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Transgender Dysphoria?
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May 19, 2016 12:30:34   #
PeterS
 
Cool Breeze wrote:
Here's a philosophical conundrum. Gender Neutral Sex. Can you imagine the possibilities? When Pandora opened the box all kind of evil was released. She closed the box just in time to save hope.


Well, go to France and you will find gender neutral bathrooms. Maybe some people should just stop worrying so much about what sex others might be...

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May 19, 2016 12:34:30   #
PeterS
 
Artemis wrote:
This is why the language of this NEW law is paramount. To state how someone identifies with himself is not precise enough. It should say more to the point, that the physical attributes are to be in alignment with the corresponding rest room. Geez they've really opened up this Pandora's box forcing this bill into law. I believe there will be no other place to move forward but to eventually go to gender neutral bathrooms. Human beings are very accommodating to change, it's what has helped us survive, so here we are.
This is why the language of this NEW law is paramo... (show quote)


"They?" Just who are you talking about?

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May 19, 2016 13:05:57   #
Cool Breeze
 
PaulPisces wrote:
Somehow I'm not really surprised to hear someone drawing on ancient mythology to speak about this real issue.


I've learned to roll with the punches.

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May 19, 2016 16:06:37   #
Holdenbeach4u Loc: Holden Beach , NC
 
Texas and North Carolina will not go along with this very bad Law at all .
Wake up American this could cause big big problem in public schools in all 48 states omit Texas and NC at the present time . This policy need be stop because we do not need both sex in same locker rooms or bathrooms yet !

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May 19, 2016 16:29:35   #
northernlights
 
PeterS wrote:
"They?" Just who are you talking about?


I believe she's referring to the people who created the law. It's one thing to create a simple ordinance it's another to make a law about going to the wrong bathroom and have a criminal charge against you.

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May 19, 2016 21:44:01   #
bilordinary Loc: SW Washington
 
America Only wrote:
She is firing squad material. NO blind fold nor last smoke coming to her either!


Maybe beheading would be more fitting.

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May 19, 2016 22:25:47   #
Artemis
 
Singularity wrote:



Very true

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May 19, 2016 22:28:01   #
Artemis
 
PaulPisces wrote:
Somehow I'm not really surprised to hear someone drawing on ancient mythology to speak about this real issue.



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May 19, 2016 22:30:06   #
bilordinary Loc: SW Washington
 
no propaganda please wrote:
Yes, it is a beautiful picture but you missed the wolf, right hand upper portion.


how bout the horse

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May 19, 2016 23:34:07   #
PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.
 
bill horn wrote:
Maybe beheading would be more fitting.


Which head?

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May 19, 2016 23:40:29   #
bilordinary Loc: SW Washington
 
Singularity wrote:
I could tell you that most doc's dx would be "PPP," *excuse me*, that would be "piss poor protoplasm," but I think the problem is actually most likely communicable via an iatrogenic process.


Ya know I was thinkin the same thing.

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Check out topic: Second Amendment Case
May 20, 2016 07:45:04   #
buffalo Loc: Texas
 
Ran across this this morning:

By Joseph J. Horton | May 19, 2016 | 11:12 AM EDT

Members of the "M*A*S*H" cast gather around to bury Klinger's yellow dress in a foot-locker time capsule during taping of the show's final episode in January 1983. The 2 1/2-hour finale was the highest-rated television show in Nielsen Media Research history, and still hasn't been topped. From left, are cast members Loretta Swit, Mike Farrell, Jamie Farr, Harry Morgan, Alan Alda and William Christopher. (AP Photo/Red McLendon)
In M*A*S*H, one of America’s longest-running TV shows, the beloved character Max Klinger dressed as a woman. Klinger hoped to get a so-called “Section 8,” which is a mental-health discharge in the military. Everyone who watched the show when it ran in prime time understood that a man who thought he was a woman had a mental-health challenge. According to the script, not even Klinger himself really believed he was a woman. Today we are confronted with the challenge of how to respond to individuals who truly believe their mental experience of gender does not match their biology.

Thus teen girls are being told that they must share locker rooms with people who are biologically male. We are told that we need to be inclusive. But where is the concern for the privacy and comfort of those who do not want to change clothes next to people who are objectively a different gender?

A solution to the social aspect of this challenge would be for transgender individuals to use single-stall family restrooms and changing facilities. There are many people for whom these restrooms are helpful, including people with small children and individuals with special needs who require assistance from a family member. However, advocates for transgender people typically oppose this solution. They claim that this makes transgender individuals feel excluded and that inclusion requires people to use the restroom, locker room, or shower that is consistent with each person’s gender identification. We are told that people who are uncomfortable with this should stop discriminating.

Even if it made sense for the federal government to dictate bathroom usage, the decree issued recently by the Obama administration would have missed the mark. While making the claim of inclusiveness and compassion, it disregards privacy and safety concerns of many citizens and does nothing to acknowledge the real challenge that transgender individuals face.

The claim is that one’s mental experience determines the truth. If one feels like a woman, one must be a woman; physiology and genetics do not matter. But one’s mental experience does not determine truth. A noncontroversial example is the Muller-Lyer Illusion. When viewing the two lines, one appears to be clearly longer than the other, even though the length of both lines is exactly the same. The feeling that one line is longer than the other is experienced, but this is misleading. It is possible to have powerful and persistent feelings that are objectively false. Similarly, one’s gender identity does not determine the truth. Gender is biologically determined. Surgery and hormones may change external appearances, but the genetic reality remains.

In other mental-health contexts, we readily accept that people’s mental experiences may not reflect reality. People with anorexia believe they are fat despite being dangerously underweight. It would be cruel, not helpful, to agree with people who have anorexia that they are fat. People with depression often feel worthless. Yet we do not assure people with depression that they are in fact worthless. We help people with depression to recognize their worth.

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May 20, 2016 12:40:56   #
Louie27 Loc: Peoria, AZ
 
Singularity wrote:
I did minor editing for grammar, small extra thoughts, after posting the bulk of it. So yes, if anyone notices minor differences, I am responsible for them. Thank you for pointing that out...

What does it matter if we consider it a disorder or a condition or a normal variation? (Or a sin? Not my area.)

It is the degree of human suffereing, agony really, that the need for change engenders in some. The excruciatingly powerful and unremitting desire, need or conviction of "something wrong," occurring as young as two years and sustained throughout the person's development, into adulthood impacts powerfully upon the therapist.

As your article pointed out, so far, treatment to relieve persons of the conviction or live with it resignedly are abysmal failures, often adding to the anguish as some surgical procedures are attempted but are disappointingly unhelpful, or unsuccessful, even disfiguring. Some are done in other countries by unscrupulous practitioners of questionable education or skill.

The clinical therapist of any ilk most likely chose the profession out of a sincere desire to allieviate human suffering. It is not surprising that some might dispair and act as they feel humanly compelled. But doctors follow protocols for quality assurance and ethical uniformity. An ethical practitioner who performs such a procedure would submit the case for review to other professional boards, ethical boards, etc for the go ahead to perform any planned untried procedure properly, and prior actions may be sanctioned for noncompliance with professional standards.

Surgical transition is monumental. The pressure of the patients misery must be profound and unremitting and unresponsive to any other possible intervention for surgical transition to be considered. As we know, the misery, combined with the lack of understanding and sympathy from all they encounter, and especially for a conservative Christian teen, who loves the LORD, and knows with all his heart that his parents, family and community AS WELL AS HE HIMSELF, consider him an abomination. His father can't meet his eye and his mother cries all the time and it's his fault and he CANT CHANGE IT TO SAVE HIS SOUL!

Yes, hormonal treatment may have unexpected side effects and surgeries don't always turn out successfully and some persons may have regrets. (I may have read a study that explains a declining rate of dissatisfaction as surgical procedures and techniques are improved over time. I will look for it once baby goes down for her nap.)

The type and specificity of hormones and blockers used in treatment for humans undergo more rigorous testing and quality control than do veterinary preparations often administered by breeders rather than the veterinarian trained in the field. (Often, as you would know, some breeders knowledge and finesse with caring for their animals despite lack of veterinary credentials is better tuned than the vet!)

The guiding principle with experimental protocols and procedures is to balance the expected benefits with the potential harm. Then to evaluate in the actual results to determine whether a protocol or treatment will become mainstream or be filed away to be forgotten. Or supplanted by a newer, better way to alleviate this suffering.

Sometimes I find your descriptions are rather flip and frankly tactlessly unsympathetic. I suppose you do, as well, with my religious posts. I CAN guarantee you if a BETTER treatment were available, or becomes widely available, transgender surgery will become as infrequent as lobotomies!

Meanwhile, we have these real people who are as uncomprehending of the how and why they are the way they are as the rest of us. But THEY are the human beings who are in tremendous agony. They feel the mismatch and the pain it engenders. If one listens sympathetically and patiently one hears and feels a small bit of that for a short time. And just as chronic pain is incomprehensible to most others, "Surely there are a few days every now and then where you feel just fine, don't you?" "I've seen you out and smiling as of you had no cares in the world! (*medicated!*) so many ask ME. "No. It hurts every second of every day and sometimes gets worse." They shake their heads uncomprehendingly and their eyes glaze over. They move on to other topics. Spend another hour visiting, I see them out, all the while smiling, SMILING, because a human "shouldn't, "couldn't'" feel bad pain all the time and I don't want them to feel sad or worried about it. And possibly never visit again due to their discomfort. But I will have been in that same damn pain, continuously and still smilingly, SMILINGLY, helpfully relieving my friend's discomfort at my suffering.

It is understandable that a loving person with a lapse in professional self discipline or supervision, may find themselves overwhelmed by their need to help. And act in what they feel to be a loving helpful human manner as they pour drain cleaner in a young woman's eyes!

That is why we have educational standards, licensing and ethical boards to advise law enforcement regarding criminality issues and assist in determining and understanding, if possible, any breach of ethical standards. We police ourselves because we are the only ones knowledgeable to do so. In this rarefied profession, we must judge ourselves and submit to ethical standards and treatment or become relieved of our licenses to practice.

This is my issue with the Tennessee Bill which compromised the push to mandate issuance of licenses to those with conscientious objections to learning the material and techniques available and to refrain in specific areas to continuously to update oneself in new areas, as well as related fields. Their lack of contact, concern and understanding is and would perpetually remain inadequate as they remain oblivious. Instead, they are allowed, even in areas of critical shortages of adequately trained professionals, to refer undesirable patients to others. By handing them a year old list of phone numbers for professionals two or three counties distant...

This has gotten very long. I should perhaps have split it into several posts, but

Here it is.
I did minor editing for grammar, small extra thoug... (show quote)


I believe all of this fuss is not about the transgender people but about those who may use this Obama edict to attack young children or women who use these facilities. I would hope that is the case and not bigotry.

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May 20, 2016 12:48:10   #
buffalo Loc: Texas
 
Louie27 wrote:
I believe all of this fuss is not about the transgender people but about those who may use this Obama edict to attack young children or women who use these facilities. I would hope that is the case and not bigotry.


Transgenderism is a mental disorder like anorexia or depression.

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May 20, 2016 14:33:15   #
no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun
 
Louie27 wrote:
I believe all of this fuss is not about the transgender people but about those who may use this Obama edict to attack young children or women who use these facilities. I would hope that is the case and not bigotry.



That has been my contention all along that it will force women and children to ignore their instincts in a fight or flight situation. That Jenner might arrive in the women's washroom was not the concern. From the standpoint of public shows when open showers are what is available the concept of a person with breasts and penis and testicles showering next to a woman and her 8 year old daughter, that is another story. No, SWMBO would not ask Jenner for beauty makeup suggestions. Jenner's face, if the photo is NOT PHOTOSHOPPED, is decidedly masculine.

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