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Mar 30, 2017 11:10:18   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
On the things I can say in 800 words

Originally published at Overland



A writer has been asked to produce a romantic story for a magazine but, as the deadline approaches, finds himself 3000 words short of the required length. Luckily, he thinks of an expedient. He concludes the story with the following exchange between the two protagonists:

‘I love you.’
‘Oh, darling … say it again one thousand times!’


This old gag by Italian humourist Achille Campanile illustrates an apparent paradox: that we are so often asked to write not for as long as an idea or a story requires to be properly expressed, but to fill a given space, whether measured in words, pages or time. Campanile started his career in the age of the Futurists, who wrote plays such as Francesco Cangiullo’s Detonation (1915), in which a shot rings out across the empty stage, then the curtain falls: the spectators therefore would be left not only to reflect on the puzzling brevity of the performance, but also to find something else to do with the rest of their evening. (It is unclear whether the play was ever staged.)

Detonation underscores the fact that length is an aesthetic measurement: what you can do or say in a very short play is fundamentally different, not just in quantity but also in quality, from a play of more traditional duration. There is literally no entertainment if you don’t actually keep the audience occupied for a substantial amount of time. Conversely, Umberto Eco wrote memorably about the sublime prolixity of Alexandre Dumas, père, who got paid by the word and also based his commercial success on his ability to stretch his imagery to its breaking point.

Essays operate in a similar way. If we go back to the beginnings of the form, we find that Montaigne varied the time he spent on his subjects greatly. The average length of his 107 published essays is a little over 3000 words, but ranges from as little as 300 words (‘Of the Parsimony of the Ancients’) to a whopping 25,000 (‘Of Experience’). And although the essays tended to get longer over time, the overall pace of the three books is remarkably uniform, as if he really only dev**ed to each subject the attention it required, and length were wholly and exclusively a function of content.

Nowadays, mandated essay lengths balance the needs of publishers (or teachers) to have something substantial enough to publish (or assess), with the needs of writers to know the level of detail and depth of engagement required.

One can praise succinctness, and opine that more words don’t always equal better words. (Karl Kraus: ‘There are writers who can say in as few as twenty pages what it takes me as many as two lines to express.’) But what if you don’t have enough to say? The wikiHow page entitled ‘How to Make an Essay Appear Longer Than It Is’ contains many useful suggestions aimed at the US college student who has trouble completing an assignment, but its wisdom is more widely applicable and would have impressed old man Dumas himself.

Some of the suggestions are obvious enough. (Do not use contractions: just do not.) Others are more elaborate, such as encouraging the student to learn to use a highly formal, imagery-rich prose style, or to summarise the key point of each paragraph in a sentence before moving on to the next one (such signposting is almost a rule for good writing). But much greater heights are scaled by the typographical suggestions for the benefit of students who have to fill a certain number of pages, as opposed to reaching a certain number of words. These aren’t limited to the use of large titles, or remembering to mention the name of the instructor in the title page, or double-spacing the text, or using the maximum allowable font size, or even the biggest font for a given font size (it’s Lucida Sans Typewriter, in case you’re wondering, followed by Arial and Euphemia UCAS). The master trick is to make all full stops and commas a larger size than the rest of the text, which apparently can stretch a document a great deal while being scarcely noticeable.

‘Use bigger commas’ would be a terrific rallying cry for an advanced writing course, but we’re in the realm of the comic paradox again. In reality, the length of an essay usefully dictates its range of possible meanings. If I’m asked by Overland to write an 800-word column, as opposed to a 3000-word essay, it will affect not just my style but also my approach to the topic. In 800 words, I can only touch lightly upon a subject. Raise some questions but not fully articulate the answers. It is a length that is growing on me, as it were. And while it isn’t suited to all topics, it’s also true that not all topics that are suited to an 800-word column scale up well to a longer treatment.

With practice, naturally, you learn to pace yourself. Like an accomplished musician, you settle from the start on the right rhythm, which ensures you will never commit the cardinal sin of running out of words in the middle of a


Posted by Giovanni Tiso at 11:59 PM

Reply
Mar 30, 2017 12:08:26   #
Richard Rowland
 
pafret wrote:
On the things I can say in 800 words

Originally published at Overland



A writer has been asked to produce a romantic story for a magazine but, as the deadline approaches, finds himself 3000 words short of the required length. Luckily, he thinks of an expedient. He concludes the story with the following exchange between the two protagonists:

‘I love you.’
‘Oh, darling … say it again one thousand times!’


This old gag by Italian humourist Achille Campanile illustrates an apparent paradox: that we are so often asked to write not for as long as an idea or a story requires to be properly expressed, but to fill a given space, whether measured in words, pages or time. Campanile started his career in the age of the Futurists, who wrote plays such as Francesco Cangiullo’s Detonation (1915), in which a shot rings out across the empty stage, then the curtain falls: the spectators therefore would be left not only to reflect on the puzzling brevity of the performance, but also to find something else to do with the rest of their evening. (It is unclear whether the play was ever staged.)

Detonation underscores the fact that length is an aesthetic measurement: what you can do or say in a very short play is fundamentally different, not just in quantity but also in quality, from a play of more traditional duration. There is literally no entertainment if you don’t actually keep the audience occupied for a substantial amount of time. Conversely, Umberto Eco wrote memorably about the sublime prolixity of Alexandre Dumas, père, who got paid by the word and also based his commercial success on his ability to stretch his imagery to its breaking point.

Essays operate in a similar way. If we go back to the beginnings of the form, we find that Montaigne varied the time he spent on his subjects greatly. The average length of his 107 published essays is a little over 3000 words, but ranges from as little as 300 words (‘Of the Parsimony of the Ancients’) to a whopping 25,000 (‘Of Experience’). And although the essays tended to get longer over time, the overall pace of the three books is remarkably uniform, as if he really only dev**ed to each subject the attention it required, and length were wholly and exclusively a function of content.

Nowadays, mandated essay lengths balance the needs of publishers (or teachers) to have something substantial enough to publish (or assess), with the needs of writers to know the level of detail and depth of engagement required.

One can praise succinctness, and opine that more words don’t always equal better words. (Karl Kraus: ‘There are writers who can say in as few as twenty pages what it takes me as many as two lines to express.’) But what if you don’t have enough to say? The wikiHow page entitled ‘How to Make an Essay Appear Longer Than It Is’ contains many useful suggestions aimed at the US college student who has trouble completing an assignment, but its wisdom is more widely applicable and would have impressed old man Dumas himself.

Some of the suggestions are obvious enough. (Do not use contractions: just do not.) Others are more elaborate, such as encouraging the student to learn to use a highly formal, imagery-rich prose style, or to summarise the key point of each paragraph in a sentence before moving on to the next one (such signposting is almost a rule for good writing). But much greater heights are scaled by the typographical suggestions for the benefit of students who have to fill a certain number of pages, as opposed to reaching a certain number of words. These aren’t limited to the use of large titles, or remembering to mention the name of the instructor in the title page, or double-spacing the text, or using the maximum allowable font size, or even the biggest font for a given font size (it’s Lucida Sans Typewriter, in case you’re wondering, followed by Arial and Euphemia UCAS). The master trick is to make all full stops and commas a larger size than the rest of the text, which apparently can stretch a document a great deal while being scarcely noticeable.

‘Use bigger commas’ would be a terrific rallying cry for an advanced writing course, but we’re in the realm of the comic paradox again. In reality, the length of an essay usefully dictates its range of possible meanings. If I’m asked by Overland to write an 800-word column, as opposed to a 3000-word essay, it will affect not just my style but also my approach to the topic. In 800 words, I can only touch lightly upon a subject. Raise some questions but not fully articulate the answers. It is a length that is growing on me, as it were. And while it isn’t suited to all topics, it’s also true that not all topics that are suited to an 800-word column scale up well to a longer treatment.

With practice, naturally, you learn to pace yourself. Like an accomplished musician, you settle from the start on the right rhythm, which ensures you will never commit the cardinal sin of running out of words in the middle of a


Posted by Giovanni Tiso at 11:59 PM
On the things I can say in 800 words br br Origi... (show quote)


I love to write, however, when writing one should never be concerned with numbers, nor length. Once the flow of an idea or issue, being written about, has ceased....

Reply
Mar 30, 2017 12:43:37   #
JW
 
Not all writing is for entertainment purposes. Writing for argument, persuasion, recording facts and events and just for fun all dictate their own style and that determines length. The sole governor of length should be the accomplishment of the purpose for writing in the first place.

Reply
 
 
Mar 30, 2017 13:36:48   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
JW wrote:
Not all writing is for entertainment purposes. Writing for argument, persuasion, recording facts and events and just for fun all dictate their own style and that determines length. The sole governor of length should be the accomplishment of the purpose for writing in the first place.



That is substantially what Giovanni Tiso, the author of this piece argues. He is a Writer by profession and he often encounters requests for specific length articles. His suggestions are concerned with making a small article look larger, without beating the topic to death with excessive verbiage. Tiso is a New Zealander who was an Italian expatriate. His philosophy is Socialist but his writings are usually erudite and he uses the English language elegantly.

New Zealand has a population of roughly four and a half million people and their population has been changing:

"The ethnic makeup of the New Zealand population is undergoing a process of change, with new waves of immigration, higher birth rates and increasing interracial marriage resulting in the New Zealand population of Māori, Asian, Pacific Islander and multiracial descent growing at a higher rate than those of solely European descent, with such groups projected to make up a larger proportion of the population in the future."

The society exhibits all of the same problems in microcosm as our own nation. Our b****s are equivalent to the native Maoris, there is a furor over the nature of the refugee influx and a similar set of opinions and actions are appearing there as here. Tiso writes extensively on these topics, social, schools, discrimination, as well as other strictly academic topics. The latter because he does hold a Doctorate. It is fascinating to follow the echos and sometimes see precursors of what happens here.

Reply
Mar 30, 2017 13:54:10   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Good point, but really does it apply to the posters on OPP? I find the vast majority of the comments or threads only express the opinions or views found in articles or the words of others and are cut and pasted onto OPP.
pafret wrote:
On the things I can say in 800 words

Originally published at Overland



A writer has been asked to produce a romantic story for a magazine but, as the deadline approaches, finds himself 3000 words short of the required length. Luckily, he thinks of an expedient. He concludes the story with the following exchange between the two protagonists:

‘I love you.’
‘Oh, darling … say it again one thousand times!’


This old gag by Italian humourist Achille Campanile illustrates an apparent paradox: that we are so often asked to write not for as long as an idea or a story requires to be properly expressed, but to fill a given space, whether measured in words, pages or time. Campanile started his career in the age of the Futurists, who wrote plays such as Francesco Cangiullo’s Detonation (1915), in which a shot rings out across the empty stage, then the curtain falls: the spectators therefore would be left not only to reflect on the puzzling brevity of the performance, but also to find something else to do with the rest of their evening. (It is unclear whether the play was ever staged.)

Detonation underscores the fact that length is an aesthetic measurement: what you can do or say in a very short play is fundamentally different, not just in quantity but also in quality, from a play of more traditional duration. There is literally no entertainment if you don’t actually keep the audience occupied for a substantial amount of time. Conversely, Umberto Eco wrote memorably about the sublime prolixity of Alexandre Dumas, père, who got paid by the word and also based his commercial success on his ability to stretch his imagery to its breaking point.

Essays operate in a similar way. If we go back to the beginnings of the form, we find that Montaigne varied the time he spent on his subjects greatly. The average length of his 107 published essays is a little over 3000 words, but ranges from as little as 300 words (‘Of the Parsimony of the Ancients’) to a whopping 25,000 (‘Of Experience’). And although the essays tended to get longer over time, the overall pace of the three books is remarkably uniform, as if he really only dev**ed to each subject the attention it required, and length were wholly and exclusively a function of content.

Nowadays, mandated essay lengths balance the needs of publishers (or teachers) to have something substantial enough to publish (or assess), with the needs of writers to know the level of detail and depth of engagement required.

One can praise succinctness, and opine that more words don’t always equal better words. (Karl Kraus: ‘There are writers who can say in as few as twenty pages what it takes me as many as two lines to express.’) But what if you don’t have enough to say? The wikiHow page entitled ‘How to Make an Essay Appear Longer Than It Is’ contains many useful suggestions aimed at the US college student who has trouble completing an assignment, but its wisdom is more widely applicable and would have impressed old man Dumas himself.

Some of the suggestions are obvious enough. (Do not use contractions: just do not.) Others are more elaborate, such as encouraging the student to learn to use a highly formal, imagery-rich prose style, or to summarise the key point of each paragraph in a sentence before moving on to the next one (such signposting is almost a rule for good writing). But much greater heights are scaled by the typographical suggestions for the benefit of students who have to fill a certain number of pages, as opposed to reaching a certain number of words. These aren’t limited to the use of large titles, or remembering to mention the name of the instructor in the title page, or double-spacing the text, or using the maximum allowable font size, or even the biggest font for a given font size (it’s Lucida Sans Typewriter, in case you’re wondering, followed by Arial and Euphemia UCAS). The master trick is to make all full stops and commas a larger size than the rest of the text, which apparently can stretch a document a great deal while being scarcely noticeable.

‘Use bigger commas’ would be a terrific rallying cry for an advanced writing course, but we’re in the realm of the comic paradox again. In reality, the length of an essay usefully dictates its range of possible meanings. If I’m asked by Overland to write an 800-word column, as opposed to a 3000-word essay, it will affect not just my style but also my approach to the topic. In 800 words, I can only touch lightly upon a subject. Raise some questions but not fully articulate the answers. It is a length that is growing on me, as it were. And while it isn’t suited to all topics, it’s also true that not all topics that are suited to an 800-word column scale up well to a longer treatment.

With practice, naturally, you learn to pace yourself. Like an accomplished musician, you settle from the start on the right rhythm, which ensures you will never commit the cardinal sin of running out of words in the middle of a


Posted by Giovanni Tiso at 11:59 PM
On the things I can say in 800 words br br Origi... (show quote)

Reply
Mar 30, 2017 16:01:26   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Good point, but really does it apply to the posters on OPP? I find the vast majority of the comments or threads only express the opinions or views found in articles or the words of others and are cut and pasted onto OPP.


I am guilty of the same activity but I do it in the hopes of sparking some discussion. I try to give more than one line zingers as responses but I am always concerned that I am verbose, particularly when no one responds. This post was a sort of cattle prod, to see if anyone would respond with anthing more than the usual.

Reply
Mar 30, 2017 16:09:53   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
My responses are always much too long... in reality, I talk much too much and much too often and writing is just an extension of my being too wordy.


pafret wrote:
I am guilty of the same activity but I do it in the hopes of sparking some discussion. I try to give more than one line zingers as responses but I am always concerned that I am verbose, particularly when no one responds. This post was a sort of cattle prod, to see if anyone would respond with anthing more than the usual.

Reply
 
 
Mar 30, 2017 16:18:03   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
Pennylynn wrote:
My responses are always much too long... in reality, I talk much too much and much too often and writing is just an extension of my being too wordy.


Those of us, who have a lot of important stuff to say, always do it in depth. So much more satisfying then the usual "You don't Say". I think there was an Abbot and Costello routine using those words, not as famous as "Who's on first?" but funny anyway.

Reply
Mar 30, 2017 16:21:49   #
Richard Rowland
 
pafret wrote:
That is substantially what Giovanni Tiso, the author of this piece argues. He is a Writer by profession and he often encounters requests for specific length articles. His suggestions are concerned with making a small article look larger, without beating the topic to death with excessive verbiage. Tiso is a New Zealander who was an Italian expatriate. His philosophy is Socialist but his writings are usually erudite and he uses the English language elegantly.

New Zealand has a population of roughly four and a half million people and their population has been changing:

"The ethnic makeup of the New Zealand population is undergoing a process of change, with new waves of immigration, higher birth rates and increasing interracial marriage resulting in the New Zealand population of Māori, Asian, Pacific Islander and multiracial descent growing at a higher rate than those of solely European descent, with such groups projected to make up a larger proportion of the population in the future."

The society exhibits all of the same problems in microcosm as our own nation. Our b****s are equivalent to the native Maoris, there is a furor over the nature of the refugee influx and a similar set of opinions and actions are appearing there as here. Tiso writes extensively on these topics, social, schools, discrimination, as well as other strictly academic topics. The latter because he does hold a Doctorate. It is fascinating to follow the echos and sometimes see precursors of what happens here.
That is substantially what Giovanni Tiso, the auth... (show quote)


What does the demographics of New Zealand have to do with writing well? As for pennylynn's comment, I too, find it disappointing to see, information, I've already seen posted elsewhere, copied and pasted here on opp. However, that doesn't mean that those of us who sometimes copy and paste should cease completely, for others may be unaware of the subject being posted.

Delving a bit deeper, it's evident that there are many on this forum who resort to short, terse sentences that-seldom-if-ever reaches the length of a paragraph. Yeah, I'm aware; paragraphs have no set length, but....

While I don't expect a dissertation, a few well-written paragraphs of a moderate amount of words could enhance and provide a more interesting read.

There are some on this forum who possess a high degree of intelligence, and it shows in their writing. A degree of interest, plus anticipation is usually aroused when seeing a post from certain individuals.

Reply
Mar 30, 2017 16:25:24   #
Raylan Wolfe Loc: earth
 
pafret wrote:
On the things I can say in 800 words

Originally published at Overland



A writer has been asked to produce a romantic story for a magazine but, as the deadline approaches, finds himself 3000 words short of the required length. Luckily, he thinks of an expedient. He concludes the story with the following exchange between the two protagonists:

‘I love you.’
‘Oh, darling … say it again one thousand times!’


This old gag by Italian humourist Achille Campanile illustrates an apparent paradox: that we are so often asked to write not for as long as an idea or a story requires to be properly expressed, but to fill a given space, whether measured in words, pages or time. Campanile started his career in the age of the Futurists, who wrote plays such as Francesco Cangiullo’s Detonation (1915), in which a shot rings out across the empty stage, then the curtain falls: the spectators therefore would be left not only to reflect on the puzzling brevity of the performance, but also to find something else to do with the rest of their evening. (It is unclear whether the play was ever staged.)

Detonation underscores the fact that length is an aesthetic measurement: what you can do or say in a very short play is fundamentally different, not just in quantity but also in quality, from a play of more traditional duration. There is literally no entertainment if you don’t actually keep the audience occupied for a substantial amount of time. Conversely, Umberto Eco wrote memorably about the sublime prolixity of Alexandre Dumas, père, who got paid by the word and also based his commercial success on his ability to stretch his imagery to its breaking point.

Essays operate in a similar way. If we go back to the beginnings of the form, we find that Montaigne varied the time he spent on his subjects greatly. The average length of his 107 published essays is a little over 3000 words, but ranges from as little as 300 words (‘Of the Parsimony of the Ancients’) to a whopping 25,000 (‘Of Experience’). And although the essays tended to get longer over time, the overall pace of the three books is remarkably uniform, as if he really only dev**ed to each subject the attention it required, and length were wholly and exclusively a function of content.

Nowadays, mandated essay lengths balance the needs of publishers (or teachers) to have something substantial enough to publish (or assess), with the needs of writers to know the level of detail and depth of engagement required.

One can praise succinctness, and opine that more words don’t always equal better words. (Karl Kraus: ‘There are writers who can say in as few as twenty pages what it takes me as many as two lines to express.’) But what if you don’t have enough to say? The wikiHow page entitled ‘How to Make an Essay Appear Longer Than It Is’ contains many useful suggestions aimed at the US college student who has trouble completing an assignment, but its wisdom is more widely applicable and would have impressed old man Dumas himself.

Some of the suggestions are obvious enough. (Do not use contractions: just do not.) Others are more elaborate, such as encouraging the student to learn to use a highly formal, imagery-rich prose style, or to summarise the key point of each paragraph in a sentence before moving on to the next one (such signposting is almost a rule for good writing). But much greater heights are scaled by the typographical suggestions for the benefit of students who have to fill a certain number of pages, as opposed to reaching a certain number of words. These aren’t limited to the use of large titles, or remembering to mention the name of the instructor in the title page, or double-spacing the text, or using the maximum allowable font size, or even the biggest font for a given font size (it’s Lucida Sans Typewriter, in case you’re wondering, followed by Arial and Euphemia UCAS). The master trick is to make all full stops and commas a larger size than the rest of the text, which apparently can stretch a document a great deal while being scarcely noticeable.

‘Use bigger commas’ would be a terrific rallying cry for an advanced writing course, but we’re in the realm of the comic paradox again. In reality, the length of an essay usefully dictates its range of possible meanings. If I’m asked by Overland to write an 800-word column, as opposed to a 3000-word essay, it will affect not just my style but also my approach to the topic. In 800 words, I can only touch lightly upon a subject. Raise some questions but not fully articulate the answers. It is a length that is growing on me, as it were. And while it isn’t suited to all topics, it’s also true that not all topics that are suited to an 800-word column scale up well to a longer treatment.

With practice, naturally, you learn to pace yourself. Like an accomplished musician, you settle from the start on the right rhythm, which ensures you will never commit the cardinal sin of running out of words in the middle of a


Posted by Giovanni Tiso at 11:59 PM
On the things I can say in 800 words br br Origi... (show quote)


And this stupidity from a person, who has posted more new topics, than responses received!

http://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/user-topic-list?usernum=7542



Reply
Mar 30, 2017 16:42:20   #
Richard Rowland
 
Raylan Wolfe wrote:
And this stupidity from a person, who has posted more new topics, than responses received!

http://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/user-topic-list?usernum=7542


So, what have you contributed other than your snide comments, and picturesque postings that someone else created? Perhaps, if you have nothing original, or enlightening to offer, you should stay out of the conversation.

Reply
 
 
Mar 30, 2017 16:59:29   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
Raylan Wolfe wrote:
And this stupidity from a person, who has posted more new topics, than responses received!

http://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/user-topic-list?usernum=7542


Someone please kick Rayloon's turntable, he is stuck in an endless repeating post. How many hundred iterations of this have we seen. This person has zero to contribute, go out on the freeway and plaly on the white line, Rayon.

Reply
Mar 30, 2017 17:01:59   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
Richard Rowland wrote:
What does the demographics of New Zealand have to do with writing well? As for pennylynn's comment, I too, find it disappointing to see, information, I've already seen posted elsewhere, copied and pasted here on opp. However, that doesn't mean that those of us who sometimes copy and paste should cease completely, for others may be unaware of the subject being posted.

Delving a bit deeper, it's evident that there are many on this forum who resort to short, terse sentences that-seldom-if-ever reaches the length of a paragraph. Yeah, I'm aware; paragraphs have no set length, but....

While I don't expect a dissertation, a few well-written paragraphs of a moderate amount of words could enhance and provide a more interesting read.

There are some on this forum who possess a high degree of intelligence, and it shows in their writing. A degree of interest, plus anticipation is usually aroused when seeing a post from certain individuals.
What does the demographics of New Zealand have to ... (show quote)


I was responding to JW and added some amplification as to what the author was about, if the excess information offends you don't read it.

Reply
Mar 30, 2017 17:11:59   #
Richard Rowland
 
pafret wrote:
I was responding to JW and added some amplification as to what the author was about, if the excess information offends you don't read it.


Well, it didn't offend me, it's just that I thought we were about to get a lesson on how to be a better writer, and the post drifted off to the demographics of new Zeland, is all I was thinking.

Reply
Mar 30, 2017 17:28:06   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
Richard Rowland wrote:
Well, it didn't offend me, it's just that I thought we were about to get a lesson on how to be a better writer, and the post drifted off to the demographics of new Zeland, is all I was thinking.


Aha! Now I understand, I was just establishing this author's bona fides. I couldn't care less about New Zealand, what struck me is that I could change the names of their key players with ours and I essentially would not be able to tell the difference. It suggests there is something predestined in our current turmoil. This is all one big Kabuki Theater.

Reply
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