Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

There is a lot of back & forth disagreement between us.

Could we come to some agreement as to what the problems are that we face with out blaming any one?

I am not looking for solutions now just the problems.

Then we can look at each problem with greater depth before we offer solutions.

Make each problem it's own topic.

Like this maybe: "The problem as I see it is *******"

Homestead

Here's a list of 45 problems, as I see it:


[From "The Naked C*******t," by Cleon Skousen]

CURRENT C*******T GOALS (1963)

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of C*******t affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of C*******t domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free e******ns under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some C*******t leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the C*******t Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as t***smission belts for socialism and current C*******t propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student r**ts to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under C*******t attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American C*******t cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the C*******ts took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the C*******t apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. T***sfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose C*******t goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and r****ding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and i**********n are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. O*******w all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/c*******m/comgoals.htm

OldSchool Loc: Moving to the Red State of Utah soon!

Sounds like the Democrats and Obama's agenda.

katz Loc: washington

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

Here's part of the problem.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

Is it one problem?

Is it 45 problems?

I fail to see a direct line between 1963 & today with this line of reasoning.

Just how have these things you brought up have had any real affect on where we are to day.

The money has settled in to just a few hands & the general well being of the average person has gone down.

Who really has the power here & now?

So if you think that the left has had the power for the last 50 years & we are a c*******t country now, where is the prof?

Homestead

I hope your kidding, that you can look at the list of goals the c*******t set out to accomplish in 1963, and not see that they have achieved most of them.

And bear in mind, that if they have a goal to under mine something that existed in America, that something had to exist and it was good and had benefits for the country that was standing in their way of undermining and destroying America.

You cannot undermine or destroy a strong, educated and moral country. Therefore, it must be weakened, indoctrinated and made immoral.

How????? No citizens of any country will willingly destroy themselves and throw their lives and fortunes away!

So how does it happen?

And if people don't understand how they lost a war that they never knew was being waged against them, then just how will they get their country back to what they had?


But just in case you don't get it, I'll try to keep it simple.

So, How about listening to a soviet agent, who was responsible for undermining America and then defected to America to warn us of what was being done to us and why.

Yuri Bezmenov (former kgb) Psychological Warfare Subversion & Control of Western Society - Complete
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZnkULuWFDg

Bear in mind, that you can't fix anything until you understand that it is broke.
And your not going to know how to fix it, until you know how it got broken in the first place.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

Just how can so few have gained so much in this country if we are such a c*******t country?

Just how did those on the Right gain so much wealth & power?

Or have they been a part of making this country c*******t?

Just who did those things on the list that you find so bad?

Homestead

Don't waste my time if your not going to watch the video.

To make sure the link was still good and that it was the right link, I started the video while I responded to your first post. The video just ended and there is no way you could have watched it before this response.

The video answers most of your questions, if you took the time to watch it.

George Sorros is not a conservative.
Neither is,Bill Gates, the owner of Micro Soft.
The really big insurance companies that are making billions while people lose their health insurance are supporters of ObamaCare and Obama.

At some point in your life you need to educate yourself and stop letting the main stream media do your thinking for you.

Parrots are good for laughs and entertainment, nothing more.

Get your mouth out of the bird feeder.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

I gave you in a few words what I thought & how I felt about the issue.

I don't need to listen to some one ramble on for an hour to agree or disagree with you.

I am only interested in your views & how you feel about issues.

You don't have to tell we who you get your information from.
For the most part I take what you say as what you believe.

That is all I ask of you. I only want to present my views & feelings. If you like what I say okay. If you disagree just say so with respect to me & I will show respect for you views.

The hope is that there is common ground for us to get around to areas we can agree on.
I am aware of the fact that there is an endless supply of issues being discussed out there. & I avail my self on many.

Homestead

Feelings will not solve problems.

Understanding them will.
Knowing what we had, why, and how it worked, what we lost and why we lost it, is a start.

Recognizing, that those people and organizations that successfully destroyed those American institutions that worked, will not stand by and allow them to be rebuilt, is an absolute must.

Here's just one of their goals:

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as t***smission belts for socialism and current C*******t propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

So why was this so important to them?
What did they accomplish by achieving that goal?
How did they do it?

More importantly how are you going to undo it, especially when one of the very purposes is to indoctrinate the youth of America so they have no understanding or idea of the very principles this country was founded on, destroying any hope they have of saving themselves or their country.


If a doctor tells you to take an aspirin, to cure you headache, after a night of hard drinking, it may help you.

If the the headache is because of a tumour that is going to k**l you, masking the pain, is only going to put off the discovery of the problem.

This will not help you.

The common ground you seek is in the Constitution and the principles that this country was founded on.

MarvinSussman

Q1: Is our so-called “national debt” a serious debt, a burden that we must repay?
A1: No, It lacks both of those two essential qualities of a serious debt. It’s a “Debt In Name Only”, a “DINO” -

1. A serious debt is a burden. OUR DINO IS NOT NOW AND NEVER WILL BE THE TAXPAYER’S BURDEN.

The DINO is the total value of all issued and still maturing treasuries. By calling the DINO “unsustainable”, Wall Street con artists have panicked politicians, journalists, and the public with a h**x designed to privatize Social Security and Medicare and make a fortune in commissions. But, in a virtual rollover, it is the buyers of new issues, not the taxpayers, who pay for redemption of the mature treasuries. In every auction, more bonds are demanded than are available. Auction winners get the safest, most liquid US dollar instruments; the losers are stuck with bank risk. If it were ever necessary, the Fed could create an artificial demand for treasuries by buying large quantities in the open market with cost-free keystrokes. The taxpayer is NEVER burdened but almost all v**ers have swallowed the h**x!

Our Treasury does not borrow money like a home-buyer undertaking a mortgage. It is a custodian of funds, like a bank accepting money offered for certificates of deposit. While a bank with too many bad loans can certainly have too many maturing CDs, our non-lending Treasury cannot have too many maturing bonds unless its deficit spending is causing harmful inflation. And that happens ONLY in a war or emergency requiring rationing. It NEVER happens during a recession. During prosperity, banks are ALWAYS the main cause of inflation, creating over $6 of credit for every $1 of deficit spending. To curb inflation, let’s regulate the banks before restricting spending on infrastructure.

2. A serious debt must be repaid. OUR DINO WILL NEVER BE REPAID AND SHOULD NEVER BE REPAID.

Only a budget surplus can reduce the DINO. Since Truman, no President has reduced the DINO and no annual budget surplus is now in sight. Indeed, to supply enough treasuries, the ONLY risk-free instruments used for trade collateral, insurance, pensions, bank reserves, etc., OUR DINO MUST GROW WITH OUR ECONOMY. In fact, deflation and depression will hit us hard unless large budget deficits replace the cash that we are now exporting.

Q2: Could savers make a “run” on Treasury bonds?
A2: Yes, when savers can get risk-free returns from the Wall Street casino or from GM bonds, Illinois bonds, or Detroit bonds. Safety is not everything. Safety is the ONLY thing! That’s why the whole world relies on US bonds.

Q3. Could savers stop buying Treasury bonds?
A3. Sure, when nobody needs risk-free interest for trade collateral, insurance, pensions, bank reserves, etc., etc.

Q4: Could savers prefer foreign sovereign bonds?
A4: Yes, indeed! So far, almost two thirds of the world’s reserve currencies are in US dollars and about half of all US Treasury bonds are held by foreigners. But if China’s infrastructure and productivity become better than ours, its sovereign bonds could become safer than ours. But that could happen only if US v**ers worry more about the DINO than they worry about our falling bridges, failing schools, leaking sewers, aging power grids, etc., etc., etc.

Q5: Won’t we need higher tax rates to pay for infrastructure?
A5: Taxes only counteract inflation. Congress never spends tax revenue. The IRS destroys all of its receipts, actually shredding bills and melting coins for scrap. For spending, Congress creates new money out of thin air (just like your corner bank creates loans), deposits it in the Treasury, and writes checks. Then the Treasury auctions bonds to finance the deficit, which is limited only by Congress and NEVER by tax revenue. The only rational reason to restrict deficit spending is the onset of harmful inflation. Until then, Congress can and must spend freely on our DINO’s annual debt interest expense and on much-needed infrastructure. Every day, you fill your kitchen sink with water AND you prevent it from overflowing. Why can’t Congress fill our economy with money AND prevent inflation?

Q6: How can increasing the DINO be good for the economy?
A6: Every spent federal dollar not repossessed by the IRS is saved by the private sector. Our annual budget deficit is exactly equal to the annual increase in private sector savings. YES! DEFICITS = SAVINGS! No deficits, no savings! A tax deficit is a savings surplus. It is money left on the table for the savers by Uncle Sam because he didn’t need it to prevent harmful inflation and because consumers need it to consume. We do not have a “national debt”. We have a “national savings”. The bad “Debt Clock” is really the good “Savings Clock”. How can we have too much savings?

Since bank loans must be repaid with interest and cash is flowing to China, a tax deficit / savings surplus is the ONLY savings source that can sustain our economy. We need to DOUBLE the DINO / total savings to return it to the World War II level that was followed by 35 years of prosperity without harmful inflation even with very high taxes. Our (DINO + total bank deposits) / GDP ratio is less than half of the comparable figure for China. Our M2 (money supply) / GDP ratio is half of Switzerland’s ratio and one fourth of Hong Kong’s ratio. We should be matching them.

Q7: How much should Congress tax and spend?
A7: Ideally, Congress should tax just enough to prevent harmful inflation and should spend almost enough to cause full employment (and harmful inflation). Result: low unemployment and low inflation.

Instead, Congress, bribed by Wall Street, taxes as little as possible, enriching the rich, and spends as little as possible, impoverishing the rest of us by restricting the DINO / total savings. Just as quacks k**led George Washington by bleeding his “bad blood”, Congress is destroying our younger generations by reducing (possibly to zero!) our annual budget deficits / private sector savings increase / consumer demand. And, by bribing Congress into austerity, the Wall Street charlatans are deliberately nursing a huge army of unemployed labor to suppress the wages and working conditions of the middle class.

Result: recessions, high unemployment, an army of unemployed labor, a growing under-class, a scared work force, declining wages and consumer demand: a downward spiral of despair threatening deflation and depression. Growing ine******y will create a land of slums and gated communities: Hell on Earth!

Austerity today deprives our grandchildren of infrastructure that would surely enrich and possibly save their lives. We must educate all of them now and employ all of our resources to build the infrastructure that they will need when they become parents. Let’s follow Presidents Lincoln (railways, telegraph, land-grant colleges), Theodore Roosevelt (National Parks, Panama Canal), and FDR (TVA, PWA, WPA, etc.)

Q8: How should one v**e?
A8: V**e only for someone who NEVER EVER worries about the DINO and who ALWAYS worries about Americans looking for work and reluctantly drawing benefits forever instead of building infrastructure ”…to promote the general Welfare and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity…”

Q9: “I have to balance my budget. Why doesn’t Congress balance its budget?”
A9: If you could legally print money in your attic, why would you balance your budget? Congress only needs to balance full employment against harmful inflation. Why is something so simple so hard to see?
To restore and maintain prosperity, v**ers must be convinced that Congress can and must spend heavily on much-needed infrastructure, limited ONLY by the onset of harmful inflation. To help convince the v**ers, please copy and distribute this message.

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

The problem is, no one wants to take personal responsibility for anything. Blaming others is all we know how to do anymore. For the last 40 years ( at least ) the only political discourse has been about how the other party is screwing things up. When there was a republican President, republican majority in the house and senate, democrats did nothing but block, disrupt and complain. Now there is a democratic President and senate majority and republicans in the house do nothing but block, disrupt and complain.

The bulk of postings, on this forum, are about how the other person is wrong, the other party is at fault. Anytime realistic, common sense and non partisan solutions are submitted, the response is a labeling contest. L*****t, liberal, right wing nut, c*******t etc. I have posted judgmental and sarcastic comments and get responses. I have also posted non judgmental, sensible comments and gotten none. That is telling. If no argument is offered, few have any interest in discussion.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

Reply to Marvin

I see it also as not something to lose sleep over.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

I have looked at what Congress as done through the years.

If it was for the monied interests things got done quickly.

If it was in the best interest of the general public things didn't get done with out a lot of argument. It seems to have taken time to figure out how the monied interest could get money out of it.