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Apr 18, 2016 16:25:54   #
Architect1776 Loc: Williamsport
 
Singularity wrote:
You refuse to acknowledge reality by blatantly lying to my face in the presence of unrefuted evidence to the contrary. Can't help you with that. Neither reality, nor I, require your approval or agreement.

You are also insulting and mean spirited.


When the argument for a liberal fails they always resort to personal attacks.
Un-refuted evidence?
Note, I just refuted it.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Reply
Apr 18, 2016 16:30:45   #
no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun
 
Singularity wrote:
Your ad hominem is noted as irrelevant.

I posted a link and it's text. Not of my own authorship. I posted it because it is one of many similar opinions, supported by facts, research, consensus, peer review and pertinent, qualified scientifically endorsed methods that debunk the statement that there is no research supporting the contention that transgendered individuals are not the same as cisgendered males or females.

There is clear evidence of discrete, consistant, demonstrable differences of a concrete physiologic nature between cisgendered males and females and transgendered individuals in numerous instances of many disparate lines of research.

Do you read the Google search results for "transgendered brain differences" and find this evidence absent in your world?

Then I posted another link, which I also did not author, regarding the expert presented which debunks his authority and flatly contradicts his contentions with numerous links to current day peer reviewed reseach.

Now that you know this evidence exists, you will be lying if you continue to assert it does not exist. Your only hope of salvaging your argument is to adequately refute it.
Go ahead. I'll wait.
Your ad hominem is noted as irrelevant. br br I p... (show quote)



You are discussing the K Syndrome, but so far have not seen any articles that indicate that a large percentage of transgenders have K Syndrome nor can I find any information indicating that a large number of K Syndrome believe they are women in men's bodies. Can you provide some information that Bruce Jenner and a number of other famous transgenders have the syndrome? It would be interesting. The article about the man with K Syndrome never said he was transgender or thought he was really a woman. The anomalies he had would certainly not make him the great athlete Bruce Jenner was, nor would it make for someone who could win a transgender beauty competition.

Reply
Apr 18, 2016 16:55:51   #
buffalo Loc: Texas
 
Singularity wrote:
. Bulshit, bulshit, bullshit...............................................................................................
Despite his authoritative sounding title at a respected medical institution, Dr McHugh’s opinions do not represent the views of the mainstream medical establishment, rather they are the erroneous, bigoted beliefs of a scientist who appears far too invested in his own antiquated, disproven theories and his anti-LGBT political position than the current state of medical affairs.

Dr McHugh’s piece concludes with a firm assertion that trans people are nothing but mentally disturbed individuals:"

The "disproven" theories of Dr McHughs you spoke of.

Reply
Check out topic: border illegals who got away
Apr 18, 2016 17:25:50   #
Singularity
 
buffalo wrote:
Singularity wrote:
. Bulshit, bulshit, bullshit...............................................................................................
Despite his authoritative sounding title at a respected medical institution, Dr McHugh’s opinions do not represent the views of the mainstream medical establishment, rather they are the erroneous, bigoted beliefs of a scientist who appears far too invested in his own antiquated, disproven theories and his anti-LGBT political position than the current state of medical affairs.

Dr McHugh’s piece concludes with a firm assertion that trans people are nothing but mentally disturbed individuals:"

The "disproven" theories of Dr McHughs you spoke of.
Singularity wrote: br . Bulshit, bulshit, bullshit... (show quote)


One who refuses to eat wholesome food deserves to starve. The information you refuse to comment on has been presented with references and annotations to the corresponding research. This ain't Sunday School spoon feeding.

And please stop changing my posts and attributing the changes as quotes. That is dishonest.

Reply
Apr 18, 2016 17:28:14   #
northernlights
 
no propaganda please wrote:
I am posting this article for educational purposes. However, nowhere in this article or any others was there any indication that all or even most of the men who have sex change surgery or who think they are women exhibit these symptoms so it is still apparent that most of those with gender dysphoria have a mental problem not a physical one. For those who have the syndrome it does not seem to be the case that they believe they are female in a male body. Perhaps the two are not usually part of the same package.



(The Gender Centre advise that this article may not be current and as such certain content, including but not limited to persons, contact details and dates may not apply. Where legal authority or medical related matters are cited, responsibility lies with the reader to obtain the most current relevant legal authority and/or medical publication.)
Klinefelter's Syndrome
The Trials, the Tribulations, the Frustrations

by David Brager
Article appeared in Polare magazine: May 1999 Last Update: October 2013 Last Reviewed: September 2015

The job usually took me eight hours a night, sometimes longer. The first night after the [testosterone] shots began it took me three and half hours.

My father kept saying that these would be the best years of my life. The years of junior and senior high were going to be the best that life could be. Such concepts give Stephen King the power to inhabit the dreams of cheerleaders everywhere, and for me, not much better, for I was fat. Had I simply been fat, it would have been tolerable. But I went beyond fat. I had breasts, and everyone I knew seemed to know it. Everyone, that is, except the doctors I went to see.

Year after year, from when I was twelve until I was nineteen, every doctor said the same thing, "You're Fat. Go on a diet." I could almost read the minds of each one as I walked in their office for the first time. "Hello Tubby", was written on every scowl and grimace. And year after year, the chants at school of "You need a bra" took me lower and lower down the path of self-defeat.

It was a long first year in junior college, and now I was going to see a new doctor. Here we go again. The doctor looked at me with a concentrated expression, "You've got breasts" were his first words. I shall never forget his next line. "Those are symptoms". Over the course of the next hour, he called my mom and got permission to have a rare and costly test done. He then ordered that they do karyotype (chromosome count) on me, as well as a hormone level test and a sperm count. The test took a week, and the conclusion was not obesity. It was something totally alien to me, and apparently to all the other doctors I had seen.
What is Klinefelter's Syndrome?

In the "perfect" human genetic body, there are twenty-three pairs of chromosomes in the nuclei of every gene. However, some people have extra chromosomes that cause frightening and staggering changes to them, which are most noticeable at birth. Down syndrome is probably the most famous. But in Klinefelter's Syndrome, a boy is born with male effects and female defects. What I mean, is that with a child before puberty you would never know that a Klinefelter's Syndrome boy was any different than a "real boy". That is, until puberty.

In the course of puberty, a lot of changes happen to boys. They get muscular, grow body hair, their voice deepens, their emotions go crazy, they get more aggressive, and their genitals mature. In the course of my puberty, I got breasts and fat, had no body hair, had a high voice, stayed fairly calm, and my genitals stayed as minimally hairless and small as they ever had been.

Here is the best description I have heard on what happened to me at puberty. A Klinefelter's Syndrome body matures to a female environment. It begins producing oestrogen, and it begins saving up energy (in fat) which the body will then flush out of the system at menstruation. However, since I did not have the plumbing for a menstruation, the stored energy (fat) went nowhere (or everywhere in my system). In 7th grade, I weighed 120 pounds. Then, I began this mutated form of puberty, I gained 30 pounds every year. The 120 became 150 (8th grade) then 180 (9th), 210 (10th), 240 (11th), 270 (12th), 300 (College Freshman), and then I found a doctor who diagnosed me. But now, I must share the most staggering fact of all.
Klinefelter's Syndrome is common!

It is so common that it is found in 1 out of 500 births. But if it's so common, why do so few doctors and teachers know about it? I don't know, but this page sets the course to make people more aware of the problem.
What's the big deal? It's only breasts and fat, right?

The major problem faced by me, and every other Klinefelter's Syndrome victim, is that maturity and learning go from normal to very, very slow after puberty kicks into action. It takes energy to learn, and I didn't have any. My grades throughout Elementary School were average, and in many cases above average. But as my body began to get pumped full of oestrogen, and my muscles weakened due to a lack of Testosterone, I became lethargic and weak.

I could not keep up physically, nor could I keep up intellectually. In some things, like computers, I worked well, for I could sit in one place and learn. If I had to move around, go visit the library, do research, exercise, or make any effort at all, I was muted by a weakness that was always labelled as fat and lazy. The doctors apparently never needed to look further, for it was just easier to assume that they knew what they were doing. Show me some proof that a hormone makes a difference. After the discovery of my extra chromosome, I went to Seattle to see a leader in the field of genetic dysfunction. It was an even luckier day when it turned out he was on staff at a U.S. Department of Social and Health Services hospital in Seattle.

Dr. Alvin Paulson (now retired), who was assisted by Dr. Alvin Matsumoto (who was at the University of Washington Medical School, and is currently listed as on staff with Virginia Mason Hospital in Seattle), began me on my lifetime of hormone therapy. With them, I began a shot of testosterone every fourteen days. And from the very first day, things began to happen.

I came back from Seattle to my regular life. I had a job as a weekend night custodian at a restaurant. The job usually took me eight hours a night, sometimes longer. The first night I worked, after the shots began, it took me three and half hours. And that is how long it took every week thereafter. I actually had time to relax and do a good job instead of having to slave and do a below average job, for something was different. I had energy like I had never had before.

My lack of self-esteem was the last thing to begin changing, and so began what would turn into eighteen months of therapy with a social worker. It ended with me walking taller, and feeling a bit more intolerant towards the bullies. No one could tell me I wasn't good enough now. I just needed to prove it to the only person that needed to know: Me!
Know Yourself, Love Yourself, Change Yourself:

I began to find significant changes in myself. I was later told that these changes happen to others at puberty, but I was happy to have an opportunity to go through it all. It began with a quest for discovery. I made a list of everything I thought I ever wanted to do, but hadn't done. This included many things that still haven't done, like skydiving, but along with others, like getting some of my writing published. I still upgrade the list from time to time.

Once I began to see things that I felt I was proficient enough to learn, I gorged myself in knowledge. My parents had a one-hour photo machine in their real estate appraisal business for which I worked and I dabbled in photography. I also dipped into fireworks, hypnosis, journalistic writing and poetry. But in the end, like the friend that never leaves, I found myself in computers. Through the actions of myself, and the encouraging words of others, I gained confidence, which helped my self-esteem: jack-of-all-trades, but master in six.

I am still working to get a Pyrotechnicians' License. It interests me mostly in being able to set off the fireworks even after they got outlawed, and then to get paid as well. But I am well read in explosives, though I hardly recommend anyone to go beyond knowledge these days. Still, it is a challenge to simply make gunpowder from scratch that doesn't fizzle.
My Grades and My Studies:

A big problem with my mind is that it seems to have a singular focal point. I can only concentrate on one problem at a time, though the complexity of the problem can be immense. But if I am writing a document, such as I am at this moment, I have also the focus to ignore anything that is off topic, for I think in tangent logic. If something else gets my interest, it takes a lot of effort to return to the initial task and complete it, for my interest and curiosity has shifted elsewhere. To put it in better words, a friend once said that I speak in parenthesis.

This is a major problem with the way classes exist in most schools. You take five classes, and you get fifteen hours a week to variety to keep on track. I just cannot do it. On the other hand, when a class presents itself to five days of eight hours a day and then a test on Saturday, I excel.

Looking back, my grades in Junior High and Senior High reflect slowness. In fact, I never used drugs in either school (I discovered Pot in College), but my G.P.A. went 2.0, 1.9, 1.8, 1.7 and then I had my last semester, which had my one and only "A" in High School and that was from a computer class.

College was a bit easier for a time when they allowed Z's. If you got a Z, it didn't count against you like an F did. So, being logical, I figured that by mind-term, if I didn't have an A, B, or C, I would withdraw from the class, and it wouldn't hurt me. This, combined with a computer error in my favour, which the Junior college said they could or would not fix, and so I should just shut up and accept it (a three credit hour "A" was recorded as a fifteen credit hour "A". resulting in sixty credit points). I turned my 1.6 G.P.A. into a 2.83 G.P.A., and allowed me to be accepted by Washington State University.

Maturity is built not on age, but on experience and responsibility. When I went to W.S.U., I had achieved not much of either. I could not play the petty game with grades as I did in junior college, and I discovered something even more difficult. The school was built on a mountain top, and I was in no condition to climb that many steps. I learned a lot at W.S.U., but not by going to classes. I learned a lot about people. I learned a lot about strata of societies. I learned a lot about the importance of others in my life, as well as the importance of my time alone. It was a much needed break from living at home, and I enjoyed my year away, but I still had a lot to learn about life and responsibility.

The next year, I returned home to work for the family computer business, and then enter appraising real estate.

In late 1984, my parents bought a house, and I moved into it. I began learning about responsibilities, but at times, I just could not handle it. I basically learned to pay people to help me for I could not cope with the awesome responsibilities that living alone required. My maturity levels continued to increase slowly, but they took an incredible leap in 1987, when I met the first woman who ever was interested in me.

I had been shopping for a mate with children. The sperm count that was taken all those years ago had come up empty. Not even one sperm, dead or alive, was found in the sample. So it became clear that the easiest way to get children, was to find some that already existed.

Jennifer had met me once before, and as I had bombarded her with a bunch of questions, she put me down as a pest. But when I learned that her mother was in hospital, I took her mom some books on tape to listen while there and she called her daughter to come by "now!" with a tape recorder. Jen's look on her face wasn't good when she came through the door, but once we started talking, we never stopped. We've been married seven years now, having pulled her through hell, and she's still a special gal.
So what's the point?

I have written this article to express the life I have lived, and what has happened to me, in a nutshell, from puberty to affinity. The key to this article is if you see someone with any of the following symptoms, you may want to see them get to a doctor that will check them for Klinefelter's Syndrome and then take care to see that their dosages are well monitored.
The Symptoms

After puberty: Arm span exceeds height by more than an inch; No or very little body hair and no facial hair; High voice; Minimal muscle growth in arms/legs; Weak or no energy; Small testicles; Breast Tissue (not just fat, but actually firm breasts); Low Testosterone level; High oestrogen level; Karyotype reveals XXY sex chromosomes.
What other Klinefelter's victims have done

One time on Prodigy, I asked around for Klinefelter's Syndrome'ers and found about ten. Half of these had said that they had sex change operations. One of the men left said he had had no shots or therapy ever and is in his fifties. Most Klinefelter's Syndrome people have had sex with someone of their same gender during puberty. Studies I have seen shown that 80 percent of all boys experience something along this line, but only 10 percent of the population appears to be "gay". There does not appear to be any defined indication if any of the 20 percent that did not have a gay experience ended up gay.

All Klinefelter's Syndrome people appear to get lethargic after puberty, and have a difficult time learning, but all of them said computers were a snap, or something of interest. The guy who said he was in his fifties, also mentioned that his parents were doctors, his siblings were doctors, and he is the only one that is committed just to computers, but did not do well in school, for he couldn't concentrate that well.
So is that all?

Well, actually, this is the start. From here, we need to find out what can be done for the others to recognise that Klinefelter's Syndrome people are not given an easy hand, and that they may need more learning opportunities or boosts. It may take a little longer to get anywhere, but with therapy and a little help, the work should be worth it.

Information of Klinefelter Syndrome

Klinefelter Syndrome is probably the most common chromosomal variation found in humans. In random surveys, it is found to appear about 1 in every 500 to one in every 1,000 live born males. Since the largest percentage of these men would have never been diagnosed otherwise, it shows that in many cases affected individuals lead healthy, normal lives with no particular medical or social questions. Klinefelter Syndrome is diagnosed through a karyotype; a chromosome analysis usually done on a blood sample.

Klinefelter Syndrome is caused by a chromosome variation involving the sex chromosomes. While Dr. Harry Klinefelter accurately described this condition in 1942, it was not until 1956 that other researchers reported that many boys with this description had 47 chromosomes in each cell of their bodies instead of the usual number of 46. This extra sex (X) chromosome causes the distinctive make-up of these boys. All men have one X chromosome and one Y chromosome, but sometimes a variation will result in a male with an extra X. This is Klinefelter Syndrome and is often written as 47XXY.
Common Characteristics

The most common conditions that males with Klinefelter Syndrome may have are sterility, breast development, incomplete masculine body build, and social and/or school learning problems. The most common characteristic of men with Klinefelter Syndrome is sterility.

Frequently, adolescent boys with Klinefelter Syndrome may undergo some breast tissue development. In some cases, this may necessitate surgical removal of the breast tissue.

Although most boys with Klinefelter Syndrome are tall (the average is 6ft½in.), they may not be particularly athletic or coordinated. The penis is usually of average length, although the testes are small. There may be a decreased growth of facial hair. Studies indicate an increased risk of speech and language problems which contribute to social and/or school learning problems. Boys with Klinefelter Syndrome may be more immature, shy and dependent than their brothers and other boys their age. They may be somewhat passive and apathetic; they may lack initiative, be very sensitive, and have a fragile self-esteem.
Treatment

The most common form of treatment involves administering Depo-Testosterone, a synthetic form of testosterone, by injection once a month. The dose gradually needs to be increased and given more frequently as the boys get older.

Polare Magazine is published quarterly in Australia by The Gender Centre Inc. which is funded by the Department of Family & Community Services under the S.A.A.P. program and supported by the N.S.W. Health Department through the AIDS and Infectious Diseases Branch. Polare provides a forum for discussion and debate on gender issues. Unsolicited contributions are welcome, the editor reserves the right to edit such contributions without notification. Any submission which appears in Polare may be published on our internet site. Opinions expressed in this publication do not necessarily reflect those of the Editor, The Gender Centre Inc., the Department of Family & Community Services or the N.S.W. Department of Health.

The Gender Centre is committed to developing and providing services and activities, which enhance the ability of people with gender issues to make informed choices. We offer a wide range of services to people with gender issues, their partners, family members and friends in New South Wales. We are an accommodation service and also act as an education, support, training and referral resource centre to other organisations and service providers. The Gender Centre is committed to educating the public and service providers about the needs of people with gender issues. We specifically aim to provide a high quality service, which acknowledges human rights and ensures respect and confidentiality.
Youth Support Group
14 to 29 years?

All gender questioning trans and gender-queer young people are welcome to participate in this eight week support group. The next group will commence when we have eight people interested in participating.

For more information, call;

(02) 9569 2366
(The Gender Centre advise that this article may not be current and as such certain content, including but not limited to persons, contact details and dates may not apply. Where legal authority or medical related matters are cited, responsibility lies with the reader to obtain the most current relevant legal authority and/or medical publication.)
Klinefelter's Syndrome
The Trials, the Tribulations, the Frustrations

by David Brager
Article appeared in Polare magazine: May 1999 Last Update: October 2013 Last Reviewed: September 2015

The job usually took me eight hours a night, sometimes longer. The first night after the [testosterone] shots began it took me three and half hours.

Polare Magazine is published quarterly in Australia by The Gender Centre Inc. which is funded by the Department of Family & Community Services under the S.A.A.P. program and supported by the N.S.W. Health Department through the AIDS and Infectious Diseases Branch. Polare provides a forum for discussion and debate on gender issues. Unsolicited contributions are welcome, the editor reserves the right to edit such contributions without notification. Any submission which appears in Polare may be published on our internet site. Opinions expressed in this publication do not necessarily reflect those of the Editor, The Gender Centre Inc., the Department of Family & Community Services or the N.S.W. Department of Health.

The Gender Centre is committed to developing and providing services and activities, which enhance the ability of people with gender issues to make informed choices. We offer a wide range of services to people with gender issues, their partners, family members and friends in New South Wales. We are an accommodation service and also act as an education, support, training and referral resource centre to other organisations and service providers. The Gender Centre is committed to educating the public and service providers about the needs of people with gender issues. We specifically aim to provide a high quality service, which acknowledges human rights and ensures respect and confidentiality.
Youth Support Group
14 to 29 years?

All gender questioning trans and gender-queer young people are welcome to participate in this eight week support group. The next group will commence when we have eight people interested in participating.

For more information, call;

(02) 9569 2366
I am posting this article for educational purposes... (show quote)





Please just attach the link

Reply
Apr 18, 2016 17:30:02   #
Architect1776 Loc: Williamsport
 
buffalo wrote:
Singularity wrote:
. Bulshit, bulshit, bullshit...............................................................................................
Despite his authoritative sounding title at a respected medical institution, Dr McHugh’s opinions do not represent the views of the mainstream medical establishment, rather they are the erroneous, bigoted beliefs of a scientist who appears far too invested in his own antiquated, disproven theories and his anti-LGBT political position than the current state of medical affairs.

Dr McHugh’s piece concludes with a firm assertion that trans people are nothing but mentally disturbed individuals:"

The "disproven" theories of Dr McHughs you spoke of.
Singularity wrote: br . Bulshit, bulshit, bullshit... (show quote)


Remember "mainstream medical" depend on grants that come from gov't. or leftist groups with an agenda.

Reply
Apr 18, 2016 17:36:58   #
Singularity
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Remember "mainstream medical" depend on grants that come from gov't. or leftist groups with an agenda.


Irrelevant bullshit.

I am weary of your recalcitrance.

Reply
Check out topic: Keep Poking the Bear
Apr 19, 2016 06:12:26   #
4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory
 
The only way to fix this !

Just have restrooms for transgender women and one for transgender men thus problem solved !

All others use the restrooms that fits their geniality !

Reply
Apr 19, 2016 07:39:16   #
Oakisland4U
 
The Liberals of this USA want female or male in the bathrooms of opposite sex.
Let NC and Miss. stand up for the freedom .

Reply
Apr 19, 2016 07:46:32   #
4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory
 
Oakisland4U wrote:
The Liberals of this USA want female or male in the bathrooms of opposite sex.
Let NC and Miss. stand up for the freedom .


My hat's off the the people of those states that take a stand against the liberal loony mine set that anything goes !

Reply
Apr 19, 2016 08:12:04   #
no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun
 
4430 wrote:
The only way to fix this !

Just have restrooms for transgender women and one for transgender men thus problem solved !

All others use the restrooms that fits their geniality !


Since it is not a requirement that they have had sex change surgery or even hormones, as long as they have started the change, one bathroom for both should work. Cross dressing presenting yourself as the opposite sex, is part of the required change, so that is all that needs to be done for them to fit the requirement. Even Bruce Jenner, according to his own statements, still has a penis and testicles.

Reply
Apr 19, 2016 08:44:58   #
crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
 
crazylibertarian wrote:
Once more I issue my challenge to anyone who takes such issue with North carolina & Mississippi over their laws requiring people to use the public bathrooms of their birth gender.

Please note that my e-mail goes to several groups that have progressives among their memberships and I posted the message on One Political Plaza specifically mentioning two progessives in the thread. Not one has responded. I do not anticipate any. It sort of reminds me of the laws that Congress would pass and then exempt themselves from them.

(I did some editing this time but the message of the post is the same.)

Bruce Springsteen, Sharon Stone and Ringo Starr are planning to cancel appearances & work in North Carolina & Mississippi over the the laws limiting people to bathrooms of their birth gender.

To demonstrate their sincerity, I think it's only fair for Springsteen, Stone & Starr and all others who object to the laws to have their mothers, wives, sisters or daughters go to a bathroom or a gym with males who identify as females and do their excretory functions or take their showers in adjacent stalls.
Once more I issue my challenge to anyone who takes... (show quote)





:XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o :XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o :XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o :XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o :XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o :XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o :XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o :XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o

Everyone, please note, that despite their distractive admonitions to lecture us on the true nature of homosexuality, transgenderism, etc., not one, not CoolBreeze, jelun, lpnmajor nor Singularity, etc. has accepted my challenge to commit to having any important female members of their families go to a public bathroom or gym and use the stall next to a transgendered female to shower or perform their excretory functions.

Reply
Apr 19, 2016 08:49:47   #
Kazudy
 
Crazy like a fox,I hope you don't mind. I borrowed your article and posted it on my Facebook page.

Reply
Apr 19, 2016 09:04:14   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
crazylibertarian wrote:
:XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o :XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o :XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o :XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o :XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o :XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o :XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o :XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o

Everyone, please note, that despite their distractive admonitions to lecture us on the true nature of homosexuality, transgenderism, etc., not one, not CoolBreeze, jelun, lpnmajor nor Singularity, etc. has accepted my challenge to commit to having any important female members of their families go to a public bathroom or gym and use the stall next to a transgendered female to shower or perform their excretory functions.
:XD: :-o :D :? :-( :-o :XD: :-o :D :? ... (show quote)


Well Crazy, its really not all that appealing now is it?? I would not take you up on the challenge that's for sure!! :wink:

This issue can and has been debated ad finum and the results are the same..No one is going to convince the other of their feelings about it at all..It is a strongly felt commitment to personal behavior and or acceptance and unfortunately, people just want things this personal kept out of their lives..They abhor it and find exception of it for religious reasons or moral conviction..Two of the strongest emotional ties we have unto our self and not going to be changed in thought..Ce la vie~~~ :thumbup:

Reply
Apr 19, 2016 09:12:40   #
4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory
 
lindajoy wrote:
They abhor it and find exception of it for religious reasons or moral conviction..Two of the strongest emotional ties we have unto our self and not going to be changed in thought..Ce la vie~~~ :thumbup:


Your spot on Linda !

We just can not allow anyone to have any thoughts of religious reasons or moral conviction !

They demand that everyone has to think exactly like them or else they will have a come apart and be traumatized for life !

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