What is a Troll?
Jun 30, 2015 22:52:28 #
Doc110 wrote:
Quite honestly Artemis, I don't believe that I'm that presumptuous, that I could speak for Jesus Christ on this matter, for why he did not write any written books. He did have a untimely crucifixion and death.
But Jesus foretold accurately, and what was prophesied in the Old Testament and was completed in the fulfillment of the Resurrection.
The miracles, his 4 Gospel message's and messages in, "Acts of the Apostles," is one the greatest story told to mankind that has lasted almost 2,000 years. After his resurrection. The writing alone and message is incredible.
Would you like to understand the bible in a totally different way of understanding ? Explanations of Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic and Latin in a way that could alter your perception about the Bible the Old and the New Testaments ?
I'm not converting you, I said Listen to this compelling biblical orator business and scientist. Just listen to Genesis 26 tapes. It could give you some biblical incite and new knowledge. Try one tape the first seven days and creation ?
Do me a favor, please listen to this biblical and historical minister. http://www.allaboutgod.com/chuck-missler.htm
http://www.firefighters.org/html/library.cfm
Artemis, Hundreds, and possibly thousands saw, Jesus Christ they touched him, ate with him and he gave his message to all his disciples his Apostles to preach to the ends of the earth.
As to the reason why Jesus did-not record or write anything down. The only thing I can say was that he was focused on salvation and his teaching ministry.
Are you having second thoughts about your question ? Having any doubts about his 650 plus, biblical prophetic references: Christ's birth, life and death of the Messiah ?
1. Yes I have some doubts, not doubts of divinity, doubts of the "written" word and the interpretation's of each particular author. I'm not sure specifically or very clear as to what your asking or telling me here, Artemis?
I'm going to take a chance, and might be off the mark on this one.
Old or New Testament or both ? The Bible - Catholic 73 books ? or the Protestant 66 Books ?
It has been reported that at the council of Nicaea the canonical book list was inclusive. But on another website I see that 367 AD, St. Athanasius came up with a list of 73 books for the Bible that he believed to be divinely inspired.
This list was finally approved by Pope Damasus I, in 382 AD, and was formally approved by the Church Council of Rome in that same year.
Later Councils at Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage (397 AD) ratified this list of 73 books.
In 405 AD, Pope Innocent I wrote a letter to the Bishop of Toulouse reaffirming this canon of 73 books.
In 419 AD, the Council of Carthage reaffirmed this list, which Pope Boniface agreed to.
The Council of Trent, in 1546, in response to the Protestant Reformation removing 7 books from the canon (canon is a Greek word meaning standard), reaffirmed the original St. Athanasius list of 73 books.
So what happened? How come the King James Bible only has 66 books? Well, Martin Luther didnt like 7 books of the Old Testament that disagreed with his personal view of theology, so he threw them out of his bible in the 16th Century.
His reasoning was that the Jewish Council of Jamnia in 90 AD didnt think they were canonical, so he didnt either.
The 300 B.C.E. Septuagint, includes the disputed 7 books that Protestants do not recognize as scriptural. Hummmm interesting don't you agree ?
2. People are only human and with flaws and to their belief gets blended with the word of Jesus. I agree with you there humans are flawed even Popes, they are only human.
Again, Artemis, I'm not sure specifically or very clear as to what your asking or telling me here, ?
3. personally I enjoy conversations like this because it pushes me to research something I probably never would have. As I did after your post and found some interesting information.
Apparently I am not the only one to be skeptical of some of the authors who some being an apostle. Again, Artemis, I'm not sure specifically or very clear as to what your asking or telling me here, ?
Here is a more accurate reason to the for the The Bible - Catholic 73 books and or the Protestant 66 Books ?
It was interesting to find out that the over viewers - the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant churches who made the approval to what was recognized to be included in the Bible.
This is what I found out:
Both the Roman Catholic and Protestant Bibles have thirty-nine books in the Old Testament and twenty-seven in the New.
The difference is that a Roman Catholic Bible accepted has an additional eleven books inserted between the Testaments. Where did these books come from?
But there was another group of books that are accepted by the Roman Catholic Church but rejected by Protestants.
These books originated in a canon in Alexandria in Egypt.
It was in this city in 250 B.C. that the Old Testament was translated into Greek and called the Septuagint, meaning seventy.
The 300 250 B.C.E. Greek Septuagint, includes the disputed 7 books that Protestants do not recognize as scriptural.
Hummmm interesting don't you agree ? When you see all the Apocrypha books 'Deuterocanonical' category and The apocryphal New Testament "Letter of Paul to the Laodiceans." At some time there needs to be an end and additions to the Holy Bible. Hence The "council of Nicaea the canonical book list was inclusive.
These books, commonly called the Apocrypha (the word means hidden), are interwoven among the books of the Old Testament. In all, there are fifteen books, eleven of which are accepted as canonical by the Roman Catholic Church.
There are many other apocryphal books, which do not fall into the 'Deuterocanonical' category, such as the many additional New Testament Gospels, and the apocalyptic book of Enoch. Check out this website source, there are a lot more Apocrypha books out there and there many Gnostic biblical texts books out there also.
With one exception, all of these books are considered 'Old Testament'.
1 Esdras, 2 Esdras, Additions to Esther,1 Macabees, 2 Macabees, Tobias, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, Epistle of Jeremiah, Susanna, Prayer of Azariah, Prayer of Manasseh, Bel and the Dragon.
Laodiceans The apocryphal New Testament 'Letter of Paul to the Laodiceans', was once incorporated in many versions of the Bible. However Laodiceans is now considered just a pastiche of other Epistles, and is omitted from contemporary Bibles.
The Lost Books of the Bible, edited by Rutherford H. Platt, Jr. [1926]. A collection of NT apocrypha and pseudepigrapha. http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/lbob/index.htm
The Biblical Antiquities of Philo, translated by M. R. James [1917] An alternative pseudepigraphal narrative of the Hebrew Bible from Genesis through 1 Samuel, written in the first century C.E. http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/bap/index.htm
The Gospel of Thomas, Reputedly the writings of the apostle 'Doubting Thomas'. This text purports to be a collection of the sayings of Jesus. Traditionally Thomas was Jesus' twin brother. This text shows strong Gnostic influence. http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm
The Didache, by Charles H. Hoole [1894]. A very early Christian apocryphal text. http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/did/index.htm
The Sibylline Oracles, tr. by Milton S. Terry [1899]. The Sibylline books were oracular Roman scrolls; these are the pseudo-Sibylline Oracles. There many similarities to early Christian writings, and they were quoted by the Church Fathers. http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/sib/index.htm
The Book of Enoch, Translated by R.H. Charles [1917]. An etext of a critical edition of the Book of Enoch. Enoch introduced such concepts as fallen Angels, the Messiah, the Resurrection, and others. http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/index.htm
The Book of Enoch the Prophet, Translated by Richard Laurence [1883]. An earlier and very influential 19th century translation of 1 Enoch. http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/bep/index.htm
The Book of Jubilees tr. by R.H. Charles [1917] A text from the 2nd century B.C.E. which covers much of the same ground as Genesis, with some interesting additional details. It may have been an intermediate form of Genesis which was incorporated into later versions.http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/jub/index.htm
Slavonic Life of Adam and Eve. http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/slanev.htm
The Books of Adam and Eve. This is the translation of the Books of Adam and Eve from the Oxford University Press Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha. http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/adamnev.htm
The Book of Jasher. http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/index.htm
Excerpts from the Gospel of Mary. This fragment, of disputed authenticity, puts the relationship between Mary Magdalen, Jesus and the Apostles in a radically different perspective than traditional beliefs. http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/marym.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/
http://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/tools/bible-basics/what-are-noncanonical-writings.aspx
More noncanonical-writings.
The First Book of Adam and Eve, The Second Book of Adam and Eve
The Book of the Secrets of Enoch, The Psalms of Solomon, The Odes of Solomon, The Letter of Aristeas, Fourth Book of Maccabees, The Story of Ahikar, The Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, Testament of Reuben, Testament of Simeon, Testament of Levi, The Testament of Judah, The Testament of Issachar, The Testament of Zebulun, The Testament of Dan, The Testament of Naphtali, The Testament Of Gad, The Testament of Asher, The Testament of Joseph, The Testament of Benjamin.
But because four of the eleven are combined with Old Testament books, the Douay Version contains only seven additional books in its table of contents. see http://vulsearch.sourceforge.net/text.html) http://www.drbo.org/lvb/
Jerome rejected the Deuterocanonical books when he was translating the Bible into Latin circa 450 CE, (see the Vulgate). This was because no Hebrew version of these texts could be found, even though they were present in the Greek Old Testament (the Septuagint).
However, they eventually were accepted by the Church, and most of them remained part of the Bible.
Protestants rejected these books during the Reformation as lacking divine authority. They either excised them completely or placed them in a third section of the Bible.
The Roman Catholic Council of Trent, on the other hand, declared in 1546 that the Deuterocanonical books were indeed divine.
(Allegedly the translation was made in seventy days utilizing seventy scholars.)
This explains why some of the earliest manuscripts of the Septuagint that exist today (dating back to the fourth century) contain these additional books.
Realizing this I do question the complete validity of "ALL" that is between the pages. Artemis do you see the controversy, from 1517 and the Protestant reformation.
Sadly this removal has been done after the reformation of 1517 by Martin Luther and a slow removal of Jewishness and Catholicism by the 2,800 different kinds of Protestant Christian denominations. There is no problem with the original Septuagint Greek bible of 73 books, thus no controversy.
Quite honestly Artemis, I don't believe that I'm that presumptuous, that I could speak for Jesus Christ on this matter, for why he did not write any written books. He did have a untimely crucifixion and death.
But Jesus foretold accurately, and what was prophesied in the Old Testament and was completed in the fulfillment of the Resurrection.
The miracles, his 4 Gospel message's and messages in, "Acts of the Apostles," is one the greatest story told to mankind that has lasted almost 2,000 years. After his resurrection. The writing alone and message is incredible.
Would you like to understand the bible in a totally different way of understanding ? Explanations of Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic and Latin in a way that could alter your perception about the Bible the Old and the New Testaments ?
I'm not converting you, I said Listen to this compelling biblical orator business and scientist. Just listen to Genesis 26 tapes. It could give you some biblical incite and new knowledge. Try one tape the first seven days and creation ?
Do me a favor, please listen to this biblical and historical minister. http://www.allaboutgod.com/chuck-missler.htm
http://www.firefighters.org/html/library.cfm
Artemis, Hundreds, and possibly thousands saw, Jesus Christ they touched him, ate with him and he gave his message to all his disciples his Apostles to preach to the ends of the earth.
As to the reason why Jesus did-not record or write anything down. The only thing I can say was that he was focused on salvation and his teaching ministry.
Are you having second thoughts about your question ? Having any doubts about his 650 plus, biblical prophetic references: Christ's birth, life and death of the Messiah ?
1. Yes I have some doubts, not doubts of divinity, doubts of the "written" word and the interpretation's of each particular author. I'm not sure specifically or very clear as to what your asking or telling me here, Artemis?
I'm going to take a chance, and might be off the mark on this one.
Old or New Testament or both ? The Bible - Catholic 73 books ? or the Protestant 66 Books ?
It has been reported that at the council of Nicaea the canonical book list was inclusive. But on another website I see that 367 AD, St. Athanasius came up with a list of 73 books for the Bible that he believed to be divinely inspired.
This list was finally approved by Pope Damasus I, in 382 AD, and was formally approved by the Church Council of Rome in that same year.
Later Councils at Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage (397 AD) ratified this list of 73 books.
In 405 AD, Pope Innocent I wrote a letter to the Bishop of Toulouse reaffirming this canon of 73 books.
In 419 AD, the Council of Carthage reaffirmed this list, which Pope Boniface agreed to.
The Council of Trent, in 1546, in response to the Protestant Reformation removing 7 books from the canon (canon is a Greek word meaning standard), reaffirmed the original St. Athanasius list of 73 books.
So what happened? How come the King James Bible only has 66 books? Well, Martin Luther didnt like 7 books of the Old Testament that disagreed with his personal view of theology, so he threw them out of his bible in the 16th Century.
His reasoning was that the Jewish Council of Jamnia in 90 AD didnt think they were canonical, so he didnt either.
The 300 B.C.E. Septuagint, includes the disputed 7 books that Protestants do not recognize as scriptural. Hummmm interesting don't you agree ?
2. People are only human and with flaws and to their belief gets blended with the word of Jesus. I agree with you there humans are flawed even Popes, they are only human.
Again, Artemis, I'm not sure specifically or very clear as to what your asking or telling me here, ?
3. personally I enjoy conversations like this because it pushes me to research something I probably never would have. As I did after your post and found some interesting information.
Apparently I am not the only one to be skeptical of some of the authors who some being an apostle. Again, Artemis, I'm not sure specifically or very clear as to what your asking or telling me here, ?
Here is a more accurate reason to the for the The Bible - Catholic 73 books and or the Protestant 66 Books ?
It was interesting to find out that the over viewers - the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant churches who made the approval to what was recognized to be included in the Bible.
This is what I found out:
Both the Roman Catholic and Protestant Bibles have thirty-nine books in the Old Testament and twenty-seven in the New.
The difference is that a Roman Catholic Bible accepted has an additional eleven books inserted between the Testaments. Where did these books come from?
But there was another group of books that are accepted by the Roman Catholic Church but rejected by Protestants.
These books originated in a canon in Alexandria in Egypt.
It was in this city in 250 B.C. that the Old Testament was translated into Greek and called the Septuagint, meaning seventy.
The 300 250 B.C.E. Greek Septuagint, includes the disputed 7 books that Protestants do not recognize as scriptural.
Hummmm interesting don't you agree ? When you see all the Apocrypha books 'Deuterocanonical' category and The apocryphal New Testament "Letter of Paul to the Laodiceans." At some time there needs to be an end and additions to the Holy Bible. Hence The "council of Nicaea the canonical book list was inclusive.
These books, commonly called the Apocrypha (the word means hidden), are interwoven among the books of the Old Testament. In all, there are fifteen books, eleven of which are accepted as canonical by the Roman Catholic Church.
There are many other apocryphal books, which do not fall into the 'Deuterocanonical' category, such as the many additional New Testament Gospels, and the apocalyptic book of Enoch. Check out this website source, there are a lot more Apocrypha books out there and there many Gnostic biblical texts books out there also.
With one exception, all of these books are considered 'Old Testament'.
1 Esdras, 2 Esdras, Additions to Esther,1 Macabees, 2 Macabees, Tobias, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, Epistle of Jeremiah, Susanna, Prayer of Azariah, Prayer of Manasseh, Bel and the Dragon.
Laodiceans The apocryphal New Testament 'Letter of Paul to the Laodiceans', was once incorporated in many versions of the Bible. However Laodiceans is now considered just a pastiche of other Epistles, and is omitted from contemporary Bibles.
The Lost Books of the Bible, edited by Rutherford H. Platt, Jr. [1926]. A collection of NT apocrypha and pseudepigrapha. http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/lbob/index.htm
The Biblical Antiquities of Philo, translated by M. R. James [1917] An alternative pseudepigraphal narrative of the Hebrew Bible from Genesis through 1 Samuel, written in the first century C.E. http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/bap/index.htm
The Gospel of Thomas, Reputedly the writings of the apostle 'Doubting Thomas'. This text purports to be a collection of the sayings of Jesus. Traditionally Thomas was Jesus' twin brother. This text shows strong Gnostic influence. http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm
The Didache, by Charles H. Hoole [1894]. A very early Christian apocryphal text. http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/did/index.htm
The Sibylline Oracles, tr. by Milton S. Terry [1899]. The Sibylline books were oracular Roman scrolls; these are the pseudo-Sibylline Oracles. There many similarities to early Christian writings, and they were quoted by the Church Fathers. http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/sib/index.htm
The Book of Enoch, Translated by R.H. Charles [1917]. An etext of a critical edition of the Book of Enoch. Enoch introduced such concepts as fallen Angels, the Messiah, the Resurrection, and others. http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/index.htm
The Book of Enoch the Prophet, Translated by Richard Laurence [1883]. An earlier and very influential 19th century translation of 1 Enoch. http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/bep/index.htm
The Book of Jubilees tr. by R.H. Charles [1917] A text from the 2nd century B.C.E. which covers much of the same ground as Genesis, with some interesting additional details. It may have been an intermediate form of Genesis which was incorporated into later versions.http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/jub/index.htm
Slavonic Life of Adam and Eve. http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/slanev.htm
The Books of Adam and Eve. This is the translation of the Books of Adam and Eve from the Oxford University Press Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha. http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/adamnev.htm
The Book of Jasher. http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/index.htm
Excerpts from the Gospel of Mary. This fragment, of disputed authenticity, puts the relationship between Mary Magdalen, Jesus and the Apostles in a radically different perspective than traditional beliefs. http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/marym.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/
http://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/tools/bible-basics/what-are-noncanonical-writings.aspx
More noncanonical-writings.
The First Book of Adam and Eve, The Second Book of Adam and Eve
The Book of the Secrets of Enoch, The Psalms of Solomon, The Odes of Solomon, The Letter of Aristeas, Fourth Book of Maccabees, The Story of Ahikar, The Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, Testament of Reuben, Testament of Simeon, Testament of Levi, The Testament of Judah, The Testament of Issachar, The Testament of Zebulun, The Testament of Dan, The Testament of Naphtali, The Testament Of Gad, The Testament of Asher, The Testament of Joseph, The Testament of Benjamin.
But because four of the eleven are combined with Old Testament books, the Douay Version contains only seven additional books in its table of contents. see http://vulsearch.sourceforge.net/text.html) http://www.drbo.org/lvb/
Jerome rejected the Deuterocanonical books when he was translating the Bible into Latin circa 450 CE, (see the Vulgate). This was because no Hebrew version of these texts could be found, even though they were present in the Greek Old Testament (the Septuagint).
However, they eventually were accepted by the Church, and most of them remained part of the Bible.
Protestants rejected these books during the Reformation as lacking divine authority. They either excised them completely or placed them in a third section of the Bible.
The Roman Catholic Council of Trent, on the other hand, declared in 1546 that the Deuterocanonical books were indeed divine.
(Allegedly the translation was made in seventy days utilizing seventy scholars.)
This explains why some of the earliest manuscripts of the Septuagint that exist today (dating back to the fourth century) contain these additional books.
Realizing this I do question the complete validity of "ALL" that is between the pages. Artemis do you see the controversy, from 1517 and the Protestant reformation.
Sadly this removal has been done after the reformation of 1517 by Martin Luther and a slow removal of Jewishness and Catholicism by the 2,800 different kinds of Protestant Christian denominations. There is no problem with the original Septuagint Greek bible of 73 books, thus no controversy.
Jun 30, 2015 22:55:39 #
Artemis, This does NOT devalue the message of Jesus, but it does put forth who was he really. Again, Artemis, I'm not sure specifically or very clear as to what your asking or telling me here, ?
As the many Jews feel he was a master teacher a prophet but NOT their Messiah. The Scribes, Pharisees Rabi's, Sadducees Rabi's, Essenes Rabi's, Zealots, Samaritans priests and the Roman would all agree with you. Sorry, Artemis just having some fun.
Maybe he was a man so far connected to the divine powers, the divine powers which connects all of us to each other and all of life, that he had the ability to create the miracles he made possible.
Artemis I asked you in a question, are you having doubts ? You responded "I have some doubts, not doubts of divinity, doubts of the "written" word and the interpretation's of each particular author.
Are you still having doubts about Jesus Christ's divinity ? You seem to be wavering here ?
Just some thought.
Why did Jesus Christ ministry succeed with-out the written words of Jesus Christ on velum or papyrus. I can't answer that question.
I believe his words of course touched the hearts of many, more than any other, he came here bearing no weapons, only to speak of love and forgiveness. Not in the way of the old testament. It was in a more peaceful way to accept your brothers. It was and is beautiful. He changed the world for the better. You mean Jesus Christ's divinity ?
Unfortunately some of us have found undesirable and harsh quotes from the bible, and this is why my beliefs have changed to a more loving spirit than what I have found in the new testament. Then you have your doubts, about the New testament teaching of Jesus Christ's and you referring to Jesus Christ's divinity ?
Artemis, are you saying that you are modifying another version of the 2,800 different forms of Protestant Christianity ?
Artemis, one word comes to me, and I'm not being judgmental. Justification ! One must take the good and the bad of the Bible, just as we take our daily lives. We can-not be shopping cart Christians, as we pick and choose what we like and dislike about Christianity.
Thats why God gave us freedom of choice, "Free Will." Act your gut instinct, your first choice is usually right, but on the other hand discernment contemplation and prayer is a powerful weapon against indecisiveness, pray some more.
It is hard for me to discuss religion, I am not a religious person. I don't feel I need a church or the mantra of a group.
Listen my friend we all go through doubts, Your doing a great job, your asking questions, and you said that you learned some information that you had not heard before.
As I said earlier in a a thread post to you Artemis. The funny thing about history is, just when you think you know everything, history and religion, throw's you a curve ball. Then you need to rethink, your perspective of the historical accounts of Jesus Christ.
Yet why do some many miss this simple message. You mean Jesus Christ's divinity or do you mean "Human Nature" ?
We all have original sin, but we have divine intervention the written and spoken word of Jesus Christ and the fulfillment of biblical prophesy of the Old and New Testament. I do believe I will be saved and will have salvation from our Lord, He is the Way, the Truth and The Life.
I will have to continue this later this evening, my apologies, but you have put up much to discuss and I hope others share their opinions too but also in a peaceful and respectful manner. Your doing a great job, thank you for your kindness honesty and sincerity.
As the many Jews feel he was a master teacher a prophet but NOT their Messiah. The Scribes, Pharisees Rabi's, Sadducees Rabi's, Essenes Rabi's, Zealots, Samaritans priests and the Roman would all agree with you. Sorry, Artemis just having some fun.
Maybe he was a man so far connected to the divine powers, the divine powers which connects all of us to each other and all of life, that he had the ability to create the miracles he made possible.
Artemis I asked you in a question, are you having doubts ? You responded "I have some doubts, not doubts of divinity, doubts of the "written" word and the interpretation's of each particular author.
Are you still having doubts about Jesus Christ's divinity ? You seem to be wavering here ?
Just some thought.
Why did Jesus Christ ministry succeed with-out the written words of Jesus Christ on velum or papyrus. I can't answer that question.
I believe his words of course touched the hearts of many, more than any other, he came here bearing no weapons, only to speak of love and forgiveness. Not in the way of the old testament. It was in a more peaceful way to accept your brothers. It was and is beautiful. He changed the world for the better. You mean Jesus Christ's divinity ?
Unfortunately some of us have found undesirable and harsh quotes from the bible, and this is why my beliefs have changed to a more loving spirit than what I have found in the new testament. Then you have your doubts, about the New testament teaching of Jesus Christ's and you referring to Jesus Christ's divinity ?
Artemis, are you saying that you are modifying another version of the 2,800 different forms of Protestant Christianity ?
Artemis, one word comes to me, and I'm not being judgmental. Justification ! One must take the good and the bad of the Bible, just as we take our daily lives. We can-not be shopping cart Christians, as we pick and choose what we like and dislike about Christianity.
Thats why God gave us freedom of choice, "Free Will." Act your gut instinct, your first choice is usually right, but on the other hand discernment contemplation and prayer is a powerful weapon against indecisiveness, pray some more.
It is hard for me to discuss religion, I am not a religious person. I don't feel I need a church or the mantra of a group.
Listen my friend we all go through doubts, Your doing a great job, your asking questions, and you said that you learned some information that you had not heard before.
As I said earlier in a a thread post to you Artemis. The funny thing about history is, just when you think you know everything, history and religion, throw's you a curve ball. Then you need to rethink, your perspective of the historical accounts of Jesus Christ.
Yet why do some many miss this simple message. You mean Jesus Christ's divinity or do you mean "Human Nature" ?
We all have original sin, but we have divine intervention the written and spoken word of Jesus Christ and the fulfillment of biblical prophesy of the Old and New Testament. I do believe I will be saved and will have salvation from our Lord, He is the Way, the Truth and The Life.
I will have to continue this later this evening, my apologies, but you have put up much to discuss and I hope others share their opinions too but also in a peaceful and respectful manner. Your doing a great job, thank you for your kindness honesty and sincerity.
Jul 1, 2015 00:30:28 #
[quote=Doc110]Artemis, This does NOT devalue the message of Jesus, but it does put forth who was he really. Again, Artemis, I'm not sure specifically or very clear as to what your asking or telling me here, ?
As the many Jews feel he was a master teacher a prophet but NOT their Messiah. The Scribes, Pharisees Rabi's, Sadducees Rabi's, Essenes Rabi's, Zealots, Samaritans priests and the Roman would all agree with you. Sorry, Artemis just having some fun.
a.)Are they wrong, Christians are
Maybe a better question is who is God? If we knew who he was we would possibly know who Jesus was. He said he was the son of God he also said we are all children of God. If that is true that would make you are the son of God and I am the daughter. Do you see the dilemma? Are any of us valued any less.
Maybe he was a man so far connected to the divine powers, the divine powers which connects all of us to each other and all of life, that he had the ability to create the miracles he made possible.
Artemis I asked you in a question, are you having doubts ? You responded "I have some doubts, not doubts of divinity, doubts of the "written" word and the interpretation's of each particular author.
Are you still having doubts about Jesus Christ's divinity ? You seem to be wavering here ?
b.) No, but I would have to go through the Bible in its entirety combing through what and where I have doubt.
Just some thought.
Why did Jesus Christ ministry succeed with-out the written words of Jesus Christ on velum or papyrus. I can't answer that question.
c.)You are correct at that time the word for the average citizen was mostly told to them by story.
His word for that time was one for peace, love and forgiveness, he created a following. Why because I believe people have an innate goodness. They want to have peace, people gravitated to him because of this.
I believe his words of course touched the hearts of many, more than any other, he came here bearing no weapons, only to speak of love and forgiveness. Not in the way of the old testament. It was in a more peaceful way to accept your brothers. It was and is beautiful. He changed the world for the better. You mean Jesus Christ's divinity ?
Yes
Unfortunately some of us have found undesirable and harsh quotes from the bible, and this is why my beliefs have changed to a more loving spirit than what I have found in the new testament. Then you have your doubts, about the New testament teaching of Jesus Christ's and you referring to Jesus Christ's divinity ?
Artemis, are you saying that you are modifying another version of the 2,800 different forms of Protestant Christianity ?
d.) [i]No/i]
Artemis, one word comes to me, and I'm not being judgmental. Justification ! One must take the good and the bad of the Bible, just as we take our daily lives. We can-not be shopping cart Christians, as we pick and choose what we like and dislike about Christianity.
Thats why God gave us freedom of choice, "Free Will." Act your gut instinct, your first choice is usually right, but on the other hand discernment contemplation and prayer is a powerful weapon against indecisiveness, pray some more.
It is hard for me to discuss religion, I am not a religious person. I don't feel I need a church or the mantra of a group.
Listen my friend we all go through doubts, Your doing a great job, your asking questions, and you said that you learned some information that you had not heard before.
As I said earlier in a a thread post to you Artemis. The funny thing about history is, just when you think you know everything, history and religion, throw's you a curve ball. Then you need to rethink, your perspective of the historical accounts of Jesus Christ.
e.)Yes, I weigh things vey carefully before I draw my conclusions. Even with a curve ball
Yet why do some many miss this simple message. You mean Jesus Christ's divinity or do you mean "Human Nature" ?
f.)The message of Christ
We all have original sin, but we have divine intervention the written and spoken word of Jesus Christ and the fulfillment of biblical prophesy of the Old and New Testament. I do believe I will be saved and will have salvation from our Lord, He is the Way, the Truth and The Life.
I will have to continue this later this evening, my apologies, but you have put up much to discuss and I hope others share their opinions too but also in a peaceful and respectful manner. Your doing a great job, thank you for your kindness honesty and sincerity.[/quote]
Very Good, God Bless
As the many Jews feel he was a master teacher a prophet but NOT their Messiah. The Scribes, Pharisees Rabi's, Sadducees Rabi's, Essenes Rabi's, Zealots, Samaritans priests and the Roman would all agree with you. Sorry, Artemis just having some fun.
a.)Are they wrong, Christians are
Maybe a better question is who is God? If we knew who he was we would possibly know who Jesus was. He said he was the son of God he also said we are all children of God. If that is true that would make you are the son of God and I am the daughter. Do you see the dilemma? Are any of us valued any less.
Maybe he was a man so far connected to the divine powers, the divine powers which connects all of us to each other and all of life, that he had the ability to create the miracles he made possible.
Artemis I asked you in a question, are you having doubts ? You responded "I have some doubts, not doubts of divinity, doubts of the "written" word and the interpretation's of each particular author.
Are you still having doubts about Jesus Christ's divinity ? You seem to be wavering here ?
b.) No, but I would have to go through the Bible in its entirety combing through what and where I have doubt.
Just some thought.
Why did Jesus Christ ministry succeed with-out the written words of Jesus Christ on velum or papyrus. I can't answer that question.
c.)You are correct at that time the word for the average citizen was mostly told to them by story.
His word for that time was one for peace, love and forgiveness, he created a following. Why because I believe people have an innate goodness. They want to have peace, people gravitated to him because of this.
I believe his words of course touched the hearts of many, more than any other, he came here bearing no weapons, only to speak of love and forgiveness. Not in the way of the old testament. It was in a more peaceful way to accept your brothers. It was and is beautiful. He changed the world for the better. You mean Jesus Christ's divinity ?
Yes
Unfortunately some of us have found undesirable and harsh quotes from the bible, and this is why my beliefs have changed to a more loving spirit than what I have found in the new testament. Then you have your doubts, about the New testament teaching of Jesus Christ's and you referring to Jesus Christ's divinity ?
Artemis, are you saying that you are modifying another version of the 2,800 different forms of Protestant Christianity ?
d.) [i]No/i]
Artemis, one word comes to me, and I'm not being judgmental. Justification ! One must take the good and the bad of the Bible, just as we take our daily lives. We can-not be shopping cart Christians, as we pick and choose what we like and dislike about Christianity.
Thats why God gave us freedom of choice, "Free Will." Act your gut instinct, your first choice is usually right, but on the other hand discernment contemplation and prayer is a powerful weapon against indecisiveness, pray some more.
It is hard for me to discuss religion, I am not a religious person. I don't feel I need a church or the mantra of a group.
Listen my friend we all go through doubts, Your doing a great job, your asking questions, and you said that you learned some information that you had not heard before.
As I said earlier in a a thread post to you Artemis. The funny thing about history is, just when you think you know everything, history and religion, throw's you a curve ball. Then you need to rethink, your perspective of the historical accounts of Jesus Christ.
e.)Yes, I weigh things vey carefully before I draw my conclusions. Even with a curve ball
Yet why do some many miss this simple message. You mean Jesus Christ's divinity or do you mean "Human Nature" ?
f.)The message of Christ
We all have original sin, but we have divine intervention the written and spoken word of Jesus Christ and the fulfillment of biblical prophesy of the Old and New Testament. I do believe I will be saved and will have salvation from our Lord, He is the Way, the Truth and The Life.
I will have to continue this later this evening, my apologies, but you have put up much to discuss and I hope others share their opinions too but also in a peaceful and respectful manner. Your doing a great job, thank you for your kindness honesty and sincerity.[/quote]
Very Good, God Bless
Jul 1, 2015 00:54:07 #
Artemis, Peace, and with His Spirit, be upon you.
Its like this theory of mine, I say time to time, about the avocado and the mango seeds. They are too big, couldn't God make them smaller, what about the Giraffe ? Do you think God made a mistake ? Just some humor.
I can't imagine why he chose not to, did he feel the need to recording" his word" unimportant ?
[b/]When you read the the Old and New Testament are you not compelled to dig further into the messages of God. No God did this on purpose to bring out our Faith like a small child, when a small child trusts, I think we don't always need to question God.
Artemis, I believe that God graces us all, some more than others. It is you that need to open your heart and mind to those graces that He extends you.[/b]
Do me a favor, please listen to this biblical and historical minister on this website, it will open up many doors. Unfortunately the minister talks a lot about messianic prophesy. But the Old and New Testament is filled with prophesy am I right ?
http://www.allaboutgod.com/chuck-missler.htm
http://www.firefighters.org/html/library.cfm
It would have stopped much of the second guessing.
Yes I agree with you 100 %, but then we would not need our Faith in God would we. Just think God as a spiritual father, Spiritually God is giving you nourishment for your soul and is guiding you path through life and for his Salvation.
He was the son of God, therefore it has nothing to do with was he capable or not, we know he was. Awesome thought now your on the right path Artemis.
As you say how can we presume to know, all we can do is wonder. Amen. Do you know the definition of AMEN from the Hebrew to the English ? "I believe !"
Even if he had wrote his own book he would have still needed the Apostles to be a witness and spread his word. I think that was the plan along.
Are we not allowed to wonder. I'm amassed every day of my life, I look at his majesty nature, the thunderstorm we are having now and the rain the beauty.
Let me ask you, has this old book written by men been a restraint of the other possibilities of what or who God is ? I have no doubts at all after some of the things I have seen and have been given a sad but wonderful life.
Artemis, Re-learn Genesis start digging deeper into your spiritual life, I can never learn enough. I've read the Bible over six times, and countless passages and books that defy human logic. No this "Old Book," is always fresh and new.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/chuck-missler.htm
Man always questions religion, God. It's in our human nature we can't help ourselves. Stop second guessing your self. Your on the right path. You have accepted the divinity of Our Lord, thats the first step, now to know your faith.
Look at the origins of the Apostles and early church fathers. They were being persecuted and killed by their belief and faith in Jesus Christ. If I only had as much faith as they had in Jesus Christ.
Did God create us in his own image? Or was that the only way a simple self centered man would create a story about the creation of life?
Accept the divinity of Our Lord, have Faith Artemis.
Creating God to be the image of man? I do not mean anything, I've just said with disrespect, it is where I have doubt or disbelief as you asked.
I realize what your saying, go and listen to Genesis from the beginning and open yourself to God's word. http://www.allaboutgod.com/chuck-missler.htm
Maybe God is beyond our simple comprehension.
Here is a story, that I heard. Hopefully i'm paraphrasing it correctly. Lets say we have a planet, full of giants that God created, And God sends his only begotten son to this planet, as a miniature dog, and he was told to convert these blood thirsty waring pagans. Something to think about ?
If time is eternity than we must replicate a grain of sand to all the sand in the world. For me the Bible maybe preventing us to really see what the possibilities really are.
No my friend you are have just begun your journey, learn peace in your heart, mind and your soul.
If life has been around for eons it would make sense that life takes different forms of energy and never dies, as the soul, maybe travels through time and space. This may seem far fetched to you, I only wonder.
A true Christian heartfelt story Artemis, because I was there to have witnessed this loving story.
The day that I was laid off from this movie I was working on, I drove to my mothers and fathers house. When I arrived no one was there. Eventually my Sister and Father came home and got out of the car. I asked where mom was, I was told in the hospital for observation.
I was asked, would I watch Dad. I said sure, and my sister said she would be up in a week. Earlier that night mom had slipped into a coma, that morning I received a call from the hospital, saying that my Mom was in a coma since 11:00 pm.
Well I got Dad up and drove immediately to the Hospital. After getting dad situated, I spoke to the Doctors He sat me down and gave me the bad news and then gave the sad news to dad my brothers sisters and Grandchildren.
I spoke to Nurse in the Intensive Care unit and asked the nurse to call the Priest for Last Rites and anointing the sick. Mom was totally unresponsive and on a facial respirator which was breathing for her.
Well the priest arrived, and I said to Mom the Priest was here. She opened her eyes. Amen.
The Priest asked me and wanted to give her communion, I told no, that she has been unresponsive and in a coma for the past 8 hours.
Mom's Oxygen saturation levels even with the respirator breathing machines were in 50's and normally should be in the 90's. She was totally cyanotic or unresponsive with those oxygen levels and her fingertips were almost blue no blood circulation.
I mentioned to the Priest, that Last Rites and Anointing of the Sick would be fine. My Father, the Priest and myself held Moms hand and we said several prayers and he gave the Last Rites and Anointing of the Sick.
When this was done, Mom immediately closed her eyes, never to open them again. Not soon after this we turned the breathing machine off.
Within five minutes she passed, and was in no pain.
To this day, Priests, Doctors, Nurses or my brothers or sisters can give no explanation or any reason to understand, how and why Mom opened up her eyes for two to three minutes.
I give this testament to you Artemis, about my Mothers Faith in God and my testament to have been graced by God's Love. With my Father and the Priest to have witness and observe, Gods blessings and my mothers total commitment to faith in God, her Savior.
In reality to what we know. We have our Faith, because Our Redeemer lives.
Its like this theory of mine, I say time to time, about the avocado and the mango seeds. They are too big, couldn't God make them smaller, what about the Giraffe ? Do you think God made a mistake ? Just some humor.
I can't imagine why he chose not to, did he feel the need to recording" his word" unimportant ?
[b/]When you read the the Old and New Testament are you not compelled to dig further into the messages of God. No God did this on purpose to bring out our Faith like a small child, when a small child trusts, I think we don't always need to question God.
Artemis, I believe that God graces us all, some more than others. It is you that need to open your heart and mind to those graces that He extends you.[/b]
Do me a favor, please listen to this biblical and historical minister on this website, it will open up many doors. Unfortunately the minister talks a lot about messianic prophesy. But the Old and New Testament is filled with prophesy am I right ?
http://www.allaboutgod.com/chuck-missler.htm
http://www.firefighters.org/html/library.cfm
It would have stopped much of the second guessing.
Yes I agree with you 100 %, but then we would not need our Faith in God would we. Just think God as a spiritual father, Spiritually God is giving you nourishment for your soul and is guiding you path through life and for his Salvation.
He was the son of God, therefore it has nothing to do with was he capable or not, we know he was. Awesome thought now your on the right path Artemis.
As you say how can we presume to know, all we can do is wonder. Amen. Do you know the definition of AMEN from the Hebrew to the English ? "I believe !"
Even if he had wrote his own book he would have still needed the Apostles to be a witness and spread his word. I think that was the plan along.
Are we not allowed to wonder. I'm amassed every day of my life, I look at his majesty nature, the thunderstorm we are having now and the rain the beauty.
Let me ask you, has this old book written by men been a restraint of the other possibilities of what or who God is ? I have no doubts at all after some of the things I have seen and have been given a sad but wonderful life.
Artemis, Re-learn Genesis start digging deeper into your spiritual life, I can never learn enough. I've read the Bible over six times, and countless passages and books that defy human logic. No this "Old Book," is always fresh and new.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/chuck-missler.htm
Man always questions religion, God. It's in our human nature we can't help ourselves. Stop second guessing your self. Your on the right path. You have accepted the divinity of Our Lord, thats the first step, now to know your faith.
Look at the origins of the Apostles and early church fathers. They were being persecuted and killed by their belief and faith in Jesus Christ. If I only had as much faith as they had in Jesus Christ.
Did God create us in his own image? Or was that the only way a simple self centered man would create a story about the creation of life?
Accept the divinity of Our Lord, have Faith Artemis.
Creating God to be the image of man? I do not mean anything, I've just said with disrespect, it is where I have doubt or disbelief as you asked.
I realize what your saying, go and listen to Genesis from the beginning and open yourself to God's word. http://www.allaboutgod.com/chuck-missler.htm
Maybe God is beyond our simple comprehension.
Here is a story, that I heard. Hopefully i'm paraphrasing it correctly. Lets say we have a planet, full of giants that God created, And God sends his only begotten son to this planet, as a miniature dog, and he was told to convert these blood thirsty waring pagans. Something to think about ?
If time is eternity than we must replicate a grain of sand to all the sand in the world. For me the Bible maybe preventing us to really see what the possibilities really are.
No my friend you are have just begun your journey, learn peace in your heart, mind and your soul.
If life has been around for eons it would make sense that life takes different forms of energy and never dies, as the soul, maybe travels through time and space. This may seem far fetched to you, I only wonder.
A true Christian heartfelt story Artemis, because I was there to have witnessed this loving story.
The day that I was laid off from this movie I was working on, I drove to my mothers and fathers house. When I arrived no one was there. Eventually my Sister and Father came home and got out of the car. I asked where mom was, I was told in the hospital for observation.
I was asked, would I watch Dad. I said sure, and my sister said she would be up in a week. Earlier that night mom had slipped into a coma, that morning I received a call from the hospital, saying that my Mom was in a coma since 11:00 pm.
Well I got Dad up and drove immediately to the Hospital. After getting dad situated, I spoke to the Doctors He sat me down and gave me the bad news and then gave the sad news to dad my brothers sisters and Grandchildren.
I spoke to Nurse in the Intensive Care unit and asked the nurse to call the Priest for Last Rites and anointing the sick. Mom was totally unresponsive and on a facial respirator which was breathing for her.
Well the priest arrived, and I said to Mom the Priest was here. She opened her eyes. Amen.
The Priest asked me and wanted to give her communion, I told no, that she has been unresponsive and in a coma for the past 8 hours.
Mom's Oxygen saturation levels even with the respirator breathing machines were in 50's and normally should be in the 90's. She was totally cyanotic or unresponsive with those oxygen levels and her fingertips were almost blue no blood circulation.
I mentioned to the Priest, that Last Rites and Anointing of the Sick would be fine. My Father, the Priest and myself held Moms hand and we said several prayers and he gave the Last Rites and Anointing of the Sick.
When this was done, Mom immediately closed her eyes, never to open them again. Not soon after this we turned the breathing machine off.
Within five minutes she passed, and was in no pain.
To this day, Priests, Doctors, Nurses or my brothers or sisters can give no explanation or any reason to understand, how and why Mom opened up her eyes for two to three minutes.
I give this testament to you Artemis, about my Mothers Faith in God and my testament to have been graced by God's Love. With my Father and the Priest to have witness and observe, Gods blessings and my mothers total commitment to faith in God, her Savior.
In reality to what we know. We have our Faith, because Our Redeemer lives.
Jul 1, 2015 07:09:53 #
Doc110 wrote:
Artemis, Peace, and with His Spirit, be upon you.... (show quote)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you Doc for sharing your touching story, I was deeply and truly moved. I will reflect on all that you have said and linked and give consideration. Feel assured even with all my questions, I do not lack faith. I listen to my heart and soul and feel very connected to our divine source.
Go in peace and I hope you change your avatar to show the compassionate person you really are. :thumbup: Thank you for your time and conversation, have a great day!
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