KiraSeer2016

Some of you may have read the exchange between old salty and me on my topic "Putin is Right; America is Wrong": http://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-77830-1.html

Salty opined: "There would never have been a World War 11 if the USSR had not signed a treaty with Hitler..."

My final comment was this:

"KiraSeer2016:

'saltwind 78 wrote:
Kira, Carry on discussion like a lady. I don't believe calling people that disagree with you " punk " doesn't impress anybody. You have not convinced me that Vlad Putin is anything than what he appears to be, a vicious dictator that has imperial ambitions in Eastern Europe, western Asia, and Syria. I'm willing to bet my last greenback that the huge majority of Americans agree with me. When the Russian Federation changes it's behavior, I will be only to happy to reassess my opinion of him!'

"KiraSeer replied: 'I'll never be able to convince you. That is why I do not talk to you. Your mind seems to shut a door when it comes time to engage in rational thought. When you have figured out just why that is, I may "condescend" to refer to you.
In the meantime, mull on this: I wonder if you are Polish, or descended from Polish immigrants, since you seem to, as some Polish leaders do, hang on to feelings of resentment and ill-will towards Russia, both under Stalin and perhaps throughout history (forgetting that Poland in most cases has been the aggressor in history).
I may, however, begin a topic on the Stalin-Hitler Non-Aggression Pact, and how, contrary to your "received wisdom", the pact actually contributed to winning World War II, not starting it.
Please don't reply to this comment.' "


Well, salty, your total ignorance of modern European history is appalling. Your assertion that the Stalin-Hitler Non-Aggression Pact started World War II is beyond absurd; it is insane.

This is what started World War II: Mein Kampf, written by Hitler while he was imprisoned, and published in 1925. An insane concept in the mind of a "deranged paperhanger" [as David Gerrold referred to him]. Hitler dedicated a full chapter titled "Easter Orientation or Eastern Policy" outlining the need for "Lebensraum for Germany and the German people." In this chapter, Hitler related that "Germany must look for expansion to Russia and especially to the Baltic States. And that "No alliance with Russia can be tolerated. To wage war together with Russia against the West would be criminal, for the aim of the Soviets is the triumph of international Judaism."

Need I remind you that Hitler considered the Slavic peoples subhuman? [By the way, in case you don't know it, Hitler rose to power, not only through the application of force, but by appealing to the guilt (war guilt) in the souls of the German people, an otherwise decent people. Just as Ovomit and the Left attempt to use "the white man's burden"---guilt, to remain in power and install Socialism.]

Churchill had read Mein Kampf, and knew that when Hitler came to lead the Third Reich he would do exactly what he said he would do. I believe, though I have no proof, that Stalin read Mein Kampf and knew it as well.

The following are se******ns from "The Last Lion", Vol. II: "Alone", a biography of Churchill, the years 1932-1940, by William Manchester, pp. 443-461:

1. "On April 15 [1939] therefore, the Soviets received formal proposals from Whitehall and the Quai. [British and French foreign offices]. They found them disappointing. The British merely asked Russia to follow their example and affirm the independence of Poland and Rumania. The French had wanted more. They had proposed that Britain, France, and the Soviet Union come to one another's aid should Germany make war on any one of them, but Chamberlain and Halifax weren't prepared to go that far.
"Litvinov [the Soviet Foreign Commissar] wanted them to go much further. The following Monday he rocked the chancelleries of Europe by handing Sir William Seeds, the British ambassador in Moscow, a formal proposal which, if it succeeded, would assure that any Wehrmacht offensive in the east would be met not only by Poland but also by the much larger resources of the Soviet Union, including the Red Army."

2, "...as Churchill perceived, there was method in Stalin's dementia. In his own twisted way he was a patriot; like Winston he saw the peril in the Reich and wanted his country to survive it. That was his end. Any means was acceptable to him. He was quietly searching for one that would work." [See this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGIl5EeGfyU]

3. "The chief stumbling block [to the burgeoning triple alliance---France, Britain, the Soviets] [Churchill] knew, was Poland. The Poles were adamant that Russian troops never be permitted to cross their territory, not even, say, if Germany attacked France and the Red Army lunged westward to support the French. Beck and his fellow officers in Warsaw not only persisted in regarding the Russians as lepers; they resented anyone who suggested that they be treated as anything else."

4. Churchill wrote that "Ten or twelve days have passed since the Russian offer was made. The British people...have a right, in conjunction with the French Republic, to call upon Poland not to place obstacles in the way of a common cause."

Stalin's offer was rejected; he then entered into the infamous Non-Aggression Pact in order to buy time for the fight of his life (and the lives of the Russian people.) There was no other choice. In addition, among the terms of the Pact, was an exchange of Russian grains and foodstuffs for German industrial equipment. Stalin needed time for pr********n. The Pact was a stall, on both sides, and didn't last long.

Before you denounce Putin, you might read about the Siege of Leningrad and what the Russians endured in order to help defeat Hitler.

"By mid-July 1941, all that remained was for the Russians to give up and accept their fate under Hitler, just like Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, Luxembourg, Holland, France, Yugoslavia, and Greece.
But the Russians kept fighting." Go here: http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/defeat/attack-russia.htm

If, salty, you and others persist in your illogical feelings of resentment, you may very well see a re-enactment of events I'd like to believe you are attempting to avoid.

Any questions?

Oh, and by the way, I have explained to you many times the t***h about the Donbas and Crimea. Are you telling me I am wrong?

cesspool jones Loc: atlanta

This is why the far-left is beyond fantasy. They are delusional and dangerous and the GARDEN NEEDS WEEDING

KiraSeer2016

You're referring to salty, of course.

cesspool jones Loc: atlanta

many others also on OPP.

KiraSeer2016

What can we do?

To turn it back on Lenin, who wrote: "What Is To Be Done" in 1901.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Yep, Churchill tried to warn the world about Hitler and nobody was listening. In the conclusion of his epic treatise on the Second World War, Churchill wrote: "The malice of the wicked was reinforced by the weakness of the virtuous; it was the failure of the democratic states to act together before the monster was fully grown. In the beginning, when it counted most, leadership failed."

Where is Winnie when you need him?

KiraSeer2016

He's in Russia. He's Russian now.

What volume of that work are you quoting? I'm trying to find a copy of "The Gathering Storm". No luck so far. Gotta go to Amazon, I guess.

Churchill paraphrasing Edmund Burke, who said: "Evil can only triumph when good men do nothing." I wonder sometimes, who is the more evil, those who work evil, or the cowards who will not stop them when they can.

sweetlips

where was old Churchill when good old boy Stalin was murdering untold millions of his own people?
Stalin was worried about Hitler & N**i? I think if you look, the c*******t was in Germany trying to turn Germany into a c*******t state long before Hitler came to power, and they just liked a hair of doing it.
And guess what, the leaders of this c*******t movement was almost all jews, as were the founders of c*******m, so Hitler was the one that was worried about russia and the c*******t. As far as i know there was no N**i trying to take over the c*******t government at that time. You Think Hitler didn't know what had already happened in russia, about the Holodomor,about all the Gulags, the c*******t youth, the hundreds of s***e labor camps, about the jews that ran many of these camps, do a little research

KiraSeer2016

No one liked Stalin. Churchill and Stalin knew what Hitler was going to do. Where did you learn to think? In one of the Left-wing propaganda machines formerly known as American universities?

Please do not respond to my comments unless you have something thoughtful and intelligent to say.

cesspool jones Loc: atlanta

Who put the garlic in the glue? Who called the irishman a jew?

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

WWII was actually started by - WWI - which was started by a family squabble. Every Monarch of every major power in Europe was related to each other, including Czar Nicolas, and Kaiser Wilhelm, not to mention the English King. The oligarch wannabe's were fed up with the monarchs strangle hold and "their decadent and despotic ways". THEY wanted to be decadent and despotic, but not being Royal, had no chance. WWI was their way in. While the monarchs emptied their treasuries to fight each other, the oligarch wannabe's happily t***sferred that treasury into their own vaults - while blaming the monarchs for the wholesale slaughter of it's boys and starvation of it's girls and the elderly.

At the close of WWI ( or shortly thereafter ), the Kaiser was alive but exiled, the Czar was dead and his entire family - k**led by Stalin himself ( despite his claims to the contrary ) - Europe was broken up, Germany destroyed and forced to kiss French ass. Their former Kaiser is still alive living high off the hog, supported by his cousins, while they starve in the streets and treated like dogs. What's not to resent? Stalin, meanwhile, k**ls his way to the top and on a mountain of his own people, proclaims himself the supreme leader - and keeps on k*****g. Hitler feels the pulsing resentment of his people - and takes advantage of it, until he too proclaims himself supreme leader. What could possibly go wrong, with two disappointed madmen, who can't hold a regular job, becoming decadent, despotic world leaders, who have visions of worldwide Empires?

From the very beginning of the revolution, there has been TWO versions of c*******m in play in the East. The first affected the masses and the lowest echelon of the party, which said that everything belonged to "the people", including their lives - to be expended how the party elite saw fit, which were the beneficiaries of the second version. These high party officials and the new oligarchs reached an accommodation - with Stalin - who was their King in all but name. It is a toss up on who k**led the most Russians leading up to and during WWII, Stalin or Hitler. It is also unclear how many "undesirables" Stalin k**led himself, for which Hitler took the blame, but it IS clear that Stalin did take advantage of the situation to clean a little more house.

After the fall of the USSR, there were disaffected, dissatisfied folks in Russia, who felt that they were shafted and had their glory stolen from them. Putin was one such fellow. Putin felt the pulse of his people's resentment - and took advantage of it, until he proclaims himself supreme leader. Sound familiar yet? There are oligarchs here in the USA, that chaff under the restrictions of democracy, fondly wishing for the good old days of cold war and Putin is happy to oblige. Our Government is essentially clueless, each successive generation of bureaucrats thinking they are more clever than their predecessors - who cannot see the traps they constantly fall into. We are simply repeating an older paradigm and to determine who is behind it, we need only look to the past and see who benefited THEN, because the newest beneficiaries won't be much different.

The 21st century "monarchs" empty their treasuries fighting each other, empty them right into the vaults of the oligarchs, who will live high on the hog no matter what - while ALL the people starve and are treated like dogs. There are no "good" actors in any of these stories.

cesspool jones Loc: atlanta

was spock and kirk involved?

sweetlips

maybe if you really did some research, you might have something intelligent to post, the left wingers were on Stalins side, not me

Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX

Just a thought, have you ever tried praying for the leaders of these countries first. Pray thankful prayers when times are good but be careful because that's when you get too p***eful and ask God for forgiveness when you sin. God knows when you are sincere or lying. Good or bad, it's up to us to walk upright no matter what is going on. God is always good... all the time.. he proved it by sending Jesus as our redeemer... because we couldn't redeem ourselves. God is the boss, Satan rebelled and was cast out of heaven to Earth and has been trying to destroy the entire human race ever since. God knows everything because he created everything (even Satan) who also had free choice to obey or rebel.

Satan didn't want humans to ever judge him (but that's God's plan) and it will happen. There can never be true love without the option to be unloving. Why do you think God sent the flood? Because He's mean... NO... because Satan defiled the Earth by deceiving Adam and Eve, defiling the human and animal gene pool... and God could only find 8 people whose DNA hadn't been altered. Satan is at it again too... he has never ever really stopped. But as in the beginning, so it will be at the end... we are aborting out own children for convience which is really just a sacrifice to Satan, trying to clone humans and animals, altering our food with GMOs, opening portals to hell with CERN... etc. Read your Bible (I suggest the King James version) and wish I knew Hebrew.

Satan and the angels with him can not be k**led because they are spirit beings, their offspring are half human and half spirit beings and were the giants (all those Greek myths have some t***h in them) and that's why David slew Goliath and Josuha was told to k**l the ITES and their livestock.There are pyramids all over the Earth and humans didn't build them. There are also humans who willingly serve/worship Satan because they think he will win... he won't... but some people want the money, power, sex, etc. and will do anything to get it. God says Satan is the father of lies who seeks to lie, k**l and destroy.

Once again to save all flesh from being destroyed God/Jesus will intervene in the last day and with just a word will put an end to Satan and all his followers. I could go further but you have enough t***h to start seeking to know God/Jesus and "His story" and His plans for you and what you need to do to be redeemed/saved from hell. Chose wisely. Your eternity depends on it.

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

No, that's what gets people into trouble - melding reality and fantasy together. When reading many textbooks and other material written by "experts" in a given field, especially history, I see them employing such esoteric sk**ls as mind reading, where they tell us what the characters were thinking at the time they did wh**ever they did, often ignoring the persons own words or the words of eyewitnesses.

World leaders fortunate enough to have competent people around them, capable of telling them "no!" when necessary and forcing them to listen, are more often recorded in history as "successful" leaders, if not hero's. Those that do not allow competence anywhere near them ( Stalin ) or who do not allow anyone to naysay them ( Hitler ), are NEVER recorded as successful - in the end.