Both Dems and GOP have been bought by big money (Page 2): WTF? Huh? This is bullsh*t. The $50K pays approximately $7500 in taxes, and the $300K pays approx. $75000, they're not even...

OldSchool Loc: Moving to the Red State of Utah soon!

MarvinSussman wrote:

Income taxes are not the only taxes. There are loads of regressive taxes. The question to ask is: who gets taxed more out of disposable income. A household with 2 kids that earns $50K annually has about $2,000 of disposable income and gets taxed over half of it. The same household with $500,000 income has $300,000 of disposable income and doesn't get taxed any where near half of it.

WTF? Huh? This is bullsh*t. The $50K pays approximately $7500 in taxes, and the $300K pays approx. $75000, they're not even close!

OldSchool Loc: Moving to the Red State of Utah soon!

lpnmajor wrote:

There will be a concerted effort to defeat any such amendment. There are 100's of millions of dollars at stake. The entire economy of DC would collapse. There are far more people making money off of lobbying and such than just politicians. These people WILL fight back and it won't be pretty.

You're right on the money!
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

MarvinSussman wrote:

Income taxes are not the only taxes. There are loads of regressive taxes. The question to ask is: who gets taxed more out of disposable income. A household with 2 kids that earns $50K annually has about $2,000 of disposable income and gets taxed over half of it. The same household with $500,000 income has $300,000 of disposable income and doesn't get taxed any where near half of it.

...and you failed to address the issue - if the rich are in control why allow themselves to pay less income taxes than they do? - did you miss that on purpose?

..and as to your "regressive" taxes - am I to assume you refer to the payroll tax called FICA - which is alleged to pay for Soc Security entitlement?

Unintended Consequences

OldSchool wrote:

Are you going to include unions in this reform? They're nothing but legal money launders...take money from members in the form of dues and funnel it to the Democrat Party.

On the Move to Amend website under FAQ it states "Our perspective is that no "artificial entities" - non human beings - should have rights spelled out under the Constitution. This includes unions and non-profit corporations."

OldGeorge

It's sometimes hard to see the forest for the trees! The answer is a lot simpler than you think. It's actually the people who have the power, but refuse to use it! PLEASE, go take a look at my web site for the answer! www.thepoliticaledge.org Read the whole thing or you can download and save it to your computer, and spread the word!

Liberty Tree wrote:

Congress will never pass a law that will stop the big money flow. Congress will always leave loopholes to keep the cash cows producing.

Unintended Consequences

OldGeorge wrote:

It's sometimes hard to see the forest for the trees! The answer is a lot simpler than you think. It's actually the people who have the power, but refuse to use it! PLEASE, go take a look at my web site for the answer! www.thepoliticaledge.org Read the whole thing or you can download and save it to your computer, and spread the word!

Very interesting proposal! How would you keep every crackpot with an ax to grind from running for office?

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

Unintended Consequences wrote:

Very interesting proposal! How would you keep every crackpot with an ax to grind from running for office?

Hire "shooters" from SpecOps.

1OldGeezer

Unintended Consequences wrote:

Anyone who wants to get elected to Congress has to raise money. This has gotten way out of hand since the Supreme Court decided in the Citizens United case that corporations were persons and money constituted free speech. There are several groups working to address this issue. If we could get enough people on both sides to agree that "big money" undermines the democratic process. Check out Move to Amend to see what others are doing.

While we are discussing controlling the crooks, lets think about taking away some of their power to sell things, consider a new tax (get rid of the present tax system) where everyone pays based on what they buy; earmarks being made illegal in the legislative process; limit the federal governments power to that specified by the constitution...along with the attempt to limit the exchange of money in the political process.
1oldgeezer

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

1OldGeezer wrote:

While we are discussing controlling the crooks, lets think about taking away some of their power to sell things, consider a new tax (get rid of the present tax system) where everyone pays based on what they buy; earmarks being made illegal in the legislative process; limit the federal governments power to that specified by the constitution...along with the attempt to limit the exchange of money in the political process.
1oldgeezer

Who is going to force these changes? The point is, the congress is out of control. They do what they want and we pay them what they tell us to. They work when they want, retire on our dime when they get ready. Even when they get kicked out of office we'll pay them disability for something. No private business would ever allow the s**t from their employees, that we allow from ours.

Unintended Consequences

lpnmajor wrote:

Who is going to force these changes? The point is, the congress is out of control. They do what they want and we pay them what they tell us to. They work when they want, retire on our dime when they get ready. Even when they get kicked out of office we'll pay them disability for something. No private business would ever allow the s**t from their employees, that we allow from ours.

The only way to make this happen is through a constitutional convention. There are several groups woking to make this happen. My favorite is Move to Amend. See https.movetoamend.org

Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan

Unintended Consequences wrote:

Anyone who wants to get elected to Congress has to raise money. This has gotten way out of hand since the Supreme Court decided in the Citizens United case that corporations were persons and money constituted free speech. There are several groups working to address this issue. If we could get enough people on both sides to agree that "big money" undermines the democratic process. Check out Move to Amend to see what others are doing.

...you just figured this out?.....

BigNorsk

The only way to address the issue at this point is constitutional amendment. Pretending to try and do legislation is just playing politics to get the support of people, meaning v**es and money. It is like the right to life passing tons of bills only to have the courts throw them out instead of a constitutional amendment. As each bill is introduced, each court case is filed, and each court case is lost, the thing that can be counted on is fund raising.

Other groups are jealous and want to also use constant losing to raise money.

1OldGeezer

lpnmajor wrote:

Who is going to force these changes? The point is, the congress is out of control. They do what they want and we pay them what they tell us to. They work when they want, retire on our dime when they get ready. Even when they get kicked out of office we'll pay them disability for something. No private business would ever allow the s**t from their employees, that we allow from ours.

Ipnmajor,
I can't disagree with anything you said; however, we, as a nation, got here because of a deliberate effort by progressives to elect progressives; helped greatly by the "uninformed" v**ers. (Obama didn't attend college and get elected both to the senate and the presidency without help from behind the scenes progressives)

Our part (you and I as v**ers and anyone else we can bring with us) in this is to become informed well enough that we v**e properly. We need to elect enough people who think as you and I do to effect the changes needed. There are candidates out there (consider the fair tax advocates and many of the Tea Party candidates) that can start this trend in the right direction.

WE need to do our part. We only fail when we quit trying.
1oldgeezer

OldGeorge

There will always be a few crackpots in the mix, but remember that the incoming Legislators agree to the four conditions laid out in the Proposal, The 4th being to support legislation to implement Public websites where all negotiation and pending legislation can be viewed by the v****g public before it is acted upon, and the v**ers can respond with their Support or Disapproval. This should keep them honest when we have a public record of their performance!

Unintended Consequences wrote:

Very interesting proposal! How would you keep every crackpot with an ax to grind from running for office?

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

Lin19 wrote:

Amend is right, but I still say that all e******ns should be publicly funded with no outside money. The whole e******n could be done for less than the cost of matching funds last time.
It will be a big fight with the super rich who control the government and the country are not going to give up easily. In fact I do not believe the people can amend the constitution themselves, as it should be, it requires either congress or state legislatures. The people are left out in the cold.

Fighting Big Money is no easy chore.

For the most part it has to be take as an end run.

There is no way they can be taken head on.
They control too much of every thing.

Now they want to hide the money they spend to support e******ns.

We need to find ways to hurt those that support some that would do harm to the average person by hitting them in the pocketbook.

We need to support companies that support the general public best & avoid those that would cause us problems.