Coming problems
Feb 12, 2017 15:57:19 #
It has bothered me that while trump and his chumps have the media and lawmakers attention focused on a travel ban, the fossil fuel people are pushing the trump plan to reinstate the extraction industries. In a week or so, we can expect to see the gutting of the EPA and nearly everything related to the environment and public lands.
Part of the stock market surge was a reflection of expected focus on oil and coal by the trump administration. This was a trump campaign promise and is ongoing at this moment..
But the clean coal time was ended in 1991 by non other then the coal industry. By a single vote, they were allowed to pursue short term profits from low sulfur coal and not invest in the long range hope of clean coal.
So now, is trump going to bail them out, have the taxpayers pay for the development of clean coal??
It seems that is precisely what the expect.. While wall street has shown some second thought on this subject, the industry is still counting on it..
Will trump deliver?? It may be that it is so late it will not matter, the die is cast for renewable energy..
https://thinkprogress.org/coal-wont-rebound-whatever-president-trump-does-energy-experts-say-e30a78745b77#.p2hci5f9z
Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) has a message for the new president: You are not going to bring coal back.
Donald Trump won the presidency with claims that he is a brilliant businessman who will create jobs. He railed against a political “war on coal” supposedly waged by President Obama, one Trump claimed was “killing American jobs.” On his first day in office, Trump deleted all the climate change references on the White House website, replacing it with an “energy plan” that asserts he is “committed to… reviving America’s coal industry.”
In a new analysis, leading independent energy experts at BNEF dismantle these claims. “Whatever President Trump may say, U.S. coal’s main problem has been cheap natural gas and renewable power, not a politically driven ‘war on coal,’” explain BNEF chair Michael Liebreich and chief editor Angus McCrone. Therefore “it will continue being pushed out of the generating mix.”
They note global electricity demand has grown much less than expected (thanks in part to energy efficiency). This 2016 Energy Information Administration (EIA) chart shows the trend here:
U.S. power generation since 2006, showing decline of coal (light blue) as both natural gas (yellow) and new renewables (brown) rose, while nuclear (green) and hydro (dark blue) remain flat. Via EIA.
In a world of flat demand, the electricity market is a ruthless game of musical chairs — where the slowest and most unwieldy power sources keep losing their seat.
Coal power is just too costly and inflexible, explains BNEF: “Super-low-cost renewable power — what we are now calling ‘base-cost renewables’ — is going to force a revolution in the way power grids are designed, and the way they are regulated.”
When you add the revolution in cheap fracked gas — which Trump has pledged to double down on — it’s no surprise the country shut down over 40 gigawatts of coal-fired power stations since 2000. “These will not reopen whatever anything President Trump does,” explains BNEF, “nor do we see much appetite among investors for ploughing money into U.S. coal extraction — stranded asset risk will trump rhetoric.”
Indeed, coal’s woes are not merely being driven by a collapse in the economic case here. It’s also being driven by a collapse in the export market, as countries from Europe to Asia also move away from coal because of its economic and human cost. Coal pollution is killing people and destroying the climate.
BNEF lists what’s going on:
In the U.K., coal-firing shrunk to a minuscule 3.6 percent of total electricity production in the third quarter of 2016
Other European countries are finally — and belatedly — turning their attention to forcing the early retirement of coal plants.
China has just announced the suspension of plans for 100 new coal plants, including ones whose construction has already begun
India’s Electricity Central Electricity Authority has said that after the current crop of coal-fired power stations under construction are completed, the country will need no new ones until 2027.
“Peak coal is coming sooner than expected,” Goldman Sachs told clients in a September research note. BNEF agrees.
So Trump won’t be bringing back the domestic coal industry. And even if he could, he can’t bring back the jobs because it’s the coal industry itself that wiped out most of those jobs through productivity gains from “strip mines and machinery,” as Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman explained in 2014.
Source: Paul Krugman
The fact is clean energy jobs are the only major new source of sustainable high-wage employment in the coming decades. Tragically, Trump’s misguided policies — his war on clean energy — mean the U.S. may not benefit from this exploding $50-trillion industry.
Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) has a message for the new president: You are not going to bring coal back.
Donald Trump won the presidency with claims that he is a brilliant businessman who will create jobs. He railed against a political “war on coal” supposedly waged by President Obama, one Trump claimed was “killing American jobs.” On his first day in office, Trump deleted all the climate change references on the White House website, replacing it with an “energy plan” that asserts he is “committed to… reviving America’s coal industry.”
In a new analysis, leading independent energy experts at BNEF dismantle these claims. “Whatever President Trump may say, U.S. coal’s main problem has been cheap natural gas and renewable power, not a politically driven ‘war on coal,’” explain BNEF chair Michael Liebreich and chief editor Angus McCrone. Therefore “it will continue being pushed out of the generating mix.”
They note global electricity demand has grown much less than expected (thanks in part to energy efficiency). This 2016 Energy Information Administration (EIA) chart shows the trend here:
U.S. power generation since 2006, showing decline of coal (light blue) as both natural gas (yellow) and new renewables (brown) rose, while nuclear (green) and hydro (dark blue) remain flat. Via EIA.
In a world of flat demand, the electricity market is a ruthless game of musical chairs — where the slowest and most unwieldy power sources keep losing their seat.
Coal power is just too costly and inflexible, explains BNEF: “Super-low-cost renewable power — what we are now calling ‘base-cost renewables’ — is going to force a revolution in the way power grids are designed, and the way they are regulated.”
When you add the revolution in cheap fracked gas — which Trump has pledged to double down on — it’s no surprise the country shut down over 40 gigawatts of coal-fired power stations since 2000. “These will not reopen whatever anything President Trump does,” explains BNEF, “nor do we see much appetite among investors for ploughing money into U.S. coal extraction — stranded asset risk will trump rhetoric.”
Indeed, coal’s woes are not merely being driven by a collapse in the economic case here. It’s also being driven by a collapse in the export market, as countries from Europe to Asia also move away from coal because of its economic and human cost. Coal pollution is killing people and destroying the climate.
BNEF lists what’s going on:
In the U.K., coal-firing shrunk to a minuscule 3.6 percent of total electricity production in the third quarter of 2016
Other European countries are finally — and belatedly — turning their attention to forcing the early retirement of coal plants.
China has just announced the suspension of plans for 100 new coal plants, including ones whose construction has already begun
India’s Electricity Central Electricity Authority has said that after the current crop of coal-fired power stations under construction are completed, the country will need no new ones until 2027.
“Peak coal is coming sooner than expected,” Goldman Sachs told clients in a September research note. BNEF agrees.
So Trump won’t be bringing back the domestic coal industry. And even if he could, he can’t bring back the jobs because it’s the coal industry itself that wiped out most of those jobs through productivity gains from “strip mines and machinery,” as Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman explained in 2014.
Source: Paul Krugman
The fact is clean energy jobs are the only major new source of sustainable high-wage employment in the coming decades. Tragically, Trump’s misguided policies — his war on clean energy — mean the U.S. may not benefit from this exploding $50-trillion industry.
Part of the stock market surge was a reflection of expected focus on oil and coal by the trump administration. This was a trump campaign promise and is ongoing at this moment..
But the clean coal time was ended in 1991 by non other then the coal industry. By a single vote, they were allowed to pursue short term profits from low sulfur coal and not invest in the long range hope of clean coal.
So now, is trump going to bail them out, have the taxpayers pay for the development of clean coal??
It seems that is precisely what the expect.. While wall street has shown some second thought on this subject, the industry is still counting on it..
Will trump deliver?? It may be that it is so late it will not matter, the die is cast for renewable energy..
https://thinkprogress.org/coal-wont-rebound-whatever-president-trump-does-energy-experts-say-e30a78745b77#.p2hci5f9z
Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) has a message for the new president: You are not going to bring coal back.
Donald Trump won the presidency with claims that he is a brilliant businessman who will create jobs. He railed against a political “war on coal” supposedly waged by President Obama, one Trump claimed was “killing American jobs.” On his first day in office, Trump deleted all the climate change references on the White House website, replacing it with an “energy plan” that asserts he is “committed to… reviving America’s coal industry.”
In a new analysis, leading independent energy experts at BNEF dismantle these claims. “Whatever President Trump may say, U.S. coal’s main problem has been cheap natural gas and renewable power, not a politically driven ‘war on coal,’” explain BNEF chair Michael Liebreich and chief editor Angus McCrone. Therefore “it will continue being pushed out of the generating mix.”
They note global electricity demand has grown much less than expected (thanks in part to energy efficiency). This 2016 Energy Information Administration (EIA) chart shows the trend here:
U.S. power generation since 2006, showing decline of coal (light blue) as both natural gas (yellow) and new renewables (brown) rose, while nuclear (green) and hydro (dark blue) remain flat. Via EIA.
In a world of flat demand, the electricity market is a ruthless game of musical chairs — where the slowest and most unwieldy power sources keep losing their seat.
Coal power is just too costly and inflexible, explains BNEF: “Super-low-cost renewable power — what we are now calling ‘base-cost renewables’ — is going to force a revolution in the way power grids are designed, and the way they are regulated.”
When you add the revolution in cheap fracked gas — which Trump has pledged to double down on — it’s no surprise the country shut down over 40 gigawatts of coal-fired power stations since 2000. “These will not reopen whatever anything President Trump does,” explains BNEF, “nor do we see much appetite among investors for ploughing money into U.S. coal extraction — stranded asset risk will trump rhetoric.”
Indeed, coal’s woes are not merely being driven by a collapse in the economic case here. It’s also being driven by a collapse in the export market, as countries from Europe to Asia also move away from coal because of its economic and human cost. Coal pollution is killing people and destroying the climate.
BNEF lists what’s going on:
In the U.K., coal-firing shrunk to a minuscule 3.6 percent of total electricity production in the third quarter of 2016
Other European countries are finally — and belatedly — turning their attention to forcing the early retirement of coal plants.
China has just announced the suspension of plans for 100 new coal plants, including ones whose construction has already begun
India’s Electricity Central Electricity Authority has said that after the current crop of coal-fired power stations under construction are completed, the country will need no new ones until 2027.
“Peak coal is coming sooner than expected,” Goldman Sachs told clients in a September research note. BNEF agrees.
So Trump won’t be bringing back the domestic coal industry. And even if he could, he can’t bring back the jobs because it’s the coal industry itself that wiped out most of those jobs through productivity gains from “strip mines and machinery,” as Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman explained in 2014.
Source: Paul Krugman
The fact is clean energy jobs are the only major new source of sustainable high-wage employment in the coming decades. Tragically, Trump’s misguided policies — his war on clean energy — mean the U.S. may not benefit from this exploding $50-trillion industry.
Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) has a message for the new president: You are not going to bring coal back.
Donald Trump won the presidency with claims that he is a brilliant businessman who will create jobs. He railed against a political “war on coal” supposedly waged by President Obama, one Trump claimed was “killing American jobs.” On his first day in office, Trump deleted all the climate change references on the White House website, replacing it with an “energy plan” that asserts he is “committed to… reviving America’s coal industry.”
In a new analysis, leading independent energy experts at BNEF dismantle these claims. “Whatever President Trump may say, U.S. coal’s main problem has been cheap natural gas and renewable power, not a politically driven ‘war on coal,’” explain BNEF chair Michael Liebreich and chief editor Angus McCrone. Therefore “it will continue being pushed out of the generating mix.”
They note global electricity demand has grown much less than expected (thanks in part to energy efficiency). This 2016 Energy Information Administration (EIA) chart shows the trend here:
U.S. power generation since 2006, showing decline of coal (light blue) as both natural gas (yellow) and new renewables (brown) rose, while nuclear (green) and hydro (dark blue) remain flat. Via EIA.
In a world of flat demand, the electricity market is a ruthless game of musical chairs — where the slowest and most unwieldy power sources keep losing their seat.
Coal power is just too costly and inflexible, explains BNEF: “Super-low-cost renewable power — what we are now calling ‘base-cost renewables’ — is going to force a revolution in the way power grids are designed, and the way they are regulated.”
When you add the revolution in cheap fracked gas — which Trump has pledged to double down on — it’s no surprise the country shut down over 40 gigawatts of coal-fired power stations since 2000. “These will not reopen whatever anything President Trump does,” explains BNEF, “nor do we see much appetite among investors for ploughing money into U.S. coal extraction — stranded asset risk will trump rhetoric.”
Indeed, coal’s woes are not merely being driven by a collapse in the economic case here. It’s also being driven by a collapse in the export market, as countries from Europe to Asia also move away from coal because of its economic and human cost. Coal pollution is killing people and destroying the climate.
BNEF lists what’s going on:
In the U.K., coal-firing shrunk to a minuscule 3.6 percent of total electricity production in the third quarter of 2016
Other European countries are finally — and belatedly — turning their attention to forcing the early retirement of coal plants.
China has just announced the suspension of plans for 100 new coal plants, including ones whose construction has already begun
India’s Electricity Central Electricity Authority has said that after the current crop of coal-fired power stations under construction are completed, the country will need no new ones until 2027.
“Peak coal is coming sooner than expected,” Goldman Sachs told clients in a September research note. BNEF agrees.
So Trump won’t be bringing back the domestic coal industry. And even if he could, he can’t bring back the jobs because it’s the coal industry itself that wiped out most of those jobs through productivity gains from “strip mines and machinery,” as Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman explained in 2014.
Source: Paul Krugman
The fact is clean energy jobs are the only major new source of sustainable high-wage employment in the coming decades. Tragically, Trump’s misguided policies — his war on clean energy — mean the U.S. may not benefit from this exploding $50-trillion industry.
Feb 12, 2017 16:04:07 #
YEAH,We can have Donald give a company like SOLYNDRA,millions of our money,to make solar opanels,That should do the trick
Feb 12, 2017 17:06:18 #
permafrost wrote:
It has bothered me that while trump and his chumps... (show quote)
The EPA has evolved into something liken to the Nazi SS. Trump has made it clear he has every intention of retaining environmental protections, however the list of politically motivated over reach includes thousands of needless regulations.
You have to love the TV commercials from leftist activist showing Alaska, the beautiful waterfalls, lush flowers and vegatation, birds, deer, elk, and bears, a paradise.
When the truth of the drilling location is a tundra that is baron, near zero plant life, no birds, bears, deer, or elk. Nothing lives their.
In California hundreds of thousands of farming acres either dried up or left to turn to dust by farmers because of water shortage.
Yet there us a stream that can feed all of the acreage and much more draining into to sea because environmentalists, the EPA says it would threaten a specific small fish.
Thousands of over reaching EPA regulations need to be destroyed, while thousands more retained. This has the potential to stimulate millions of jobs.
Yet you guys (leftist ) spin the truth, making it sound like Trump wants to ship in Fukushima nuke water, pour pesticides into our drinking water, and make the rich, richer.
Feb 12, 2017 17:27:10 #
permafrost wrote:
In a week or so, we can expect to see the gutting of the EPA ......
Damn, that's good news, permafrost. Getting rid of the EPA is more than four decades overdue!
Feb 12, 2017 18:00:48 #
permafrost wrote:
It has bothered me that while trump and his chumps... (show quote)
Coal isn't going to go anywhere in this country--natural gas is simply too cheap and with the increased production under Trump that means it will only get cheaper. As for the gutting of the EPA it's simply to satisfy they haters on the right who miss the good ole days of dirty air and dirty water. The only question is once they get it well see if they still fell the same way...
Feb 12, 2017 18:09:27 #
permafrost wrote:
It has bothered me that while trump and his chumps... (show quote)
Both industries can be expanded simultaneously.
Not everything is black and white.
Coal is still the cheapest BTU for the buck, and many people are scraping bye to afford they're new "Affordable" healthcare that are leaving many in the cold.
There is room for both.
As far as the EPA....They had they're chance to make a difference, but chose to abuse they're power instead.
Feb 12, 2017 18:28:08 #
PeterS wrote:
Coal isn't going to go anywhere in this country--natural gas is simply too cheap and with the increased production under Trump that means it will only get cheaper. As for the gutting of the EPA it's simply to satisfy they haters on the right who miss the good ole days of dirty air and dirty water. The only question is once they get it well see if they still fell the same way...
Yes Pete ,, we yearn for filthy rivers and streams , clear cutting forest to the nub , living in squalor and raising lead eating children ,, damn dude you got us ,, how can we go on ?
Feb 12, 2017 19:12:41 #
rehabscott
Loc: San Angelo, TX
God has created a world for us that is full of wonders and seemingly infinite resources. It's up to us to use those resources in the most beneficial way possible for all of humanity.
Never have been a proponent of coal - it kills the people mining it and it kills the people using it. That being said, I'm also not a big proponent of oil and gas. In the areas of the country where we are drilling, there has been a tremendous increase in seizmic activity. The more we take out of the ground, the more the earth's crust is shifting. Only time will tell. But, given the alternative, I'd rather be paying for and refining our own oil and natural gas than someone elses.
I do lean more toward solar and wind but the technologies are not quite there yet. Storage of electricity generated by solar and wind is still in it's early development stages - at least when we talk about mass storage for distribution.
Does anyone have more up-to-date info to either support or contradict my personal observations.
The reason I am asking is because I am working on a private sector project do develop affordable housing for the homeless. Integrating solar and wind technologies will not enable us to eliminate dependence on the fuel sources that produce the electricity we use, but it should reduce our costs by 40% or more as we feed the electricity we generate back into the grid.
Never have been a proponent of coal - it kills the people mining it and it kills the people using it. That being said, I'm also not a big proponent of oil and gas. In the areas of the country where we are drilling, there has been a tremendous increase in seizmic activity. The more we take out of the ground, the more the earth's crust is shifting. Only time will tell. But, given the alternative, I'd rather be paying for and refining our own oil and natural gas than someone elses.
I do lean more toward solar and wind but the technologies are not quite there yet. Storage of electricity generated by solar and wind is still in it's early development stages - at least when we talk about mass storage for distribution.
Does anyone have more up-to-date info to either support or contradict my personal observations.
The reason I am asking is because I am working on a private sector project do develop affordable housing for the homeless. Integrating solar and wind technologies will not enable us to eliminate dependence on the fuel sources that produce the electricity we use, but it should reduce our costs by 40% or more as we feed the electricity we generate back into the grid.
Feb 12, 2017 19:40:46 #
rehabscott wrote:
God has created a world for us that is full of won... (show quote)
I agree with your views. I have solar on my RV . It's great having the AC fan, Tv, coffee pot and no gas guzzling generator or stacks of gas cans. In many parks after 10:00 pm no generators.
The down side is the high cost of deep cycle batteries and their short life span. Ad you mentioned, the technology for storage of energy that is cost effective is lacking. I have learned that majority of passive activist arguing for solar and damn be gas and oil, have zero concept what or how solar works, and the reasons we need to be energy dependence.
I would like to see an energy R&D tax placed on big oil, getting their skin in the game.
Feb 12, 2017 19:44:55 #
Feb 13, 2017 07:49:37 #
rehabscott wrote:
God has created a world for us that is full of won... (show quote)
I tend to agree , we will eventually get to clean fuel , however I like things simple so I've a few points you may ponder .. Oil , coal and N. gas is found where ? In mother earth , and it is found everywhere on earth to different degrees , it bubbles from the ground in places and in others is deep in the earth .. If it is so toxic why are we not already dead ?? got any clue ???
Feb 13, 2017 09:22:04 #
reconreb wrote:
I tend to agree , we will eventually get to clean fuel , however I like things simple so I've a few points you may ponder .. Oil , coal and N. gas is found where ? In mother earth , and it is found everywhere on earth to different degrees , it bubbles from the ground in places and in others is deep in the earth .. If it is so toxic why are we not already dead ?? got any clue ???
recon,
jGo try to grow a tree or a garden in one of those places where the oil oozes up from the ground... nothing will grow... It is toxic even in the natural form..
And you wish to inhale it?? Don`t do that.. You need to live a long and vigorous life.. Pollution will kill you as it does the canary in a coal mine...
Feb 13, 2017 09:52:17 #
robmull
Loc: florida
PeterS wrote:
Coal isn't going to go anywhere in this country--natural gas is simply too cheap and with the increased production under Trump that means it will only get cheaper. As for the gutting of the EPA it's simply to satisfy they haters on the right who miss the good ole days of dirty air and dirty water. The only question is once they get it well see if they still fell the same way...
"Dirty air and dirty water," pecker? How novel. How clever. I've never heard THAT before. Hummmmmmmmmm. (D)id you make it up yourself??? GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PRESIDENT "45" DONALD J. TRUMP (R)!!!
Feb 13, 2017 10:05:12 #
robmull wrote:
"Dirty air and dirty water," pecker? How novel. How clever. I've never heard THAT before. Hummmmmmmmmm. (D)id you make it up yourself??? GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PRESIDENT "45" DONALD J. TRUMP (R)!!!
And you are so stupid you fail to consider it.. What an ass...
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.