read this and ask yourself, how stupid do you look right now? trying to prove the un-provable, you believe there is no god. great, now shut up and listen, your belief is that religion is evil. you are saying that which gives billions hope for a prosperous future is evil, how ignorant can you be? have you studied the concept of religion and human nature like I have? No, you think you know everything, you know almost nothing of life, you don't even know of the concept of reality, do you know why religion exists? why is the mind fascinated with the idea of a higher being? why would nature, with all it's glory, create something that destroys it and tries to bend it? you do not have the ability to try to understand all sides of the argument. study the all the holy books in the world, all the philosophers writings about life and god, then you can tell me there is no god. tell me what is real and what isn't, we are ALL inside our own heads, we only know what we observe from inside our head. what is reality? what is life? what is love? hope?
I ask you to do this, study yourself more than anything on this earth, I have, this is why I ask "what do you think?" because I want to get your mind going, study yourself, and study, and study, because that is the only thing you have to work with, reality leaves a lot to the imagination.
I leave with this, something I wrote not too long ago that involves some of what is being argued, study yourself, and tell me. what do you think?

In this moment, if I cry, nostalgia is where I may lie, for one might ask ‘do you remember then?’ and again and again I will remember in pain the joy of then, no one can truly understand what one feels of nostalgia, that is their own story, a story one tells one’s self when lonely, when sad, when feelings hurt, connections are made of memories, memories the mind hides from itself, to protect it from one’s self, we look at nostalgia in all her glory fondly, for we miss the days, and miss them, and miss them with torment, the minds feeble attempt to forget past suffering, to allow itself to look back without feeling the pain of then, connections made of rarity, rarity of happiness, happiness not in this moment, or the next, but of then, then when joy was common, when no hardship can be recalled, or much hardship, or both, hardship and joy that got one from where they were, to where they are now, the only thing that may stop them is the very thing that can be their greatest advantage, memory and remembrance of the day recalled to be filled with the joy that is absent now, in childhood, in brotherhood, in remembrance, nostalgia, whose taste is so sweet, one might forget that it is only a treat for those who need to remember how they define themselves in the moment for memory of you has been made, is being made, and will not cease to be made until you die your second death, the death of memory, the first death is but an earthly death, a death of alleged peace and bliss for weary travelers of life who lay to rest their heads, their journey at an end, not the earthly death, the second death, the death of dreams, memories, and the very existence of yourself, will lie in the memory of others one day, the death of memory of you, it has happened to everyone, including the ancestors whose name we know, do we know? Did we know? No? You know the name but not the person? Ahh, a famous man whose name has evaded me once said “you die twice, once when you really die, and another when one says your name for the last time.” That speaks volumes of truth, but…what about the death of the memories of those who really remembered you, for you, your personality, and your attitude? If you die and make it into history, sustainable history that is stored and remembered in the books they may write of you, then there is a third death, a death beyond both, and truly emotional death that should be cause for more grief than the original death, but no one is there to recognize the true sadness, the death of the memories people had, of simply meeting you, saying Hi for the first time, the time you almost set fire to the neighborhood, the joy you had, the hate you had, the impressions people had of you In THEIR minds and THEIR memories of you, when people knew you and SAW you, when you were in life, or the very actions causing your death if you were a martyr, the lives you had effected due to your actions. The third death is a death of nostalgia, when someone fondly remembers you for the last time, whenever, wherever it may be, in that moment is when you truly die, history books or not that is ones true death, nostalgia is the most powerful feeling one can feel, just remember when…? There are times in my life where I may cry in passion and sorrow for the memories had and the times remembered by only a few, it is those very things that may drag one to death of pain, pain of memories, memories of joy, loss, sadness and happiness. No matter whom you are, no matter what you believe, no matter what you do, if you are mortal you will die three deaths, one of earth, one of nostalgia, and one of history/recorded existence, all will die these deaths, but you only have to worry about the first. As a man once said “death is going to be a greater adventure than life.” That is true, death could be anything, a door to judgment by a higher power, another life, eternal damnation or simply nothing…. Or simply everything, that is the journey not the destination, as for life, life ties with reality, reality leaves a lot to the imagination, the meaning of life Is directly connected to you own individual perception of reality. Have you ever looked into the reflection of you in a puddle and thought, “what if I am the reflection?” I have had many moments such as these, many that the human mind cannot conceive how to communicate the feelings of, and may they be fond, curious, saddening, happiness, dread, or terror. These are only vague words to describe infinite feelings and possibilities of the joy of life, the sadness of life, or fear in life felt when considering that question.

why would you spend your life trying to prove something that will never be proven or dis-proven? enjoy life, make memories, simply live, if you wish to understand being, dwell on life, study it, and study, and study. you will never understand, nor will I, that is the joy, not knowing, once you understand that, you will feel as I feel

All religion, is from Satan, to deceive man. The worship of God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit is not a religion. It is a relationship between God, the Creator and man. It does not matter, what religion you are in. It is of Satan. Has a different Jesus and only leads to hell. The writers of the Bible called these names of false religions out by name. If you are in the Mormon, Jeh. Witness, Islam, Catholic etc. Get out. Get a KJV and study it. Don't bother, with these new bibles. They have to be changed so much , before they can be copyrighted. That would disqualify them as the word of God. If it has other books added, to it beside the 66 in the KJV, it is not a word of God's book. It has become a counterfeit book. So, let the atheist call themselves a religion. That is just another, false religion added to the hundreds, that are already out there.

By the looks of things, the only person here that is being stupid is the person telling others that they are stupid for disagreeing with your viewpoint. This forum is supposed to be about intelligent discussion. Not a medium to attack others just because they have a different point of view. I will agree that it is indeed pointless to try to either prove or disprove that which is impossible to prove or disprove. You claim to have "studied" this subject in-depth. If that is so, then why is it that you can not properly define the purpose of religion?? The purpose of religion throughout history has been to attempt to explain that which it not understood. As mans knowledge of the world around him evolves, so too have his religious beliefs. That is precisely the reason that there are so many "dead" religions which are now called mythologies. Some that are still practiced are referred to as either cults or pagan. The only thing that differentiates them is the number of followers. Once a religion looses it's followers, it gets "downgraded" to either cult, or mythical status. The main problem with religion is that, unlike science, it does not change or adapt over time as new information and knowledge is learned. Religion is an invention of man not god. Personally, I don't believe in religion, but I do believe in god. I have my own reasons for my beliefs, but I'm not going to try and shove them down anyone's throat no matter how strongly I feel about them. It is because of religious people who go around pushing their religion on others that Atheists are becoming "militant" as some call them and I don't blame them. Especially when they try to make laws that are quite obviously based solely upon religious belief (such as the definition of marriage). Far more death and destruction has been caused by religion throughout history than any good it's done. I'm a historian so I challenge you to find any religion in history that hasn't either killed or destroyed in the name of their religion (excluding new modern religions which if given the chance, would do so as well).

To African atheist: thank you for your thoughts, I am christian, I seek the answers that are not in biblical text, and you have pointed me towards a new line of thought. I agree there is more than one death, I have memories of my parents, good bad and indifferent, I was with both of them when they left this world, holding my mothers hand as she took her last breath,feeling her pulse as her heart beat its last beat, it was a very troublesome time for me, I still anguish from her loss, but I remember her and my father I remember their teachings to me, I have shared those teachings in morality, love and faith with my children and now they share them with their children, so the circle of life continues. And those memories and teachings keep their souls alive in me and so far two more generations.shouldn't the things we learn, and pass down be considered as memories to keep them alive in our hearts as well?

If anyone is "trolling" on here it's coming only from the religious posters on here (ldsuttonjr & philisophyman). None of the atheist replies have contained profanity or attacked any of the other posters on this subject, just you two. This page is supposed to be about "intellectual" discussion. So if the only reason you're making such posts is to attack those who don't think like you, feel free to leave and don't let the door hit you on the way out. There's plenty of space for your hatred & vitriol in your churches.

It's quite obvious the term "intellectual discussion" has no meaning to you. You can compare anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint to any number of villains throughout history but that won't change the fact of your ignorance. I'm not the thin skinned person here calling other people names and comparing them to some of the worlds worst murderers in history. Wag your vitriolic hateful tongue elsewhere. This forum is supposed to be about intellectual discourse, not your religiously tainted and narrow minded point of view.

Pot calling the kettle black?? I fail to see any relevance to your comparison nor your sad and pathetic attempt to marginalize anyone. It's obviously far beyond your intellectual capacity. No heat going on here. Just cooly kicking up my heels and laughing at your ineptness. I truly pity your children and the fact that you've apparently already multiplied. The world can only hope that they won't continue your line of stupidity. You speak of wisdom yet in the same sentence you speak of something you have absolutely no knowledge of speaks volumes about your supreme arrogance. Please continue to spew your stupidity and further prove my point about it. I'm not going anywhere either bucco so lets see how much more brain dead vitriol you can come up with.