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Did Christ Die for Your Sins?
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Aug 27, 2016 14:58:17   #
archie bunker Loc: Texas
 
Cool Breeze wrote:
Did Christ die for your Sins or because of them. http://www.theologos.net/Once4All.htm How can we reject such a salvation? How can we repay Christ for what he has done? Are we willing to die for Christ Conservatives?


Needing attention, I see. I won't bother. I have cheesecake. Have a good day!

Reply
Aug 27, 2016 15:06:59   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Good article, read with pleassure. Thank you.

As some may know, I love history and while in the Employee of the Smithsonian (a short diversion from DOD) I often found myself in libraries... during one of my many visits I found a document, actually a manuscript that was on loan from Lord Kelly. There is a short paragraph in a short epistle to the Senate, written by Tiberius Caesar, Publius Lentullus, President of Judea, concerning the Nazarene called Jesus. For what it is worth, it is quoted for your consideration: "There appeared in these our days a man, of the Jewish Nation, of great virtue, named Yeshua [Jesus], who is yet living among us, and of the Gentiles is accepted for a Prophet of truth, but His own disciples call Him the Son of God- He raiseth the dead and cureth all manner of diseases. A man of stature somewhat tall, and comely, with very reverent countenance, such as the beholders may both love and fear, his hair of (the colour of) the chestnut, full ripe, plain to His ears, whence downwards it is more orient and curling and wavering about His shoulders. In the midst of His head is a seam or partition in His hair, after the manner of the Nazarenes. His forehead plain and very delicate; His face without spot or wrinkle, beautified with a lovely red; His nose and mouth so formed as nothing can be reprehended; His beard thickish, in colour like His hair, not very long, but forked; His look innocent and mature; His eyes grey, clear, and quick- In reproving hypocrisy He is terrible; in admonishing, courteous and fair spoken; pleasant in conversation, mixed with gravity. It cannot be remembered that any have seen Him Laugh, but many have seen Him Weep. In proportion of body, most excellent; His hands and arms delicate to behold. In speaking, very temperate, modest, and wise. A man, for His singular beauty, surpassing the children of men."

And there is a second one that I found in the Congressional Library in Washington, D.C which is an account from Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar, again I quote it for your consideration: "He is the picture of his mother, only he has not her smooth, round face. His hair is a little more golden than hers, though it is as much from sunburn as anything else. He is tall, and his shoulders are a little drooped; his visage is thin and of a swarthy complexion, though this is from exposure. His eyes are large and a soft blue, and rather dull and heavy...."

Both descriptions are very possible, going back into the Tanakh you will find in Genius 25:25 and 1 Samuel 16:12 and 17:42 that both Esau and King David described as admoni... which translates to red or ruddy. Of course this is not conclusive that Jesus was a ginger, but one has to consider the gene MC1R, which is the gene for red hair or reddish hair, and the NT makes the case that Mary was a direct descendant of King David. The mention of these ginger men sets them apart from others for only one reason.... it is estimated that currently only one percent of the world population are gingers.

Singularity wrote:
The Real Face Of Jesus
Advances in forensic science reveal the most famous face in history.

By Mike Fillon
Jan 23, 2015
37.7k
From the first time Christian children settle into Sunday school classrooms, an image of Jesus Christ is etched into their minds. In North America he is most often depicted as being taller than his disciples, lean, with long, flowing, light brown hair, fair skin and light-colored eyes. Familiar though this image may be, it is inherently flawed. A person with these features and physical bearing would have looked very different from everyone else in the region where Jesus lived and ministered. Surely the authors of the Bible would have mentioned so stark a contrast.

On the contrary, according to the Gospel of Matthew, when Jesus was arrested in the garden of Gethsemane before the Crucifixion, Judas Iscariot had to indicate to the soldiers whom Jesus was because they could not tell him apart from his disciples. Further clouding the question of what Jesus looked like is the simple fact that nowhere in the New Testament is Jesus described, nor have any drawings of him ever been uncovered.

There is the additional problem of having neither a skeleton nor other bodily remains to probe for DNA. In the absence of evidence, our images of Jesus have been left to the imagination of artists. The influences of the artists' cultures and traditions can be profound, observes Carlos F. Cardoza-Orlandi, associate professor of world Christianity at Columbia Theological Seminary in Atlanta. "While Western imagery is dominant, in other parts of the world he is often shown as black, Arab or Hispanic." And so the fundamental question remains: What did Jesus look like?

An answer has emerged from an exciting new field of science: forensic anthropology. Using methods similar to those police have developed to solve crimes, British scientists, assisted by Israeli archeologists, have re-created what they believe is the most accurate image of the most famous face in human history.

THE BODY AS EVIDENCE
An outgrowth of physical anthropology, forensic anthropology uses cultural and archeological data as well as the physical and biological sciences to study different groups of people, explains A. Midori Albert, a professor who teaches forensic anthropology at the University of North Carolina at Wilmington. Experts in this highly specialized field require a working knowledge of genetics, and human growth and development. In their research they also draw from the fields of primatology, paleoanthropology (the study of primate and human evolution) and human osteology (the study of the skeleton). Even seemingly distant fields like nutrition, dentistry and climate adaptation play a role in this type of investigation.

While forensic anthropology is usually used to solve crimes, Richard Neave, a medical artist retired from The University of Manchester in England, realized it also could shed light on the appearance of Jesus. The co-author of Making Faces: Using Forensic And Archaeological Evidence, Neave had ventured in controversial areas before. Over the past two decades, he had reconstructed dozens of famous faces, including Philip II of Macedonia, the father of Alexander the Great, and King Midas of Phrygia. If anyone could create an accurate portrait of Jesus, it would be Neave.

RECONSTRUCTING JESUS
Matthew's description of the events in Gethsemane offers an obvious clue to the face of Jesus. It is clear that his features were typical of Galilean Semites of his era. And so the first step for Neave and his research team was to acquire skulls from near Jerusalem, the region where Jesus lived and preached. Semite skulls of this type had previously been found by Israeli archeology experts, who shared them with Neave.

With three well-preserved specimens from the time of Jesus in hand, Neave used computerized tomography to create X-ray "slices" of the skulls, thus revealing minute details about each one's structure. Special computer programs then evaluated reams of information about known measurements of the thickness of soft tissue at key areas on human faces. This made it possible to re-create the muscles and skin overlying a representative Semite skull.

The entire process was accomplished using software that verified the results with anthropological data. From this data, the researchers built a digital 3D reconstruction of the face. Next, they created a cast of the skull. Layers of clay matching the thickness of facial tissues specified by the computer program were then applied, along with simulated skin. The nose, lips and eyelids were then modeled to follow the shape determined by the underlying muscles.

A MATTER OF STYLE
Two key factors could not be determined from the skull—Jesus's hair and coloration. To fill in these parts of the picture, Neave's team turned to drawings found at various archeological sites, dated to the first century. Drawn before the Bible was compiled, they held crucial clues that enabled the researchers to determine that Jesus had dark rather than light-colored eyes. They also pointed out that in keeping with Jewish tradition, he was bearded as well.

It was the Bible, however, that resolved the question of the length of Jesus's hair. While most religious artists have put long hair on Christ, most biblical scholars believe that it was probably short with tight curls. This assumption, however, contradicted what many believe to be the most authentic depiction: the face seen in the image on the famous—some say infamous—Shroud of Turin. The shroud is believed by many to be the cloth in which Jesus's body was wrapped after his death. Although there is a difference of opinion as to whether the shroud is genuine, it clearly depicts a figure with long hair. Those who criticize the shroud's legitimacy point to 1 Corinthians, one of the many New Testament books the apostle Paul is credited with writing. In one chapter he mentions having seen Jesus—then later describes long hair on a man as disgraceful. Would Paul have written "If a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him" if Jesus Christ had had long hair? For Neave and his team this settled the issue. Jesus, as drawings from the first century depict, would have had short hair, appropriate to men of the time.


The historic record also resolved the issue of Jesus's height. From an analysis of skeletal remains, archeologists had firmly established that the average build of a Semite male at the time of Jesus was 5 ft. 1 in., with an average weight of about 110 pounds. Since Jesus worked outdoors as a carpenter until he was about 30 years old, it is reasonable to assume he was more muscular and physically fit than westernized portraits suggest. His face was probably weather-beaten, which would have made him appear older, as well.

Computer models (left) and modeling clay enable Neave (right) to create a forensically acceptable facial reconstruction.

AN ACCURATE PORTRAIT
For those accustomed to traditional Sunday school portraits of Jesus, the sculpture of the dark and swarthy Middle Eastern man that emerges from Neave's laboratory is a reminder of the roots of their faith. "The fact that he probably looked a great deal more like a darker-skinned Semite than westerners are used to seeing him pictured is a reminder of his universality," says Charles D. Hackett, director of Episcopal studies at the Candler School of Theology in Atlanta. "And [it is] a reminder of our tendency to sinfully appropriate him in the service of our cultural values."

Neave emphasizes that his re-creation is simply that of an adult man who lived in the same place and at the same time as Jesus. As might well be expected, not everyone agrees.

Forensic depictions are not an exact science, cautions Alison Galloway, professor of anthropology at the University of California in Santa Cruz. The details in a face follow the soft tissue above the muscle, and it is here where forensic artists differ widely in technique. Galloway points out that some artists pay more attention to the subtle differences in such details as the distance between the bottom of the nose and the mouth. And the most recognizable features of the face—the folds of the eyes, structure of the nose and shape of the mouth—are left to the artist. "In some cases the resemblance between the reconstruction and the actual individual can be uncanny," says Galloway. "But in others there may be more resemblance with the other work of the same artist." Despite this reservation, she reaches one conclusion that is inescapable to almost everyone who has ever seen Neave's Jesus. "This is probably a lot closer to the truth than the work of many great masters."
The Real Face Of Jesus br Advances in forensic sci... (show quote)

Reply
Aug 27, 2016 15:28:46   #
Cool Breeze
 
PaulPisces wrote:
Somehow I am remembering the opening line to Patti Smith's "Gloria"

"Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine"


If he didn't then you're still in your Sins.

Reply
 
 
Aug 27, 2016 15:32:10   #
Cool Breeze
 
archie bunker wrote:
Needing attention, I see. I won't bother. I have cheesecake. Have a good day!


You already have! Duh? Do you like mush?

Reply
Aug 27, 2016 15:45:25   #
Cool Breeze
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Good article, read with pleassure. Thank you.

As some may know, I love history and while in the Employee of the Smithsonian (a short diversion from DOD) I often found myself in libraries... during one of my many visits I found a document, actually a manuscript that was on loan from Lord Kelly. There is a short paragraph in a short epistle to the Senate, written by Tiberius Caesar, Publius Lentullus, President of Judea, concerning the Nazarene called Jesus. For what it is worth, it is quoted for your consideration: "There appeared in these our days a man, of the Jewish Nation, of great virtue, named Yeshua [Jesus], who is yet living among us, and of the Gentiles is accepted for a Prophet of truth, but His own disciples call Him the Son of God- He raiseth the dead and cureth all manner of diseases. A man of stature somewhat tall, and comely, with very reverent countenance, such as the beholders may both love and fear, his hair of (the colour of) the chestnut, full ripe, plain to His ears, whence downwards it is more orient and curling and wavering about His shoulders. In the midst of His head is a seam or partition in His hair, after the manner of the Nazarenes. His forehead plain and very delicate; His face without spot or wrinkle, beautified with a lovely red; His nose and mouth so formed as nothing can be reprehended; His beard thickish, in colour like His hair, not very long, but forked; His look innocent and mature; His eyes grey, clear, and quick- In reproving hypocrisy He is terrible; in admonishing, courteous and fair spoken; pleasant in conversation, mixed with gravity. It cannot be remembered that any have seen Him Laugh, but many have seen Him Weep. In proportion of body, most excellent; His hands and arms delicate to behold. In speaking, very temperate, modest, and wise. A man, for His singular beauty, surpassing the children of men."

And there is a second one that I found in the Congressional Library in Washington, D.C which is an account from Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar, again I quote it for your consideration: "He is the picture of his mother, only he has not her smooth, round face. His hair is a little more golden than hers, though it is as much from sunburn as anything else. He is tall, and his shoulders are a little drooped; his visage is thin and of a swarthy complexion, though this is from exposure. His eyes are large and a soft blue, and rather dull and heavy...."

Both descriptions are very possible, going back into the Tanakh you will find in Genius 25:25 and 1 Samuel 16:12 and 17:42 that both Esau and King David described as admoni... which translates to red or ruddy. Of course this is not conclusive that Jesus was a ginger, but one has to consider the gene MC1R, which is the gene for red hair or reddish hair, and the NT makes the case that Mary was a direct descendant of King David. The mention of these ginger men sets them apart from others for only one reason.... it is estimated that currently only one percent of the world population are gingers.
Good article, read with pleassure. Thank you. b... (show quote)

Reply
Aug 27, 2016 15:47:26   #
Cool Breeze
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Good article, read with pleassure. Thank you.

As some may know, I love history and while in the Employee of the Smithsonian (a short diversion from DOD) I often found myself in libraries... during one of my many visits I found a document, actually a manuscript that was on loan from Lord Kelly. There is a short paragraph in a short epistle to the Senate, written by Tiberius Caesar, Publius Lentullus, President of Judea, concerning the Nazarene called Jesus. For what it is worth, it is quoted for your consideration: "There appeared in these our days a man, of the Jewish Nation, of great virtue, named Yeshua [Jesus], who is yet living among us, and of the Gentiles is accepted for a Prophet of truth, but His own disciples call Him the Son of God- He raiseth the dead and cureth all manner of diseases. A man of stature somewhat tall, and comely, with very reverent countenance, such as the beholders may both love and fear, his hair of (the colour of) the chestnut, full ripe, plain to His ears, whence downwards it is more orient and curling and wavering about His shoulders. In the midst of His head is a seam or partition in His hair, after the manner of the Nazarenes. His forehead plain and very delicate; His face without spot or wrinkle, beautified with a lovely red; His nose and mouth so formed as nothing can be reprehended; His beard thickish, in colour like His hair, not very long, but forked; His look innocent and mature; His eyes grey, clear, and quick- In reproving hypocrisy He is terrible; in admonishing, courteous and fair spoken; pleasant in conversation, mixed with gravity. It cannot be remembered that any have seen Him Laugh, but many have seen Him Weep. In proportion of body, most excellent; His hands and arms delicate to behold. In speaking, very temperate, modest, and wise. A man, for His singular beauty, surpassing the children of men."

And there is a second one that I found in the Congressional Library in Washington, D.C which is an account from Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar, again I quote it for your consideration: "He is the picture of his mother, only he has not her smooth, round face. His hair is a little more golden than hers, though it is as much from sunburn as anything else. He is tall, and his shoulders are a little drooped; his visage is thin and of a swarthy complexion, though this is from exposure. His eyes are large and a soft blue, and rather dull and heavy...."

Both descriptions are very possible, going back into the Tanakh you will find in Genius 25:25 and 1 Samuel 16:12 and 17:42 that both Esau and King David described as admoni... which translates to red or ruddy. Of course this is not conclusive that Jesus was a ginger, but one has to consider the gene MC1R, which is the gene for red hair or reddish hair, and the NT makes the case that Mary was a direct descendant of King David. The mention of these ginger men sets them apart from others for only one reason.... it is estimated that currently only one percent of the world population are gingers.
Good article, read with pleassure. Thank you. b... (show quote)


You might find this interesting.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_appearance_of_Jesus

Reply
Aug 27, 2016 15:48:16   #
Singularity
 
archie bunker wrote:
Needing attention, I see. I won't bother. I have cheesecake. Have a good day!

I started to like and respect you for a second, but after this racist bullshit, you have begun to disgust me. I will be at grave disadvantage in conversing with you for a bit, as it will take a grave amount of self control in order not to severely abuse you.

It's probably curdled. Hope so anyway.

See? I have little self control in these situations.



Reply
 
 
Aug 27, 2016 15:54:08   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Cool Breeze wrote:
Did Christ die for your Sins or because of them. http://www.theologos.net/Once4All.htm How can we reject such a salvation? How can we repay Christ for what he has done? Are we willing to die for Christ Conservatives?


Ah, black Jesus.

Well, there might have been a Jesus of some color, or not, but he didn't rise from the dead or perform miracles. Thus your question is irrelevant.

The mythical Jesus claims to have died for us to receive forgiveness of our sins by a god who I guess can't do that without having his son killed. Odd. And I guess if we hadn't sinned there would have been no need. So, it would appear that the mythical Jesus died both for and because of our sins.

Now knowing it to be mythical, there is no denial. Nor is there any rejection or acceptance.

Therefore, what does black Jesus have to do with ANYTHING under the sun???

Reply
Aug 27, 2016 15:56:34   #
Singularity
 
Cool Breeze wrote:
If he didn't then you're still in your Sins.

In the absence of a deity, there is no such thing as sin. There are accidents, mistakes, offences, crimes and unfortunate choices, hatefulness..... But sin refers particularly to the emotional reaction of deity...hurts its feelings, makes it angry, throws tantrums and floods, etc

Absent sufficient evidence to persuade me to feel obligated to believe any deities exist, I can't get too worked up about the imagined lack of emotional competence of your particular God.

Reply
Aug 27, 2016 16:40:30   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
No, not really.... in fact I find Wikipedia unreliable and often wrong. Wikipedia is written by contributors and they, for the most part, are without qualifications. You will find this disclaimer on the website “[W]hile some articles are of the highest quality of scholarship, others are admittedly complete rubbish. … use [Wikipedia] with an informed understanding of what it is and what it isn't.” I find many of the articles biased and without merit, in fact often the articles are fabricated. Take the example in March 2009, Irish student Shane Fitzgerald, who was conducting research on the Internet and globalization of information, posted a fake quotation on the Wikipedia article about recently deceased French composer Maurice Jarre. Due to the fact that the quote was not attributed to a reliable source, it was removed several times by editors, but Fitzgerald continued re-posting it until it was allowed to remain. More astounding, this student soon found his article used by the media showing the modern journalist rarely investigate stories or sources, but rely on the Internet. Another reason I do not use Wikipedia is the administration of the site, beginning in 2003, U.K. scientist William Connolley became a Web site administrator and subsequently wrote or rewrote more than 5,000 Wikipedia articles supporting the concept of climate change and global warming. More importantly, he used his authority to ban more than 2,000 contributors with opposing viewpoints from making further contributions. Furthermore, as Wikipedia notes in its “About” section, “Users should be aware that not all articles are of encyclopedic quality from the start: they may contain false or debatable information.” See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:About

But, I thank you for your interest..... however, I will stick to doing research into those old faded books written years ago, current information published in science, medical, and anthropology journals, the Bible, and other references that have strong reputation for researchable information.
Cool Breeze wrote:

Reply
Aug 27, 2016 17:25:19   #
TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!
 
Thank you to all! The picture in my head of Jesus has now been corrected! 👍

Reply
 
 
Aug 27, 2016 17:35:14   #
archie bunker Loc: Texas
 
Singularity wrote:
I started to like and respect you for a second, but after this racist bullshit, you have begun to disgust me. I will be at grave disadvantage in conversing with you for a bit, as it will take a grave amount of self control in order not to severely abuse you.

It's probably curdled. Hope so anyway.

See? I have little self control in these situations.


Oh WOW!! I was not aware that cheesecake was a race related dessert! My bad!
No, it's not curdled at all. It was made last night by my wife from a recipe someone posted on Facebook. Fresh strawberries, and all.
I was excited all morning because she was leaving for a few hours, and I had free rein with it. I was too full after supper yesterday to enjoy more than a small slice, so I wanted to tear me up some of it today! I did! And it is delicious!👍👍

I'm sorry that my choice of an amazing dessert over arguing over what color Jesus was has offended you so badly!

Reply
Aug 27, 2016 17:54:13   #
Singularity
 
archie bunker wrote:
Oh WOW!! I was not aware that cheesecake was a race related dessert! My bad!
No, it's not curdled at all. It was made last night by my wife from a recipe someone posted on Facebook. Fresh strawberries, and all.
I was excited all morning because she was leaving for a few hours, and I had free rein with it. I was too full after supper yesterday to enjoy more than a small slice, so I wanted to tear me up some of it today! I did! And it is delicious!👍👍

I'm sorry that my choice of an amazing dessert over arguing over what color Jesus was has offended you so badly!
Oh WOW!! img src="https://static.onepoliticalplaz... (show quote)

Remember this?:
archie bunker wrote:
Actually, I do. I tell these wanna be gangstas to pull up their damn pant all the time. You think being black makes you a badass? It doesn't when you act like a punk! Black people scoff at you negros on a daily basis. Just go ask a black person, who is not a nigger.

Another OPP member wrote:
FYI, African blacks don't like niggers either. Is that racist? There's a reason people hate niggers, and it's not because of their skin color. There was a black guy I used to be friends with. His name was Benjamin Neal. Nice guy. That's because he didn't act like a nigger.

Reply
Aug 27, 2016 17:57:06   #
Singularity
 
Singularity wrote:
Remember this?:
archie bunker wrote:
Actually, I do. I tell these wanna be gangstas to pull up their damn pant all the time. You think being black makes you a badass? It doesn't when you act like a punk! Black people scoff at you negros on a daily basis. Just go ask a black person, who is not a nigger.

Another OPP member wrote:
FYI, African blacks don't like niggers either. Is that racist? There's a reason people hate niggers, and it's not because of their skin color. There was a black guy I used to be friends with. His name was Benjamin Neal. Nice guy. That's because he didn't act like a nigger.
Remember this?: br archie bunker wrote: br Actuall... (show quote)

(Main)
What will happen on day 2 of the Trump administration?

Another OPP member wrote:
Just be sure to walk around black people talking cracka-ish like you do in OPP if you really want motherfkers to bring it!!!!

Archie Bunker wrote:
I do. The black people I know are decent folks who don't have a chip on their shoulder, and look at you negros as a lower class of monkeys.

Reply
Aug 27, 2016 17:58:28   #
Singularity
 
Singularity wrote:
(Main)
What will happen on day 2 of the Trump administration?
A Democrat In 2016 wrote:
Just be sure to walk around black people talking cracka-ish like you do in OPP if you really want motherfkers to bring it!!!!

Archie Bunker wrote:
I do. The black people I know are decent folks who don't have a chip on their shoulder, and look at you negros as a lower class of monkeys.

Still confused?

Reply
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