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Nov 17, 2017 10:34:37   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
2bltap wrote:
My question is this. Why does it matter if a big corporation gets tax relief? The top percentage of thoose with money are the ones that have created most of the jobs in this counntry so whats wrong with them getting some slack cut? All this BS pertaining to "THE FAIR SHARE ISSUE" that has been pushed by mostly the Democrats i sredicuales. Who's right is it to determine what that fair share is supposed to be? Other than those of wealth that were born into it which is the smaller percentage, the owners of those companies that have done extremely well shoulld be able to keep as much of the profits as they see fit. So what is the big deal?
Semper Fi
My question is this. Why does it matter if a big ... (show quote)



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Nov 17, 2017 10:37:57   #
MS. FACTUAL
 
PeterS wrote:
The current effective corporate tax rate (what they actually pay) is 12.6%. I have no problem if corporate taxes are lowered so long as all the deductions that leave them paying a lower rate than we do individually are eliminated. The thing is, all those deductions are going to stay in tact which is why I don't support a corporate tax cut...

http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/01/news/economy/corporate-tax-rate/index.html


Note your source, CNN..that speaks for itself...Commie News Network...back to your welfare checks....

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Nov 17, 2017 10:44:36   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
2bltap wrote:
Excellant answers from all of you! Thank you. Like I said though I think that those who start a business and become wealthy as a result good for them. However, I will say this. First Im not smart enough in this areana to argue intelligently about this subject. But I do think that there are way to many laws and regulations that are so murky that allow the more nefarious of these companies to cheat. I really wish I had studied better in my college business classes.
Semper Fi


No law can be written to cover all possible contingencies. It would take most of the forests of the world to print such a law. That said, corporations hire platoons of accountants and tax lawyers to seek out vulnerabilities in tax laws and establish strategies for their corporations operations, which will minimize tax impact. These people are experts, in cash flow analysis, investment practices and a host of other financial esoterica which most of us never knew existed. It is not illegal, it takes advantage of what is commonly called "loopholes" in the law. It makes good business sense to take payment for services in specific manners, times, and places. It is never illegal to avoid taxes, the crime is in evading taxes.

However, our lawmakers introduce legislation to regulate and define the legal practice for a host of matters. Are these Congress people Einsteins with an encyclopedic knowledge of all things? Given the stupidity of their public utterances that is patently absurd; so where do these laws come from? The answer is that lobbyists who represent the exact industry being regulated for tax purposes write most industry specific legislation. They build in the gray areas and slippery loopholes used by corporations to "avoid" taxes.

Why does Congress go along with what is known to be self-serving action by lobbyists? That is where the money comes from to get re-elected. Introducing legislation provided by the industries being regulated brings big contributions, directly and indirectly. How often have you read of some congressman accepting plane trips or vacations from a corporation. These are the individuals who got out of step and their peccadilloes are exposed. The reality is these practices are pervasive and a fact of life for our bought and paid for government.

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Nov 17, 2017 10:46:41   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Kevyn wrote:
Corporations enjoy the majority of government services and should pay for them. Look at our military adventures over seas, they are not protecting us from invasion or attack they protect the interests of multinational corporations. Not taxing overseas earnings encourages corporations to move operations overseas. Adjusting tax law to penalize offshoring, along with stiff tariffs on imports would do much more to bring relief to working families. Most wealthy Americans are not self made but came to wealth from inheritance and built on that. Is it realy reasonable that an emergency room nurse pay a significantly larger portion of her income than a Jett setting trust fund playboy who “makes a living” from hedge fund investment. Don’t get me wrong the middle class workers could use tax relief and most of it would go directly into the economy. However it should be balanced with taxing capitol gains as income and taxing all capital that is moved off shore.
Corporations enjoy the majority of government serv... (show quote)


Where do you get your stats?

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Nov 17, 2017 11:01:26   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
JFlorio wrote:
What specific tax breaks are the rich getting? Most super wealthy don't get "rich" at our expense forcibly. They provide a good or service we want or have . See Apple as an example. Taxing them at 90% wouldnt lift anyone out of the poor house.



Mathematicians have shown that if every single person, business and corporation were taxed at 100% the national debt would not be paid in 2000 years. Now imagine the unfunded liabilities very near 200 trillion dollars.

Since paying off our national debt or unfunded liability is an impossibility.
What one single act is needed, that defies liberals? Rhetorical question.... Smaller government both state and federal, lower spending, and only then lower taxes for all

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Nov 17, 2017 11:07:21   #
Louie27 Loc: Peoria, AZ
 
debeda wrote:
Because the giant maw of the government wants more and more and more $$$$ and they've bled everyone else dry.


So, with the rich paying over 70% of the collected, federal tax revenue, is not enough for you. How do they bleed everyone dry? Most of them are in the business of providing jobs that makes their money. What if every business went overseas and made their products there? Then we would lose all of those jobs and become like the third world countries. You are incredibly confused about who creates jobs and products in this country.

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Nov 17, 2017 11:12:03   #
Chocura750
 
Those tremendous incomes are the product of the efforts of millions of people who get paid very little.

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Nov 17, 2017 11:17:53   #
Louie27 Loc: Peoria, AZ
 
PeterS wrote:
Why are they going to create new jobs? You do understand that in business it's the customer who pays an employee's wages don't you? What I mean is that no company hires someone unless the demand for their product is already there. I've been in business for 35 years and never signed a check that wasn't already paid for by sales. If sales are going up you hire to meet the demand. If sales are going down then you lay off accordingly. Cutting a corporations taxes will have no effect on how businesses hire or give raises to their employees.
Why are they going to create new jobs? You do unde... (show quote)


That is because you only provided for your own market in this country, not for world consumption. Yoou need to get real.

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Nov 17, 2017 11:19:20   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Louie27 wrote:
So, with the rich paying over 70% of the collected, federal tax revenue, is not enough for you. How do they bleed everyone dry? Most of them are in the business of providing jobs that makes their money. What if every business went overseas and made their products there? Then we would lose all of those jobs and become like the third world countries. You are incredibly confused about who creates jobs and products in this country.
So, with the rich paying over 70% of the collected... (show quote)


The uneducated earn less, and since liberals are the ones complaining about the low earnings? It's the lame argument of the lazy wanting $25. Minimum wage

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Nov 17, 2017 11:35:05   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
Larry the Legend wrote:
You're describing the symptoms and not the underlying disease. For instance, you say that expenses are increasing. No argument here. But why are expenses increasing? What is it that causes prices and costs to escalate and deprive the poor working stiff of his hard-earned paycheck? If you dig all the way down to the bottom of this rotten deal, what do you find looking back at you? Inflation.

What creates inflation?

Inflation is the result of lax monetary policy. If the money supply grows by the introduction of new money, the unit value of the currency diminishes; in other words, its purchasing power falls and prices rise. This relationship between the money supply and the size of the economy is called the quantity theory of money, and is one of the oldest hypotheses in economics.

Who creates inflation?

Central banks control the rates of interest in a given economy and have the ability to inject money into an economy through government issue of bonds that are then 'monetized' using the ability to literally create money from nothing. Government issues the bond, the central bank credits the government with the face value of the bond, and government is free to spend this into the economy, thus expanding the money supply and reducing the value of money already in existence. Since the value of money decreases, prices increase to compensate. And that's how we 'observe' inflation. The rising prices are the symptom, not the cause.

How do we 'fix' it?

Repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. No central banking system, no inflation.
You're describing the symptoms and not the underly... (show quote)


One hundred percent correct. There are three main evils which have corrupted our government. The Fed is the first, not imposing term limits on governmental service is the second and defining corporations as persons is the third.

Elimination of any one of these three would effect a major improvement in all Americans lives. A Captain of a commercial fishing boat used to tell me that, "When a fish stinks, it stinks from the head". Whether this is true or not, the fact is that the problem is the giovernment. We all need to demand one of these evils be rectified and when achieved turn our atttention to the others.

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Nov 17, 2017 11:40:41   #
Louie27 Loc: Peoria, AZ
 
PeterS wrote:
They do? Why does California have the 6th largest economy in the world?


Probably because of all of the illegals they have in that state, working for less money than most Americans. Illegals have undermined the wage scale of most Americans in the areas where there is a great number of illegals working and taking jobs away from American workers and legal residents of this country.

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Nov 17, 2017 11:41:44   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
pafret wrote:
One hundred percent correct. There are three main evils which have corrupted our government. The Fed is the first, not imposing term limits on governmental service is the second and defining corporations as persons is the third.

Elimination of any one of these three would effect a major improvement in all Americans lives. A Captain of a commercial fishing boat used to tell me that, "When a fish stinks, it stinks from the head". Whether this is true or not, the fact is that the problem is the giovernment. We all need to demand one of these evils be rectified and when achieved turn our atttention to the others.
One hundred percent correct. There are three main... (show quote)



With the exception of corporations that are run by boards, not "an' individual. And many of these that payout high salaries also spend hundreds of millions to billions in research and development employing tens of thousands. Taxing them as a person would cost thousands of jobs, less research and development as well as expansion.

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Nov 17, 2017 11:44:33   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Louie27 wrote:
Probably because of all of the illegals they have in that state, working for less money than most Americans. Illegals have undermined the wage scale of most Americans in the areas where there is a great number of illegals working and taking jobs away from American workers and legal residents of this country.



Your 100% correct and can be backed with empirical evidence, unless you are reading fake news studies.

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Nov 17, 2017 11:50:38   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
JFlorio wrote:
Wrong.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeleef/2013/12/06/trickle-down-economics-the-most-destructive-phrase-of-all-time/#1f11c3755891

Actually wrong and right. Supply side economics can and has worked. It can also if stimulated with to deep of tax cuts explode the deficit and increase unemployment. The economy has so many moving parts that a one size fits all doesn’t work anymore. We can only increase long term growth in one way. Reduction in government expenditures. DC won’t? Why? There will be pain in the short term. Everyone needs a govt haircut from those receiving food stamps to the big boys receiving corporate welfare. So if DC and the American people won’t cut government spending what will happen? My opinion, we are on a huge bubble, it will burst. Always does. Why’s this different? Ask yourself, what have we always done in the past? We have either cut taxes and or the Fed has dropped interest rates. Or we could print a boat load of “stimulus’ money and give to the banks. While the entire time the Fed is keeping interest rates historically low. This is what we did under Obama. So, when this bubble bursts what do we do? Can’t lower interest rates any lower. Printing tons more money is just going to make the dollars buying power worthless. In a nutshell. We are screwed.
Wrong. br br https://www.forbes.com/sites/georg... (show quote)


Giving everyone a "haircut" seems a little inequitable when the consequences for the poor, on food stamps is starvation and death, whereas the wealthy will experience a reduction in income but they remain wealthy. We could print stimulus money but instead of giving it to the banks we could distribute it to all citizens at or below the median income level. These people will promptly spend it on all sorts of silly things like visiting a doctor or dentist, putting a new roof on their house, replacing a clapped out, rust bucket car. Its called trickle up prosperity, the wealthy who invest in stocks will garner increased return on their investments when the factories gear up for more production and sales. Just imagine what would have happened if Obama had dumped ten trillion dollars into the hands of people who would immediately spend it on durable hard goods and housing. It might even cause a rebirth of American manufacturing.

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Nov 17, 2017 12:01:25   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
Larry the Legend wrote:
You know, you're right. People should pay for the goods and services they receive as a proportion of their net worth and income. Next time you go to Macdonald's, tell the counter server to charge you based on your income and to do the same for everybody else in the restaurant. That's only 'fair', right? The poor guy gets his big mac for a dime while the millionaire gets his for $10,000. That way we can all enjoy the same quality of life as everyone else, and nobody gets more than his 'fair share'.

Or, on the other hand, we could simply add up the bill for government spending for the year, divide that by the number of people and send each one a bill for the same amount. You know, like buying something at the store, where we all pay the same for the same things. Isn't that 'fair' too?

Of course, there is a third way, simply return government to its original purpose and function and make it pay for its operations out of tariffs like in the good old days when everyone had 'real' money in their pockets. But you wouldn't want that, would you?
You know, you're right. People should pay for the... (show quote)


Good reductio ad absurdum ! Your last pargraph, unfortunately, is only likely to happen when pigs fly.

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