Dave Loc: Upstate New York

Wow - Pelosi didn't do the same?

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

Did or did not essential government operations continue? Did or did not the Administration interpret what was essential? Use all the tea party and right wing BS that helps you savle your conscience on this issue - but the entire government did not shut down - only those portions of the government Obama and his people determined to be non essential - call me a right wing nut all you want, but pretend that the entire government, including the military, shut down if you need be in order to maintain your Obamaism beliefs.

Liberty Tree

I know you are smart enough to know that the Obama worshippers will never accept the truth no matter how much evidence is given them.

RetNavyCWO Loc: VA suburb of DC

You really don't have a clue what you write about, do you?

There are long-standing, written regulations about what are "essential functions" of the government and the military. You act as if Obama personally or his immediate staff decided which of the 4.1 million federal workers would carry out essential functions during the shutdown. It simply doesn't work that way. Besides essential functions, other employees whose pay or functions are not subject to annual appropriations also worked. In total, there were about 800,000 federal employees who were furloughed. Death gratuities for surviving family members are subject to annual appropriations approved by Congress. If the money is not appropriated, there is no mechanism for it to be paid. I've never said that ALL federal employees were shut down. Once again, you put words in my mouth that I never said.

Dave, I really and truly am done arguing with you about this. You don't even try to understand the issues and only spout talking points you learned in your bubble. Worse, you keep saying that I said things I never said. This could go on forever. I'm done with this.

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

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You say, "You act as if Obama personally or his immediate staff decided which of the 4.1 million federal workers would carry out essential functions during the shutdown. It simply doesn't work that way."

So why did Obama order the Memorials off limits when they have no employees stationed there and have NEVER been closed down before when "government shut down", euphamism for "time to gut the sheep".

RetNavyCWO Loc: VA suburb of DC

Obama didn't "order the Memorials off limits." Their funding for security and maintenance is annually appropriated (authorized by Congress). They were shut down because they weren't funded. I don't know whether they were closed during previous shut-downs. Maybe their funding was allocated differently then ... or maybe people were simply allowed on the grounds because nobody cared. The Tea Partiers responsible for the shut-down deserved to be recognized for what they did, and they were obliged! That's what they wanted after all, wasn't it? Attention for their cause? Kind of like legislative terrorists! I especially liked how they sent Michelle Bachman and other wingnutters down there! There is no end to their silliness!

I believe you are incorrect about "no employees stationed there." I don't visit them much anymore, but I have lived in the DC area off and on for over 30 years, and I see workers cutting grass, sweeping, washing, and emptying trash cans around the monuments when I drive by once in a while. What do you think happens to all those paper cups, plastic water bottles, hot dog wrappers and napkins when the thousands of people who visit every day are done with them? And some of the monuments do have security guards posted. Pay attention next time you visit!

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

You're dead wrong about the memorials. Sorry.

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

I am truly sorry your religous fervor blinds you to even what was widely reported at the time - DoD officials interpreted the limited CR to preclude the gratuities to the families. Further, when that became known, Obama threatened to veto any bill that specifically stated those gratutities are to be continued - and a bill was passed by both house and was signed by him despite saying he wouldn't because cleary his veto would have been overridden - and all of that happened before the overal budget approval that re-opened the government. Denying pure and simple facts is important to you - and frankly I don't believe for a second you are not truly aware that what I say is exactly the truth - or you really aren't either a retired military or you ignore issues related to those currently in the military on purpose.

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

This alleged military retired guy seems to be dead set against recognizing any truth that is less than positive regarding Obama - folks like him have blind faith like Christians have in their messiah. I am an agnostic while my wife has deep religous, Christian, beliefs. I respect her beliefs and we both acknowledge that her faith is a gift - this guys faith may not be so much of a gift, but mabye Obama will save him despite what the rest of us know.

RetNavyCWO Loc: VA suburb of DC

Would you care to explain that? That's kind of a drive-by shooting, don't you think? You say I'm "dead wrong" with certainty, but you don't provide anything to support it. Are you sure you aren't just choosing to believe that because the Tea Partiers tried to portray it that way?

I have seen trash collectors and landscapers and security guards at memorials many times. Who picks up the trash and cuts the grass? Who provides security to make sure our national treasures aren't absconded with or vandalized? I think all that hoopla was just political grandstanding to deflect the bad ramifications of the shut-down onto Obama.

RetNavyCWO Loc: VA suburb of DC

You just have your facts wrong, Dave. Any time someone resorts to personal insults, as you keep doing over and over again, they lose their credibility. You have no credibility, Dave. You can keep repeating your nonsense over and over again, but it is not going to make it true. Obama signed nothing involving the death gratuity until he signed the clean CR with no amendments.

My military service of 20-40 years ago has nothing to do with this. Shame on you for trying to make it so. I work today administering programs that support disabled soldiers and surviving families of soldiers who die on active duty. I pay closer attention to this kind of thing than most people, especially you. You are getting your info from your wingnut websites. Bad idea.

I know I said once before that I am done with you, and I have gone back on that with this response. I won't do so again. Keep repeating your bullshit all you want. Maybe some weak-minded individuals will believe you.

Beating a dead horse, Dave.

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

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Exactly WHO do you think is going to walk off with the War Memorial? For your reading:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/02/monuments-and-memorials-remained-open-during-previous-shutdown/ "Monuments and memorials remained open during previous shutdown"

http://www.stripes.com/news/wwii-veterans-storm-dc-memorial-closed-by-government-shutdown-1.244447 "WWII veterans storm DC memorial closed by government shutdown"

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20131013/OPINION02/710139961
"Obama seems happy to close war memorials"

http://theulstermanreport.com/2013/10/02/confirmed-obama-ordered-shut-down-of-wwii-memorial-that-is-always-open/
"CONFIRMED: Obama Ordered Shut Down Of WWII Memorial That Is Always Open…"

Liberty Tree

You are smart enough to know that facts and truth do not matter to them. It will always be defend Obama and blame everyone else no matter what the evidence is.

RetNavyCWO Loc: VA suburb of DC

There you go...bouncing around in your bubble again. Twist it however you want. It doesn't matter.

RetNavyCWO Loc: VA suburb of DC

By "limited CR", are you referring to the "Pay Our Military Act"? If you are not, I finally understand what you are trying to say. Had to slice off layers of Tea Party spin from your words, but I see what you were trying to say now. The difference between us, and the crux of this disagreement, is that I KNOW what the Pay Our Military Act funded, and it wasn't death gratuities to surviving families. That is what it seemed to me you were talking about because you kept putting a TP spin to your comments about DOD "interpreting" it, when it is clear that it covers only essential military and civilian operations. You seemed so certain that I went back and looked at other legislation that was enacted during the shut-down to see if there was anything else going on that you could be talking about. I see now that you are probably referring to H.J. Resolution 91, ""Department of Defense Survivor Benefits Continuing Appropriations Resolution, 2014".

If that is what you were talking about, I concede: there was separate legislation that temporarily funded the death gratuity until the permanent authority of the CR was passed.

I could have, and would have, agreed earlier if you had not insisted on injecting some kind of nefarious Tea Party spin by DOD or Obama and been more specific about what legislation you were talking about. Once I figured out what you were NOT talking about, I was able to find it easily.

My apologies for suggesting you live on another planet. You only talk like you do.