jeff smith

you are correct . we are not based on Christianity. we were founded on a lot of Judeo - Christian beliefs . with the freedoms and rights that all people should have. thank you.

jeff smith

my comment about " you atheist , agnostics , and non believers" was in general terms. your belief or faith is not known to me. what do you believe? as for non - Christians I have never known any one to be forced to say Merry Christmas, at any time. it is possible that a store may require a employ to say it but I don't think that would be right or proper.

bdamage Loc: My Bunker

Speaking of stupid.....you socialists need a big-time wake up call on history....

Sir Winston Churchill defined socialism as “a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Sadly, there are Americans who embrace this philosophy and those who’ve implanted this philosophy of failure into the highest office in the land. And it just might be there to stay, if one presidential candidate has her way.

Hillary Supporters

PeterS

Poor Christians under attack again! Did you ever stop to think that if you stopped trying to inject religious beliefs into government that maybe people would stop trying to prosecute you? Of course not cuze this country belongs to you and you can do damn well anything you want huh!

That's your problem right there BD--you insist that you have a right to insert your religious beliefs into a secular government belongs to everyone, not just the Christian right! Unless you want a theocracy it just aint gonna work...

So BD, why not explain to us how a theocracy is better than secularism. Maybe you could use Iran as an example...

PeterS

How does Judeo-Christian beliefs translate into freedom and individual rights. I would especially like to know how individualism, a philosophy developed by a confirmed ATHEIST, is embarrassed by rightwing Christians even though so many elements of it promote greed and lust for more and more personal property irrespective of damage done to the Whole?

PeterS

You are aware that it was Churchill who kicked of single payer National Healthcare in Great Britain aren't you?

"The discoveries of healing science must be the inheritance of all . . . . Disease must be attacked whether it occurs in the poorest or the richest man or woman, simply on the ground that it is the enemy . . . . Our policy is to create a national health service, in order to secure that everybody in the country, irrespective of means, age, sex, or occupation, shall have equal opportunities to benefit from the best and most up-to-date medical and allied services available."

Strange that an anti socialist would be so fundamental to the creation of one of the most socialistic acts of government there is.

You really should check out the people you fall in love with BD as the may not be who you think they really are...

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

How does a Christmas ornament bother you? Scare you? Offend you? Tradition in our ran deep, and even today over 70% of the American population reconized as Christian or believing in God, and for most of America's history a higher percentage. So a founded tradition, based on a greater portion of the population should not hang an ornament? Because it damages non believers how? Hogwash! !!! The atheist use this (offended) tatic or the (why force down our throats) in order to force their religion of non beliefs and remove God period. Any other explanation is a dumbed up LIE.
The first usa school houses used the bible for their text book, it was only until recent years the corrupt judges clearly we outside the bill of Rights in removing prayer from school. Again why should I be restricted from talking to my God when you want me too, or not? If I'm in a government building and want to call my wife, but not God? But then the left provides prayer mats and designated rooms in our universities for Muslims, but Christians praying may get one expelled? Again, an agenda by liberal/progressives/marxist/communists to remove the greater majority that do believe in Christian beliefs and replace with government as God, while destroying the family unit, morals, and ethics.
Jesus also ssid. " I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the father but by me"
I publicly prone my faith with a cross, and will never stop praying where, and when I want too, and if that offends anyone..........get a grip, stop being a pansie baby and tolerate my belief as believers tolerate your unbelief.

PaulPisces Loc: San Francisco

Because I am an honest man I don't feel it is fair to identify as a Christian even though that is my heritage. It would be disrespectful to Christians, since I not a true believer.

But that doesn't prevent me from putting up a tree with all my ornaments, some from my childhood. It's a beautiful and happy thing. Besides, the Christmas tree is a pagan symbol, long ago co-opted by Christians.

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

Your honesty is appreciated and your Christmas tree as pagan is misinformation, understandable because it has been sold as pagan by many author's.

Christmas is certainly not pagan. Sure, Jesus’ birth was probably in the Fall rather than December but the exact day is uncertain. Even so, Christmas is the celebration of the savior’s birth because that is when most all Christian churches celebrate. While some customs have a distant pagan origin, the idea that Christmas trees are pagan is almost certainly false. Jeremiah 10 describes fashioning Canaanite idols from fresh cut wood and precious metals. It has nothing to do with Christmas trees. There have been a myriad of customs in different cultures using holly and evergreen but there is not a discernable evolution from paganism to today’s Christmas tree from the ancient world. Christianity relegated pagan belief to the cultural dustbin and tree customs were sporadic and divergent until after the reformation. The modern tree began in sixteenth century Germany. The best evidence points to Martin Luther for popularizing the candle lit evergreen tree.[i] As the reformation spread, so did Luther’s legacy. A popular artist, Carl Schwerdgeburth, painted a scene of Luther’s family around a candle-lit tree:

 This painting, depicting what oral tradition indicated happened in 1536, was engraved in a gift book titled Wheat Sheaffrom 1853 that was published in Philadelphia. It also said that Luther was the first to light a tree with candles in order to illustrate the “light of God” to his children.

Because Luther was a great advocate of Christmas, the Christmas tree became a sign of Protestant solidarity and German nationalism. The Catholic majority of the lower Rhine discouraged the lighted tree as a Protestant custom. In the early nineteenth century, lit trees gained widespread acceptance across Germany.[iii] Most likely, the tradition came to the United States with Hessian troops during the American Revolution and/or the German immigrants to Pennsylvania and Ohio.

Many have pointed out the New England puritans did not recognize the holiday. However, their reasoning for disdain was not its alleged pagan origins but rather a form of strict biblicism that asserted that if a holiday is not in scripture it should not be celebrated. Not many folks still agree that conclusion is scriptural because it is inconsistent with our freedom of conscience in Christ (Col 2:16). Because we are not under Israelite ceremonial law, we are free to celebrate the birth of the savior any day we please! Finally, it is safe to say, that hardly anyone is thinking about pagan deities while performing Christmas traditions. Most of the conspiracy theories give paganism too much credit. Paganism did not infect Christianity but rather Christianity made paganism irrelevant.

Hope this helps, as you seem sincere in being honest. As for once was or identified as a Christian. You never were, and very well may have been indoctrinated by family or friends also identifying as but not Christians.

21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.
many have tasted the fruit, but not received the power and indwelling of the holy spirit. What I do know is fully one third of the bible is prophesy and like not time in 2000 years of biblical history has there been a convergence of signs and prophecy fulfilling as now! Many are 3500 year old prophecies and as the heathen, wicked, man Jesus died for my sins too, loves me and is my lord and saviour, and even in my failed state and sinful nature. God loves you sooo much and nothing in your or anyone's life would make him reject a cry out to him. Look at the world, and consider the bible prophecies blooming forth [today]. That's my diatribe, and wish you well.

PaulPisces Loc: San Francisco

Thank you for your good wishes Jack. They are most appreciated. And though I do not adhere to your faith, I truly respect the fervence of your comittment.

As to the tree issue, there remains a great deal of scholarship that would peg its origins much earlier than the advent of Christianity. No matter to me. It remains a beautiful symbol of hope, warmth and the incredible beauty of nature to me, and I find no reason people of many faiths cannot enjoy that.

CDM Loc: Florida

Anyone who believes this argument is not exaggerated on both sides needs to take a closer look at the language. This is a great example...


“We know that non-Christians should be forced to say Merry Christmas for a month and a half each year...”

'Should' is subjective to the extreme and 'forced' is absolute. I for one would really, really like to see the logic behind and underlying support for this statement... Are you saying the religious element is lobbying for legislation to force me to say merry Christmas to every human being I meet from November 14th to December 26th?

no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun

Where ever the concept of the Christmas tree came from, I agree that they are beautiful when well decorated. I like the ones that are outside, still living and can be decorated in popcorn, raisins and cranberry strings after Christmas so the birds can enjoy them, and we can watch the Cardinals and Jays as they feast. As far as the ones that are chopped down and brought in to decorate-- all I can think about is the line from WKRP in Cincinnati "In the spirit of Christmas we murdered a tree for you" My second favorite line from the series, favorite being "I really thought turkeys could fly" from Les Nessman.

CDM Loc: Florida

bdamage; I am not religious but certainly don't have any desire to interfere with anyones beliefs...regardless where they lay...that said;

I would make the following observation; if the Pope is not cautious to the extreme he is very likely to end up on your list soon. He is, from the perspective of history, dangerously close to leading the flock over the line, into servitude with no pretense of being shrouded in faith...

Just an observation.

PaulPisces Loc: San Francisco

CDM - I'm wondering what it is the current pope is doing that you feel he imght be leading his flock "over the edge"? He seems to me to be an exceptionally good man who cares very deeply for both his flock and for he core values espoused by Christ. All might give thanks for that, as popes through history have not always been particularly good and holy people!!

bdamage Loc: My Bunker

I'm not sure exactly what the Pope is....but he definitely isn't one that I would put much confidence in to lead Christians.
He seems to be wanting to squash all faiths into one big WORLD religion.
He's a big supporter of the UN.