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Apr 1, 2017 09:47:03   #
chuckybrass
 
saltwind 78 wrote:
tom, Being an old American history and government teacher, I have to give you a 0 for your incorrect answer. The Democratic Party has its roots in the old Republican- Democratic Party founded by Thomas Jefferson. It greater shape under Jackson, long before communism was founded by Karl Marx in 1848 with the writing of the Communist Manifesto. The Democratic Party was first established as the party of the farmer. Later it became the party of the slave owners in the South. Under FDR, it became the party of the working man, although it was the more democratic of the parties long before that. Most Progressives of the early 20th century were Democrats, as were most unions. You are right about the robber barons. They were Republicans that spouted the same social evolution and laissez faire capitalism as the Republican Party of today.
The liberal philosophy actually was that of the new factory owner class of Europe. At that time the old aristocracy was at war with the liberals. Both classes were struggling to gain power. The conservatives of the day were champions of the old land owning aristocracy. The socialists became the voice of the workers and represented their interests.
In the United States, the socialists never gained popularity with the workers, because they embraced unions. As you know, the unions in many cases were controlled by the various Democratic Party machines like Tameny Hall in New York.
The Democratic Party evolved into the Party of the workers and many of the American Middle Class. It has also become the champion of civil rights since the days of JFK and Martin Luther King Jr. The Republican Party has become the party of the well- to- do and many blue collar workers that became dissatisfied with the Democrats, mostly because of fear of Black workers migrating to the North, and fleeing segregation in the South. Thats pretty much where it stands today.
If I were you, I would be concerned with the corruption of the Republicans. Republican legislatures like our VP, sell their votes to the super wealthy. The Democrats while corrupt as well sometimes do the same.
tom, Being an old American history and government ... (show quote)


Spoken like a true liberal teacher --- you and your ilk are what's wrong with society today. Thanks for the history lesson. BTW, did you know most of us came from other countries in the past? That's just a technicality. Unfortunately today, most of those left in the Democrat Party are socialist or communist. In case you don't understand politics, let me explain. A socialist is a communist in the making. Merely semantics. Thus the lesson. Perhaps you should do your homework in the here and now. I'm sure bank robbers and murderers started out as good people when they were babies..........

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Apr 1, 2017 10:27:40   #
saltwind 78 Loc: Murrells Inlet, South Carolina
 
JW, Thanks for the correction, but you are wrong about the progressives and the communists being the same. They are entirely different. The Progressive movement came about before World War One. It was a movement that was most concerned about the welfare of the urban factory worker. It didn't advocate violent overthrow of capitalist society. Like the liberals of today, it wanted regulation of capitalism. It recognized that the monopolies had so much power that they could buy government officials to protect their interests, just as they do today. Unlike the liberals of today, they had no interest in helping the rural Black Americans. A good example of the old progressives was Woodrow Wilson who was in every way a Southern white supremacist. They also had no interest in helping the rural white people. That grew to be the area that was taken care of by the grange. Unfortunately, the grange deteriorated into a racist, populist organization.
Today's liberal/progressives are very much believers in capitalism. They fully recognize the failure of Marxism. It simply doesn't work and leads to economic collapse and dictatorship. They also know that the unions have been under attack by the capitalist class and no longer has the power to protect the interests of the working stiffs. That is the mission of the liberals today. We are pro democracy, pro capitalism, anti racism and for the protection of the American dream of working people to own a home, educate their children and have enough for a comfortable retirement. If the billionaires have their way, there would be no real democracy, just a government that protects the billionaires and their power! America is for every citizen, not just the Kochs and Trumps of the world!
JW wrote:
You're only partly right, salty. First, Jefferson's party was the Democratic Republicans, not the other way around. Secondly, as long as you are using a small 'l', Democrats and Republicans are both included. Finally, there is no significant difference between Progressives and Communists; both are Marxist socialists.

Reply
Apr 1, 2017 10:34:23   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
saltwind 78 wrote:
tom, Being an old American history and government teacher, I have to give you a 0 for your incorrect answer. The Democratic Party has its roots in the old Republican- Democratic Party founded by Thomas Jefferson. It greater shape under Jackson, long before communism was founded by Karl Marx in 1848 with the writing of the Communist Manifesto. The Democratic Party was first established as the party of the farmer. Later it became the party of the slave owners in the South. Under FDR, it became the party of the working man, although it was the more democratic of the parties long before that. Most Progressives of the early 20th century were Democrats, as were most unions. You are right about the robber barons. They were Republicans that spouted the same social evolution and laissez faire capitalism as the Republican Party of today.
The liberal philosophy actually was that of the new factory owner class of Europe. At that time the old aristocracy was at war with the liberals. Both classes were struggling to gain power. The conservatives of the day were champions of the old land owning aristocracy. The socialists became the voice of the workers and represented their interests.
In the United States, the socialists never gained popularity with the workers, because they embraced unions. As you know, the unions in many cases were controlled by the various Democratic Party machines like Tameny Hall in New York.
The Democratic Party evolved into the Party of the workers and many of the American Middle Class. It has also become the champion of civil rights since the days of JFK and Martin Luther King Jr. The Republican Party has become the party of the well- to- do and many blue collar workers that became dissatisfied with the Democrats, mostly because of fear of Black workers migrating to the North, and fleeing segregation in the South. Thats pretty much where it stands today.
If I were you, I would be concerned with the corruption of the Republicans. Republican legislatures like our VP, sell their votes to the super wealthy. The Democrats while corrupt as well sometimes do the same.
tom, Being an old American history and government ... (show quote)


Slip sliding all the way thru to end up with the big lie. You are obviously a student of the modern makeover of American history.

Reply
 
 
Apr 1, 2017 10:35:44   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
chuckybrass wrote:
Spoken like a true liberal teacher --- you and your ilk are what's wrong with society today. Thanks for the history lesson. BTW, did you know most of us came from other countries in the past? That's just a technicality. Unfortunately today, most of those left in the Democrat Party are socialist or communist. In case you don't understand politics, let me explain. A socialist is a communist in the making. Merely semantics. Thus the lesson. Perhaps you should do your homework in the here and now. I'm sure bank robbers and murderers started out as good people when they were babies..........
Spoken like a true liberal teacher --- you and you... (show quote)



Reply
Apr 1, 2017 10:59:18   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
saltwind 78 wrote:
JW, Thanks for the correction, but you are wrong about the progressives and the communists being the same. They are entirely different. The Progressive movement came about before World War One. It was a movement that was most concerned about the welfare of the urban factory worker. It didn't advocate violent overthrow of capitalist society. Like the liberals of today, it wanted regulation of capitalism. It recognized that the monopolies had so much power that they could buy government officials to protect their interests, just as they do today. Unlike the liberals of today, they had no interest in helping the rural Black Americans. A good example of the old progressives was Woodrow Wilson who was in every way a Southern white supremacist. They also had no interest in helping the rural white people. That grew to be the area that was taken care of by the grange. Unfortunately, the grange deteriorated into a racist, populist organization.
Today's liberal/progressives are very much believers in capitalism. They fully recognize the failure of Marxism. It simply doesn't work and leads to economic collapse and dictatorship. They also know that the unions have been under attack by the capitalist class and no longer has the power to protect the interests of the working stiffs. That is the mission of the liberals today. We are pro democracy, pro capitalism, anti racism and for the protection of the American dream of working people to own a home, educate their children and have enough for a comfortable retirement. If the billionaires have their way, there would be no real democracy, just a government that protects the billionaires and their power! America is for every citizen, not just the Kochs and Trumps of the world!
JW, Thanks for the correction, but you are wrong a... (show quote)


Well that's a rosy bunch of BS. Proof positive how easy it is to fool people with a weak value system. Did Obama increase or decrease the poor and middle class? Who profited under Obama? Only the rich. Who did he say was stealing from you? He said the rich. Who supported both Obama and Hillary? Wall Street. Who doubled the national debt? Obama did - he spent more than all previous presidents combined. Where did all the money go? He immediately appropriated $800 billion for infrastructures. Where did all that money go? Remember the shovel ready job lie? You are a dedicated believer in the Marxist progressive great lie. It's permanently indoctrinated. You will never be able to change. Then there is all the so called "social changes" you advocate. You're a goner! No hope. You don't know it but you're nothing but a progressive amoral zombie. From the Democrat to a liberal to a Progressive? Something ain't kosher when you have to constantly redefine yourself.

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Apr 1, 2017 11:15:22   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
Kinda like climate change. Global cooling didn't work. Global warming didn't work. Now it's climate change. They always have to redefine because their beliefs are not grounded in reality.
padremike wrote:
Well that's a rosy bunch of BS. Proof positive how easy it is to fool people with a weak value system. Did Obama increase or decrease the poor and middle class? Who profited under Obama? Only the rich. Who did he say was stealing from you? He said the rich. Who supported both Obama and Hillary? Wall Street. Who doubled the national debt? Obama did - he spent more than all previous presidents combined. Where did all the money go? He immediately appropriated $800 billion for infrastructures. Where did all that money go? Remember the shovel ready job lie? You are a dedicated believer in the Marxist progressive great lie. It's permanently indoctrinated. You will never be able to change. Then there is all the so called "social changes" you advocate. You're a goner! No hope. You don't know it but you're nothing but a progressive amoral zombie. From the Democrat to a liberal to a Progressive? Something ain't kosher when you have to constantly redefine yourself.
Well that's a rosy bunch of BS. Proof positive ho... (show quote)

Reply
Apr 1, 2017 11:32:24   #
I.R. Wayright
 
"That is the mission of the liberals today. We are pro democracy, pro capitalism, anti racism and for the protection of the American dream of working people to own a home, educate their children and have enough for a comfortable retirement. If the billionaires have their way, there would be no real democracy, just a government that protects the billionaires and their power! America is for every citizen, not just the Kochs and Trumps of the world!"

That is enough horseshit to fertilize a good sized garden.
Liberals mission is to destroy capitalism, which made the US the greatest country in the world, and replace it with European style socialism, which would fail.
We are not a "democracy" which is mob rule. We are a republic, a representative republic, which we are in the process of restoring, and we aim to keep it.
You liberals have destroyed the American dream with help from RINOs and your former leader did more to kill the "American Dream" than any other US president in history.
Home ownership has been declining, jobs lost along with the hope of ever finding another one. The numbers receiving government assistance at an all time high and still you want us over run with illegal aliens who only exacerbate the problems.
The education system is a joke and our world standing has suffered as a result. I used to shake my head back when Jay Leno was doing his "Jaywalks" and now Jesse Watters is showing us the level of knowledge endemic in our populace. It is embarrassing. Most people don't know Jack Schitt beyond their own little social network world, and they could care less.
As to your last point about the most successful Americans, take a look at Discoverthenetworks.org. You will see where the real money used for subversive purposes comes from.
You can't put a shine on the turd of liberalism. So don't bother trying to get away with it here.

Reply
Apr 1, 2017 11:37:13   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
I.R. Wayright wrote:
"That is the mission of the liberals today. We are pro democracy, pro capitalism, anti racism and for the protection of the American dream of working people to own a home, educate their children and have enough for a comfortable retirement. If the billionaires have their way, there would be no real democracy, just a government that protects the billionaires and their power! America is for every citizen, not just the Kochs and Trumps of the world!"

That is enough horseshit to fertilize a good sized garden.
Liberals mission is to destroy capitalism, which made the US the greatest country in the world, and replace it with European style socialism, which would fail.
We are not a "democracy" which is mob rule. We are a republic, a representative republic, which we are in the process of restoring, and we aim to keep it.
You liberals have destroyed the American dream with help from RINOs and your former leader did more to kill the "American Dream" than any other US president in history.
Home ownership has been declining, jobs lost along with the hope of ever finding another one. The numbers receiving government assistance at an all time high and still you want us over run with illegal aliens who only exacerbate the problems.
The education system is a joke and our world standing has suffered as a result. I used to shake my head back when Jay Leno was doing his "Jaywalks" and now Jesse Watters is showing us the level of knowledge endemic in our populace. It is embarrassing. Most people don't know Jack Schitt beyond their own little social network world, and they could care less.
As to your last point about the most successful Americans, take a look at Discoverthenetworks.org. You will see where the real money used for subversive purposes comes from.
You can't put a shine on the turd of liberalism. So don't bother trying to get away with it here.
"That is the mission of the liberals today. W... (show quote)


Knocked it out of the ball park with bases loaded!

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Apr 1, 2017 11:38:36   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
JFlorio wrote:
You need to brush up on your modern history. The Democratic party definitely is not the working man's party anymore. See Blue states flipping to red. You are the party of illegals, minorities, gays and any other group you can keep as a victim. If you had an ounce of integrity (which you don't) you would admit a centrist like Kennedy (JFK) could never be elected as a Democrat today. As far as the rich BS goes, there are more millionaire Democrats in congress than Republicans. I guess you missed the whole Clinton $250,000 for a speech. No selling of influence there. Have you looked at their Foundation recently? Guess it's a coincidence that it's not receiving half the donations it used to. You are correct. The democratic party is the party of the slave. They, through their policies keep the poor and minorities as slaves to the largess of government. Is it any wonder our students are practically socialist little snowflakes when their educators are disingenuous little lemmings like you?
You need to brush up on your modern history. The D... (show quote)


There ya go!!!! Well said, J..

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Apr 1, 2017 11:41:16   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
padremike wrote:
Knocked it out of the ball park with bases loaded!


And didn't even need to slide in at home plate!!!
Facts are facts and what he said, says it all!!

Reply
Apr 1, 2017 11:50:32   #
JW
 
saltwind 78 wrote:
JW, Thanks for the correction, but you are wrong about the progressives and the communists being the same. They are entirely different. The Progressive movement came about before World War One. It was a movement that was most concerned about the welfare of the urban factory worker. It didn't advocate violent overthrow of capitalist society. Like the liberals of today, it wanted regulation of capitalism. It recognized that the monopolies had so much power that they could buy government officials to protect their interests, just as they do today. Unlike the liberals of today, they had no interest in helping the rural Black Americans. A good example of the old progressives was Woodrow Wilson who was in every way a Southern white supremacist. They also had no interest in helping the rural white people. That grew to be the area that was taken care of by the grange. Unfortunately, the grange deteriorated into a racist, populist organization.
Today's liberal/progressives are very much believers in capitalism. They fully recognize the failure of Marxism. It simply doesn't work and leads to economic collapse and dictatorship. They also know that the unions have been under attack by the capitalist class and no longer has the power to protect the interests of the working stiffs. That is the mission of the liberals today. We are pro democracy, pro capitalism, anti racism and for the protection of the American dream of working people to own a home, educate their children and have enough for a comfortable retirement. If the billionaires have their way, there would be no real democracy, just a government that protects the billionaires and their power! America is for every citizen, not just the Kochs and Trumps of the world!
JW, Thanks for the correction, but you are wrong a... (show quote)


Progressives are always extolling the virtues of a Democratic Republic; every Communist state since Marx calls itself a Democratic Republic. Progressives support wealth redistribution by government direction; Marx's most famous line, 'from according to ability, to according to need'. Progressives support central planning; every Communist on the planet supports central planning (think Obamacare). There are many more parallels and I could detail the political changes that have characterized the Democrat party since 1960 in its evolutionary shift from a Jeffersonian liberal organ to a clearly definable Marxist political force in the USA as the Progressives have gained strength because I was and still am a JFK Democrat which today makes me a Conservative.

Either you honestly don't know the facts and are one of Lenin's useful idiots or you are a subversive Communist apparatchik determined to force America into the Communist sphere.

You've made a lot of "Progress" since the Viet Nam war but Trump is waking the sleeping giant and with diligence and honest love of country, your kind will be consigned to the trash heap of history where you belong.

What utterly amazes me is that you can see your philosophy fail again and again and again, the world over, but it never registers in your brains. You people are denser than uranium and almost as toxic.

Reply
Apr 1, 2017 12:01:43   #
Kazudy
 
Good job Tom. I put that up on my Facebook page. Hope you don't mind.

Reply
Apr 1, 2017 12:16:51   #
Mr Bombastic
 
JW wrote:


What utterly amazes me is that you can see your philosophy fail again and again and again, the world over, but it never registers in your brains. You people are denser than uranium and almost as toxic.


They get it. They really do. They push the 'liberal' agenda because they hate America. At least the ones in charge do. The rest of the rank and file are simply useful idiots.

Reply
Apr 1, 2017 12:18:16   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
tom25411 wrote:
America was founded as a Republic (Hear the National Anthem) Because of the abuses of the "Robber Barons" against the common working man during the industrial revolution the unions or the communist party was born as the Democratic party. There is absolutely no difference between the two. The News media as well as Academia tend to be ultra liberal..... Hmmmm, How many Billions in the Clinton Foundation bank accounts? I guess in Lib speak it does trickle up hill. We should all be thankful we have a man like the Donald running the show now.

And Media; Get off the mans back and join the effort to "Make America Great Again".. And Libs; Yeah it would be nice if every American had a welfare card, but study a little history first. Learn what happened to every society in the last 5,000 years that tried that idea.

Lead, follow or get out of the way. The mans brilliant business mind is what we need at this time in American history.
America was founded as a Republic (Hear the Nation... (show quote)


"Lead, follow or get out of the way. The mans brilliant business mind is what we need at this time in American history."
We pulled the Clinton nail out of America's coffin.
The PTB thought it was in the Hag; but it wasn't.
https://youtu.be/aVlHZh5dvbA

Reply
Apr 1, 2017 12:26:29   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
JW wrote:
Progressives are always extolling the virtues of a Democratic Republic; every Communist state since Marx calls itself a Democratic Republic. Progressives support wealth redistribution by government direction; Marx's most famous line, 'from according to ability, to according to need'. Progressives support central planning; every Communist on the planet supports central planning (think Obamacare). There are many more parallels and I could detail the political changes that have characterized the Democrat party since 1960 in its evolutionary shift from a Jeffersonian liberal organ to a clearly definable Marxist political force in the USA as the Progressives have gained strength because I was and still am a JFK Democrat which today makes me a Conservative.

Either you honestly don't know the facts and are one of Lenin's useful idiots or you are a subversive Communist apparatchik determined to force America into the Communist sphere.

You've made a lot of "Progress" since the Viet Nam war but Trump is waking the sleeping giant and with diligence and honest love of country, your kind will be consigned to the trash heap of history where you belong.

What utterly amazes me is that you can see your philosophy fail again and again and again, the world over, but it never registers in your brains. You people are denser than uranium and almost as toxic.
Progressives are always extolling the virtues of a... (show quote)


You're absolutely correct. Their philosophy fails every time because it's flawed, it's wrong, it never works. They never examine why.

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