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Oct 20, 2016 12:28:17   #
Tom Brooks
 
In other words, he has no source.
The imported oil stat is 100% BS and this yoyo knows it.
Obama has done everything he could to shut down energy
production in the U.S. That includes Oil, Coal and Nuke.

And that is just one of his lies.

Reply
Oct 20, 2016 13:09:17   #
Tom Brooks
 
I could not help but notice that Richard94611 conveniently left out that under Obama our national debt is now nearing twenty trillion dollars (that is 20 trillion as in $20,000,000,000,000) and our children, grand children, great grand children may never pay off.

Also, left out is that the number of manufacturing jobs continues to decline due to the unreasonable tax structure. Democraps insist that corporations producing goods in our country pay billions of dollars in taxes, when the truth is, corporations pay no taxes at all. The taxes that corporations send to the crooked IRS are expenses just any expense of doing business from buying raw materials to paying employee wages, and every other expense. The consumer ultimately pays the taxes. But only on American made products. Other countries don't cripple their producers with exorbitant taxes so they can produce goods and ship them half way around the world and sell them here cheaper than they can be produced and marketed here. And democraps are to damn dense to understand that very basic and simple reality.

He also left out that Obummer care is rapidly destroying the health industry. I can personal attest to the some of the crap going on with insurers. Obummercare requires every insurer to accept new enrollees but does not require them to keep anyone enrolled. I signed up with Humana and as long as I had no need, Humana kept taking my money. Then the first time I had to go to the hospital to save my legs from being amputated, Humana craped on the hospital bill and canceled me. Fortunately, my doctor was aware of the Humana scam and threatened to sue Humana if they did not pay up. He finally was able to collect the 20% that Medicare didn't cover for himself and the hospital. But, insurance was still canceled. Now I have figured out that it is cheaper for me to pay the 20% out of pocket instead of buying overpriced insurance according to Obummercare mandates.

Richard94611 wrote:
Many of the people who post in this forum seem to believe that W. Bush was a wonderful president and that Obama has not been acceptable. Here are some comparative statistics. Remember that you Republicans vowed not to accept any of Obama's legislation, and worked very hard to make his presidency a failure. Remember that you Republicans worked very hard to prevent this kind of progress, something really akin to treason when you consider the effect on the well-being of Americans.

UNDER W. BUSH Unemployment UNDER OBAMA NOW
7.2%. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.1%

Cost of gas/gallon
$3.24. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $2.31

Uninsured rate
15%. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9.2%

Barrels of Oil Imported
11 M. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.5 M

Number of Iran Centrifuges
19,000. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6,000

GDP Growth
-0.3%. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.7%

Dow Jones
10,355. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18,150
Many of the people who post in this forum seem to ... (show quote)

Reply
Oct 20, 2016 13:29:00   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
Tom Brooks wrote:
I could not help but notice that Richard94611 conveniently left out that under Obama our national debt is now nearing twenty trillion dollars (that is 20 trillion as in $20,000,000,000,000) and our children, grand children, great grand children may never pay off.

Also, left out is that the number of manufacturing jobs continues to decline due to the unreasonable tax structure. Democraps insist that corporations producing goods in our country pay billions of dollars in taxes, when the truth is, corporations pay no taxes at all. The taxes that corporations send to the crooked IRS are expenses just any expense of doing business from buying raw materials to paying employee wages, and every other expense. The consumer ultimately pays the taxes. But only on American made products. Other countries don't cripple their producers with exorbitant taxes so they can produce goods and ship them half way around the world and sell them here cheaper than they can be produced and marketed here. And democraps are to damn dense to understand that very basic and simple reality.

He also left out that Obummer care is rapidly destroying the health industry. I can personal attest to the some of the crap going on with insurers. Obummercare requires every insurer to accept new enrollees but does not require them to keep anyone enrolled. I signed up with Humana and as long as I had no need, Humana kept taking my money. Then the first time I had to go to the hospital to save my legs from being amputated, Humana craped on the hospital bill and canceled me. Fortunately, my doctor was aware of the Humana scam and threatened to sue Humana if they did not pay up. He finally was able to collect the 20% that Medicare didn't cover for himself and the hospital. But, insurance was still canceled. Now I have figured out that it is cheaper for me to pay the 20% out of pocket instead of buying overpriced insurance according to Obummercare mandates.
I could not help but notice that Richard94611 conv... (show quote)

You're right on all counts as near as I can tell. And, yes, our grandchildren, great grandchildren will probably never prosper, thanks to OUR GOVERNMENT. In MY view, those kids, nor WE, owe those trillions of dollars. The people who SHOULD be charged with the wasteful irresponsible spending are our elected officials and THEIR appointed employees who don't think twice about wasting millions of dollars. We are being "led" by a bunch of irresponsible, incompetent thieves WE did put into office, but I maintain that ignorant voters elected most of those politicians who are the most corrupt in the bunch, and it makes me darned mad that idiots can cause all the rest of us such pain and discomfort while THEY never give a thought to what they are doing that is destructive to our nation. I realize we have a government that is of the people, by the people, for the people......but it is a craven LIE. It is no such thing. What we have is an oligarchy that is not about to give up its power just to please voters whom they see as nothing more than tools and somebody to blame for their mistakes and crimes.

The political left is as craven as their politicians and the entire crowd is a bunch of sociopaths who SHOULD be seeing psychiatrists and watched after as they have a complete inability to think, to utilize logic, to reason and think things out. They have been totally brainwashed by their "leaders" and teachers throughout the decades.

BTW, be careful about having no medical coverage unless you are quite well off financially. I was ordered a med this week that for a month's supply was over $1000.00......I told the pharmacist to FORGET IT.....it was not a necessity for me. To make matters worse, some medications cost more than that, some VERY MUCH MORE THAN THAT. It is obscene and grotesque what our once fine medical situation has become under Obama. I can hardly wait until he exits the scene......if he ever DOES.

Reply
Oct 20, 2016 14:49:53   #
Hemiman Loc: Communist California
 
Tasine wrote:
You're right on all counts as near as I can tell. And, yes, our grandchildren, great grandchildren will probably never prosper, thanks to OUR GOVERNMENT. In MY view, those kids, nor WE, owe those trillions of dollars. The people who SHOULD be charged with the wasteful irresponsible spending are our elected officials and THEIR appointed employees who don't think twice about wasting millions of dollars. We are being "led" by a bunch of irresponsible, incompetent thieves WE did put into office, but I maintain that ignorant voters elected most of those politicians who are the most corrupt in the bunch, and it makes me darned mad that idiots can cause all the rest of us such pain and discomfort while THEY never give a thought to what they are doing that is destructive to our nation. I realize we have a government that is of the people, by the people, for the people......but it is a craven LIE. It is no such thing. What we have is an oligarchy that is not about to give up its power just to please voters whom they see as nothing more than tools and somebody to blame for their mistakes and crimes.

The political left is as craven as their politicians and the entire crowd is a bunch of sociopaths who SHOULD be seeing psychiatrists and watched after as they have a complete inability to think, to utilize logic, to reason and think things out. They have been totally brainwashed by their "leaders" and teachers throughout the decades.

BTW, be careful about having no medical coverage unless you are quite well off financially. I was ordered a med this week that for a month's supply was over $1000.00......I told the pharmacist to FORGET IT.....it was not a necessity for me. To make matters worse, some medications cost more than that, some VERY MUCH MORE THAN THAT. It is obscene and grotesque what our once fine medical situation has become under Obama. I can hardly wait until he exits the scene......if he ever DOES.
You're right on all counts as near as I can tell. ... (show quote)



Reply
Oct 20, 2016 16:42:15   #
peter11937 Loc: NYS
 
Morgan wrote:
We are now working with what has become a two party system, that is the almost the worst thing that can happen to us for this exact reason of this bipolar tug of war. It doesn't work for that exact reason. But what we now have is a party that behaves as if it's going through a divorce, where no matter what the other side offers they will not agree to it.

Insurance prices go up all the time, whether ACA is there or not. I can attest to that. When you're a small private business owner, paying for your own insurance...well it went up all the time, and god forbid you should make a claim, than it really goes up.

Everyone has to have car insurance in order to drive, how did they get that past? We should all have health insurance, Obama care is there to create a market place. Now hold on...I realize this hasn't happen as how it was exactly intended, and honestly I'm not sure if it's been sabotaged so it will fail or what, the waters are muddied.

This really shouldn't be that difficult, why don't we treat health insurance the same as car insurance, where we can research who would carry the best policy for us from all over the country and there is a standard they would have to abide by with preconditions and no caps. It would also help a great deal getting the pharmaceuticals under control from price gouging to and in the US.
We are now working with what has become a two part... (show quote)


Private insurance is based on actuarial rates. Or was, now they factor in imaginary future losses based on climate change, never mind that climate change takes at least 600 years to show a trend . You do not have to carry auto insurance even in places where it is supposed mandatory. Just post a bond in the amount specified by the State... bingo, no ins required. Except where YOUR contractual responsibility assumed voluntarily, such as getting a loan to buy a new car has mandatory insurance required..

Health insurance such as it was , was developed by private insurers over a century ago. About 30 years ago the fact that many policies were not capable of being transferred state to state, due to differing state laws, differing policy forms, ins. cos licensed in one state, or one region, few nationwide. The solution was to get a standardized national minimum coverage form with provisions for use nation wide. This requires a conformity of all State and territory forms. Not an easy task, but possible to do. NYS had enabled this within the State long ago for transfers intrastate. The interstate version is what the Feds. should have passed legislation that enables the private insurers to do this. Then backed it up by providing for a small fee, a reinsurance facility for the catastrophic loss potential. Private insurers means competition and efficiency which makes for lower costs. The government only option ALWAYS produces the opposite effect.

Reply
Oct 20, 2016 17:46:47   #
Docadhoc Loc: Elsewhere
 
Morgan wrote:
Treasonous behavior is very serious but only illegal when it is pursued to be proven so; No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
therefore many times the crime goes unpunished. Not appointing the supreme court judge would not fall into that seriousness of a category, but for Mitch McConnell Stand up to say their endeavor would be to make the President a lame duck was treasonous in my opinion, at a time when it was crucial for congress to work together, you will never change my mind on that. When you have someone/people undermining your efforts in order to have you fail, that is clearly sabotage, that is eroding the base in an effort to collapse it, it is subversive, no doubt.

When you have representatives sign a coalition to a lobbyist against an action to raise taxes, that is again sabotage and subversive... hence treasonous. What I really can't believe is that it was allowed to happen.

Than they stand there and balk how he has been an ineffective president is also outrageous, when they are the very ones who did create the condition.

These are the important issues, not how the wealthy use tax loopholes.

But here is the thing,when our country was in such distress instead of some of the 1 and 2 percenters stepping up, and give into the pot, they went and collected unprecedented profits. How patriotic and ethical are they, they have no conscience, no loyalty except to themselves.

Hillary has served this country for over a quarter of a century, and was never discredited until it was known she was going to run for the presidency....rather transparent don't you think.

This man Trump is exactly a self server, period. Ambitious for power to feed that enormous ego, which is very dangerous.
Treasonous behavior is very serious but only illeg... (show quote)


Word games. You said "Treasonous". That is a crime punishable by death. Don't tell me treason isn't illegal. How inane.

As with your hillary, if there is no conviction it doesn't exist. If.you are going to play this game with Trump in your sights, then Hillary is looking at centuries of punishment. What works for one works for the other.

Don't make wild comments if you don't mean them.

Reply
Oct 20, 2016 18:45:34   #
Docadhoc Loc: Elsewhere
 
Morgan wrote:
I'm sorry Doc that just doesn't add up for me, why would the insurance company do something self destructive, to set itself up to fail?

All I know is why can other countries get this done and we cannot? We should not be paying more for prescription drugs than any other country, that is a bias set against us to take advantage of us that has to stop. Ironically the company's are right here promoted by CEO's to price gouge when it is high in demand and vital. This is what happens in a for profit health care system.

Why do we not treat to cure, we treat to prolong.
I'm sorry Doc that just doesn't add up for me, why... (show quote)



To begin with I suggest you do a thorough look in depth at the quality of care, length of waiting times for specific services and types of care, list of priorities of specific types of care, and outcomes of that related care in those countries with nationalized health care.

Then ask yourself, why do those who have the money come from those countries and travel here for care?

If you look deeply enough you will see the flaws. They are not good. Our system has been far the best in the world for a long time.

Ask yourself why the ACA all but eliminates interstate insurance competition? The competition for your dollar is what kept costs down. Not near far enough, but it was the best check available other than containment by law.
.
So why isn't any insurance company allowed to sell their coverage anywhere under the ACA? Competition only leads to lower prices, not higher.

As to your question regarding Rx prices, think "big pharma", then "lobby". Then think "design".

Reply
Check out topic: Pretending It All Works
Oct 20, 2016 18:58:53   #
Richard94611
 
In terms of actual medical care, our system is almost certainly the best in the world. In terms of costs, our system is one of the worst. One thing we are very fortunate to have is a set of laws that require hospitals to treat people for emergencies when they go to a hospital, whether or not they can pay for the treatment. And, at least in California, we have a system of county hospitals that people without money usually go to for treatment. They receive a bill, but many people simply cannot and do not pay. Maybe it gets on their credit report, but so what ? At least their lives are saved. In countries such as Ghana or Jamaica, and many, many others, you can have a life-threatening illness such as appendicitis, and if you cannot pay up front for the emergency treatment or if you do not have medical insurance, they will let you die on the steps of the hospital. In Jamaica, if you meet a kind-hearted physician, maybe he will treat you right away and save your life, but he will then charge for his services and within a year or two if you do not pay you will probably go to prison. We are very fortunate to live in the United States.


Docadhoc wrote:
To begin with I suggest you do a thorough look in depth at the quality of care, length of waiting times for specific services and types of care, list of priorities of specific types of care, and outcomes of that related care in those countries with nationalized health care.

Then ask yourself, why do those who have the money come from those countries and travel here for care?

If you look deeply enough you will see the flaws. They are not good. Our system has been far the best in the world for a long time.

Ask yourself why the ACA all but eliminates interstate insurance competition? The competition for your dollar is what kept costs down. Not near far enough, but it was the best check available other than containment by law.
.
So why isn't any insurance company allowed to sell their coverage anywhere under the ACA? Competition only leads to lower prices, not higher.

As to your question regarding Rx prices, think "big pharma", then "lobby". Then think "design".
To begin with I suggest you do a thorough look in ... (show quote)

Reply
Oct 20, 2016 19:00:38   #
Hemiman Loc: Communist California
 
Richard94611 wrote:
In terms of actual medical care, our system is almost certainly the best in the world. In terms of costs, our system is one of the worst. One thing we are very fortunate to have is a set of laws that require hospitals to treat people for emergencies when they go to a hospital, whether or not they can pay for the treatment. And, at least in California, we have a system of county hospitals that people without money usually go to for treatment. They receive a bill, but many people simply cannot and do not pay. Maybe it gets on their credit report, but so what ? At least their lives are saved. In countries such as Ghana or Jamaica, and many, many others, you can have a life-threatening illness such as appendicitis, and if you cannot pay up front for the emergency treatment or if you do not have medical insurance, they will let you die on the steps of the hospital. In Jamaica, if you meet a kind-hearted physician, maybe he will treat you right away and save your life, but he will then charge for his services and within a year or two if you do not pay you will probably go to prison. We are very fortunate to live in the United States.
In terms of actual medical care, our system is alm... (show quote)


Easy to see you value your money more than your life.

Reply
Oct 20, 2016 19:05:42   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
Richard94611 wrote:
In terms of actual medical care, our system is almost certainly the best in the world. In terms of costs, our system is one of the worst. One thing we are very fortunate to have is a set of laws that require hospitals to treat people for emergencies when they go to a hospital, whether or not they can pay for the treatment. And, at least in California, we have a system of county hospitals that people without money usually go to for treatment. They receive a bill, but many people simply cannot and do not pay. Maybe it gets on their credit report, but so what ? At least their lives are saved. In countries such as Ghana or Jamaica, and many, many others, you can have a life-threatening illness such as appendicitis, and if you cannot pay up front for the emergency treatment or if you do not have medical insurance, they will let you die on the steps of the hospital. In Jamaica, if you meet a kind-hearted physician, maybe he will treat you right away and save your life, but he will then charge for his services and within a year or two if you do not pay you will probably go to prison. We are very fortunate to live in the United States.
In terms of actual medical care, our system is alm... (show quote)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually I didn't know California still had county hospitals. When I lived there years ago, our county hospital closed and I had the impression all of them did, which I thought was especially stupid, even for California. But as to treatment regardless of ability to pay, isn't it wonderful those policies/laws existed long before Obama became an American?

Reply
Oct 20, 2016 19:27:05   #
Richard94611
 
I don't know about other counties, but Alameda County has a large and thriving county hospital.

Tasine wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually I didn't know California still had county hospitals. When I lived there years ago, our county hospital closed and I had the impression all of them did, which I thought was especially stupid, even for California. But as to treatment regardless of ability to pay, isn't it wonderful those policies/laws existed long before Obama became an American?

Reply
Oct 20, 2016 19:28:05   #
Richard94611
 
Did you shop around online for the same med at a cheaper price ?

Tasine wrote:
You're right on all counts as near as I can tell. And, yes, our grandchildren, great grandchildren will probably never prosper, thanks to OUR GOVERNMENT. In MY view, those kids, nor WE, owe those trillions of dollars. The people who SHOULD be charged with the wasteful irresponsible spending are our elected officials and THEIR appointed employees who don't think twice about wasting millions of dollars. We are being "led" by a bunch of irresponsible, incompetent thieves WE did put into office, but I maintain that ignorant voters elected most of those politicians who are the most corrupt in the bunch, and it makes me darned mad that idiots can cause all the rest of us such pain and discomfort while THEY never give a thought to what they are doing that is destructive to our nation. I realize we have a government that is of the people, by the people, for the people......but it is a craven LIE. It is no such thing. What we have is an oligarchy that is not about to give up its power just to please voters whom they see as nothing more than tools and somebody to blame for their mistakes and crimes.

The political left is as craven as their politicians and the entire crowd is a bunch of sociopaths who SHOULD be seeing psychiatrists and watched after as they have a complete inability to think, to utilize logic, to reason and think things out. They have been totally brainwashed by their "leaders" and teachers throughout the decades.

BTW, be careful about having no medical coverage unless you are quite well off financially. I was ordered a med this week that for a month's supply was over $1000.00......I told the pharmacist to FORGET IT.....it was not a necessity for me. To make matters worse, some medications cost more than that, some VERY MUCH MORE THAN THAT. It is obscene and grotesque what our once fine medical situation has become under Obama. I can hardly wait until he exits the scene......if he ever DOES.
You're right on all counts as near as I can tell. ... (show quote)

Reply
Oct 20, 2016 19:34:54   #
Morgan
 
Loki wrote:
Your contention that giving tax breaks to the wealthy is a little timeworn. The wealthy could be taxed at 100% of their income and it would fund the goverment for a little over a month.

The facts are that the wealthy have most of their money in sheltered accounts. They already pay more than 75% of the taxes out of what isn't. The facts are that both Democrat and Republican lawmakers voted for these shelters for their own benefit, and that of their large contributors and they are not about to make any meaningful changes. They can talk crap all day long and do their sideshows, but nothing will change. I I have $1000, and $990 is in a sheltered account, I don't much care how much you tax the remaining ten bucks.
Your contention that giving tax breaks to i the w... (show quote)



Good point Loki and I don't disagree with you. We're on a continuing cycle. The law makers and representatives will never change something that is in their own self interest. Now what?

Reply
Oct 20, 2016 19:51:10   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
Richard94611 wrote:
Did you shop around online for the same med at a cheaper price ?

It is a medicine that has no generic cousin which I can buy. No, I did no shopping around, and I left a message for my doctor. I am a veteran and can get a generic drug that is similar, but my doctor may not approve the lesser drug as it has some different properties than the one he intended I take. It would be MUCH, MUCH cheaper, but may not attack the issues the doc has in mind.

Reply
Oct 20, 2016 19:53:35   #
Richard94611
 
I found some medications at Walmart to cost about 1/4 what they did elsewhere. Give them a call. Incidentally, there are 26 public county hospitals and associated hospitals in California.

Tasine wrote:
It is a medicine that has no generic cousin which I can buy. No, I did no shopping around, and I left a message for my doctor. I am a veteran and can get a generic drug that is similar, but my doctor may not approve the lesser drug as it has some different properties than the one he intended I take. It would be MUCH, MUCH cheaper, but may not attack the issues the doc has in mind.

Reply
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