I can't figure out why the national debt is a problem. Treasury bonds mature every week and Uncle Sam has to come up with the money for redemption. But there's also an auction every week and enough money comes in to come up with the money for redemption. And there's always enough buyers because the Fed is out there buying up bonds with cost-free keystrokes.
Can anyone help me?
MarvinSussman wrote:
I can't figure out why the national debt is a problem. Treasury bonds mature every week and Uncle Sam has to come up with the money for redemption. But there's also an auction every week and enough money comes in to come up with the money for redemption. And there's always enough buyers because the Fed is out there buying up bonds with cost-free keystrokes.
Can anyone help me?
If you sell bonds to pay for bonds you have to buy back you are putting off for real payment indefinitely. What happens if treasury is no longer allowed to sell bonds? We are making credit card payments using another credit card. Sounds like a gigantic Ponzi scheme to me.
alex
Loc: michigan now imperial beach californa
MarvinSussman wrote:
I can't figure out why the national debt is a problem. Treasury bonds mature every week and Uncle Sam has to come up with the money for redemption. But there's also an auction every week and enough money comes in to come up with the money for redemption. And there's always enough buyers because the Fed is out there buying up bonds with cost-free keystrokes.
Can anyone help me?
if you are serious you are beyond help
MarvinSussman wrote:
I can't figure out why the national debt is a problem. Treasury bonds mature every week and Uncle Sam has to come up with the money for redemption. But there's also an auction every week and enough money comes in to come up with the money for redemption. And there's always enough buyers because the Fed is out there buying up bonds with cost-free keystrokes.
Can anyone help me?
The National debt is what holds the average person in bondage.
That is where those of us with few assets are. S***es to those that hold the bonds & collect interest.
lpnmajor wrote:
If you sell bonds to pay for bonds you have to buy back you are putting off for real payment indefinitely. What happens if treasury is no longer allowed to sell bonds? We are making credit card payments using another credit card. Sounds like a gigantic Ponzi scheme to me.
When you sell new bonds to pay for mature bonds, the mature bonds are paid for and retired. Period. You don't have to pay for them again. No Ponzi scheme.
Congress makes the Treasury sell bonds to cover a tax deficit Every spent federal dollar not repossessed by the IRS is saved by the private sector. Our annual budget deficit is exactly equal to the annual increase in private sector savings. YES! DEFICITS = SAVINGS! No deficits, no savings! A tax deficit is a savings surplus. It is money left on the table for the savers by Uncle Sam because he did not need it to prevent harmful inflation and because consumers need it to consume. We do not have a national debt. We have a national savings. The bad Debt Clock is really the good Savings Clock. How can we have too much savings?
Uncle Sam (US) has to spend a LOT of money on bridges or else we will need amphibian vehicles and Detroit is not up to that job.
Floyd Brown wrote:
The National debt is what holds the average person in bondage.
That is where those of us with few assets are. S***es to those that hold the bonds & collect interest.
Revenue/Spending ratio is lower and deficit spending is higher than ever before in your lifetime. People with few assets get benefits from federal deficit spending.
Every spent federal dollar not repossessed by the IRS is saved by the private sector. Our annual budget deficit is exactly equal to the annual increase in private sector savings. YES! DEFICITS = SAVINGS! No deficits, no savings! A tax deficit is a savings surplus. It is money left on the table for the savers by Uncle Sam because he did not need it to prevent harmful inflation and because consumers need it to consume. We do not have a national debt. We have a national savings. The bad Debt Clock is really the good Savings Clock. How can we have too much savings?
alex wrote:
if you are serious you are beyond help
Congress does not use or need our taxes for spending. The IRS repossesses enough federal spending to prevent harmful inflation and then destroys every cent of it. (Cash payments are shred and the pulp is sold). For spending, Congress creates new money out of thin air, deposits it in the Treasury, writes checks, and makes the Treasury auction bonds to finance the deficit, which is limited only by Congress and not by the availability of tax revenue.
Every spent federal dollar not repossessed by the IRS is saved by the private sector. Our annual budget deficit is exactly equal to the annual increase in private sector savings. YES! DEFICITS = SAVINGS! No deficits, no savings! A tax deficit is a savings surplus. It is money left on the table for the savers by Uncle Sam because he did not need it to prevent harmful inflation and because consumers need it to consume. We do not have a national debt. We have a national savings. The bad Debt Clock is really the good Savings Clock. How can we have too much savings?
Since bank loans must be repaid with interest and hard cash is moving to China, budget deficits (surpluses!) are the ONLY savings source that can sustain our economy. We need to DOUBLE our DINO / savings to return it to the World War II level that was followed by 35 years of prosperity without harmful inflation, even with very high tax rates. Our (DINO + total bank deposits) / GDP ratio is less than half of the comparable figure for China. Our M2 (money supply) / GDP ratio is half of Switzerlands ratio and one quarter of Hong Kongs ratio. Too much savings?
MarvinSussman wrote:
When you sell new bonds to pay for mature bonds, the mature bonds are paid for and retired. Period. You don't have to pay for them again. No Ponzi scheme.
Congress makes the Treasury sell bonds to cover a tax deficit Every spent federal dollar not repossessed by the IRS is saved by the private sector. Our annual budget deficit is exactly equal to the annual increase in private sector savings. YES! DEFICITS = SAVINGS! No deficits, no savings! A tax deficit is a savings surplus. It is money left on the table for the savers by Uncle Sam because he did not need it to prevent harmful inflation and because consumers need it to consume. We do not have a national debt. We have a national savings. The bad Debt Clock is really the good Savings Clock. How can we have too much savings?
Uncle Sam (US) has to spend a LOT of money on bridges or else we will need amphibian vehicles and Detroit is not up to that job.
When you sell new bonds to pay for mature bonds, t... (
show quote)
Pay off a mature bond by selling new one that is the definition of a Ponzi scheme. There is no savings. When you OWE money, it's a debt and we OWE social security over 1 trillion dollars for the bonds it holds alone.
MarvinSussman wrote:
Revenue/Spending ratio is lower and deficit spending is higher than ever before in your lifetime. People with few assets get benefits from federal deficit spending.
Every spent federal dollar not repossessed by the IRS is saved by the private sector. Our annual budget deficit is exactly equal to the annual increase in private sector savings. YES! DEFICITS = SAVINGS! No deficits, no savings! A tax deficit is a savings surplus. It is money left on the table for the savers by Uncle Sam because he did not need it to prevent harmful inflation and because consumers need it to consume. We do not have a national debt. We have a national savings. The bad Debt Clock is really the good Savings Clock. How can we have too much savings?
Revenue/Spending ratio is lower and deficit spendi... (
show quote)
Okay I hear you that it is savings not debt. The interest is owed by the many to the few that hold the savings.
How is that different than what I said?
Floyd Brown wrote:
Okay I hear you that it is savings not debt. The interest is owed by the many to the few that hold the savings.
How is that different than what I said?
Nothing, marvin is obviously a wall street person. Their reality is 1 universe away from ours. Over there $1 is worth $30 in virtual money.
lpnmajor wrote:
Pay off a mature bond by selling new one that is the definition of a Ponzi scheme. There is no savings. When you OWE money, it's a debt and we OWE social security over 1 trillion dollars for the bonds it holds alone.
It's a Ponzi scheme only if there is nobody buying the newly issued bonds. Deficit spending now is greater than ever and will always grow. Therefore, there will always be more newly issued bonds than retired bonds.
And there will be more than enough buyers for the new bonds because the 1% with the money always need a safe place to keep it. When you have a billion dollars, the FDIC limit of $250,000 does not make you feel safe enough.
MarvinSussman wrote:
It's a Ponzi scheme only if there is nobody buying the newly issued bonds. Deficit spending now is greater than ever and will always grow. Therefore, there will always be more newly issued bonds than retired bonds.
And there will be more than enough buyers for the new bonds because the 1% with the money always need a safe place to keep it. When you have a billion dollars, the FDIC limit of $250,000 does not make you feel safe enough.
See? alternate universe. So Bernie maddof only got caught because he ran out of new money? Still a criminal enterprise. I will do research to see if there is some way to bring wall street and the feds back home.
lpnmajor wrote:
See? alternate universe. So Bernie maddof only got caught because he ran out of new money? Still a criminal enterprise. I will do research to see if there is some way to bring wall street and the feds back home.
Rich people have been buying US Treasury bonds for 100 years. They are in every pension, insurance contract, trade collateral, bank reserve, etc.
Who pays for the redemption of mature bonds? Its not the taxpayers! Its the buyers of newly-issued treasuries who pay for the redemption of mature treasuries. Its equivalent to a simple bond rollover done every day by bond-owners. In every auction, more treasuries are demanded than are available from the supply of new issues. Auction winners get the safest, most liquid US dollar instruments; the losers are stuck with bank risk. If it were ever necessary, the Fed could even create an artificial demand for treasuries by buying them in the open market with a few keystrokes.
MarvinSussman wrote:
When you sell new bonds to pay for mature bonds, the mature bonds are paid for and retired. Period. You don't have to pay for them again. No Ponzi scheme.
Congress makes the Treasury sell bonds to cover a tax deficit Every spent federal dollar not repossessed by the IRS is saved by the private sector. Our annual budget deficit is exactly equal to the annual increase in private sector savings. YES! DEFICITS = SAVINGS! No deficits, no savings! A tax deficit is a savings surplus. It is money left on the table for the savers by Uncle Sam because he did not need it to prevent harmful inflation and because consumers need it to consume. We do not have a national debt. We have a national savings. The bad Debt Clock is really the good Savings Clock. How can we have too much savings?
Uncle Sam (US) has to spend a LOT of money on bridges or else we will need amphibian vehicles and Detroit is not up to that job.
When you sell new bonds to pay for mature bonds, t... (
show quote)
Marvin-wh**ever that is you are smoking needs to be shared so we can all be oblivious to the facts. Simply put,"When your outgo exceeds your income your upkeep will be your downfall". What should we do, curb spending now or wait until the interest on the debt is insurmountable and declare bankruptcy ? What happens if we keep printing billions every month ? How long will it take for existing currency to become virtually worthless if printing continues ad infinitum ? I am not an economist but common sense tells me that we need a budget and spending needs to be confined to what is budgeted. This off budget frivolous spending needs to stop. Good Luck America !!!
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