amounts to nothing. Heck, O did everything in his power to influence the Israeli elections. Plus we don't do internet election voting so the Russians couldn't hack the elections.. They would need thousands of operatives to cover each and every voting station. The dims on the other hand can and have placed operatives at many voting stations, no telling the scull drudgery they have been up to. Remember the ballots found in the trunk of a car? I think that is why the total freak-out over the results of the 2016 elections and why PIAPS didn't worry about campaigning harder.They thought they had it fixed and no way would PIAPS lose. Mike
proud republican wrote:
Slatten,why dont you also report that the whole Russian interference started in 2013 during Obama Admin when he laughed at Mitt Romney saying that no Russians or anybody else can mess with our elections,that 1980's are over!!!.....Yes Russians messed with our elections, but like i was saying it before they started long before 2016 elections!!!

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Feb 16, 2018 21:37:44   #
teabag09
 
Hilary even said that if President Trump won, "We'll all hang" and I think she was referring to rinos and dems in congress as well as agency people. SO much CORRUPTION, going on for so long, from everywhere. Mike
mongo wrote:
IMO, the Russians would have liked to see Hillary exposed for the deals she made with countries that are bent on destroying
American interests around the globe. They hoped that the interference would not be recognized by our country so that everything
would look legitimate in the eyes of our government.
Basically, they wanted to throw Hillary under the bus for any wrong doing. She did everything for personal gain, and didn't expect
to be caught. She had no intention of following through with her billion dollar deals.
So many representatives are involved, that there is a race to cover for their participation in these crimes.
The only way they can make everything disappear is to take down Trump.
If they don't, there will be many going to prison for their involvement!

SEMPER FI
IMO, the Russians would have liked to see Hillary ... (show quote)

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Feb 16, 2018 21:42:54   #
teabag09
 
After listening to Rosenshit twice I'd say that he basically didn't say crap. It was all deflection to me. And why is that traitor still collecting a Govt. pay check and not in jail? Mike
slatten49 wrote:
You might wan'na re-read that part of the article, PR.....

'In his remarks to reporters, Rosenstein also specified that the indictment doesn't determine whether Russia's interference effort changed the results of the 2016 election. He said there was “no allegation in the indictment of any effect on the outcome of the election.”

Some Trump allies quickly got excited about that, thinking that it meant Russia didn't win the race for Trump. But that's not what Rosenstein said. He was merely saying that the indictment doesn't make a determination — just as the intelligence community's report back in January 2017 made no determination. (Nor would we expect either the special counsel or the intelligence community to make such a determination, given that it's almost completely unknowable what impact Russian interference had.)'

'Update: Sure enough, the White House also claims in a new statement that the indictment "further indicates ... that the outcome of the election was not changed or affected." This is a bogus claim.'

You might want to read the article again, PR, as you either skipped parts of it, or miscomprehended them. You even misquoted what Rosenstein said. He said there was “no allegation in the indictment of any effect on the outcome of the election.”

Update: Sure enough, the White House also claims in a new statement that the indictment "further indicates ... that the outcome of the election was not changed or affected." This is a bogus claim.
You might wan'na re-read that part of the article,... (show quote)

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Feb 16, 2018 21:45:26   #
teabag09
 
Jim Webb is a decorated Marine but he's a floppable. Not trust worthy in my mind. Mike
slatten49 wrote:
I was gon'na lose regardless, Dave. I wrote in Jim Webb, as I found neither Trump nor Clinton acceptable.

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Feb 16, 2018 21:52:12   #
PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.
 
teabag09 wrote:
All of who are in Russia and will NOT be extradited and returned to the US to stand trial. This is nothing more than a waste of more money with Mueller trying to justify this whole charade. Mike


Also my take on it.

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Feb 16, 2018 21:53:07   #
moldyoldy
 
proud republican wrote:
I HAVE read it and i even wrote it down,,",NO DETERMINATION THAT ELECTION WAS INFLUENCED AS A RESULT OF RUSSIAN ACTIVITIES "


You are definitely a Russian bot, always stirring up the right wingers. How much is putin paying you?

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Feb 16, 2018 21:54:21   #
Hemiman Loc: Communist California
 
slatten49 wrote:
You might wan'na re-read that part of the article, PR.....

'In his remarks to reporters, Rosenstein also specified that the indictment doesn't determine whether Russia's interference effort changed the results of the 2016 election. He said there was “no allegation in the indictment of any effect on the outcome of the election.”

Some Trump allies quickly got excited about that, thinking that it meant Russia didn't win the race for Trump. But that's not what Rosenstein said. He was merely saying that the indictment doesn't make a determination — just as the intelligence community's report back in January 2017 made no determination. (Nor would we expect either the special counsel or the intelligence community to make such a determination, given that it's almost completely unknowable what impact Russian interference had.)'

'Update: Sure enough, the White House also claims in a new statement that the indictment "further indicates ... that the outcome of the election was not changed or affected." This is a bogus claim.'

You might want to read the article again, PR, as you either skipped parts of it, or miscomprehended them. You even misquoted what Rosenstein said. He said there was “no allegation in the indictment of any effect on the outcome of the election.”

Update: Sure enough, the White House also claims in a new statement that the indictment "further indicates ... that the outcome of the election was not changed or affected." This is a bogus claim.
You might wan'na re-read that part of the article,... (show quote)


It was and is a witch hunt ,Mueller got lucky and picked up a couple of dumb Russians on the side,collateral luck or he would still be standing there with his bare face hanging out.Dumb luck.

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Feb 16, 2018 22:00:55   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
teabag09 wrote:
Jim Webb is a decorated Marine but he's a floppable. Not trust worthy in my mind. Mike

As I wrote earlier, Mike...IMO, "given the alternatives."

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Feb 16, 2018 22:32:12   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
slatten49 wrote:
I'm not gon'na get into any kind of p*ssing contest here, Blade. I have too much respect for you to do so. Besides, your post is pretty much spot on. But, According to Micheal McFaul, former U.S. Ambassador to Russia, nothing like this could have happened without the knowledge and permission of the Kremlin and/or Vladimir Putin. His control, according to McFaul, is that absolute.
Okay, I'll give you that, but my question is, why do you suppose Putin would prefer dealing with Trump rather than Hillary? Right now the Russian economy is on the verge of collapse, who do you think would be more amenable to working with Russia, not only in the economic realm, but helping to straighten out the mess Putin has got himself into in the Middle East? Even though Putin is a brutal dictator, he ain't no dumbie, and all that have been able to read about him, the things he has said, lead me to believe that he does not want to wage a major war against the United States, that he would rather work with us in some fashion in hopes of saving his federation. Hillary as president would have been an unmitigated disaster in every respect.

I believe you mentioned somewhere that Jim Webb was your write in vote for POTUS. I must say that he would have been, not only a formidable opponent, but had he run and won, Webb would have been far more acceptable to me as president than Hillary Clinton or that senile socialist Sanders. I loved Webb's book Born Fighting, I have a copy around here somewhere.

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Feb 16, 2018 22:36:15   #
proud republican Loc: RED CALIFORNIA
 
moldyoldy wrote:
You are definitely a Russian bot, always stirring up the right wingers. How much is putin paying you?


LOL,Moldy, for sure YOU couldnt afford me!!!! Besides if i tell you i would have to...........you know whats coming next!!!

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