God and Dark Matter
Jul 9, 2016 22:50:48 #
Atheists say there is no God. There are historical records like the Bible concerning the existence, the nature of God, and the works of God. However, this is not scientific proof. The miracles in the Bible cannot be verified. Okay.
In the present there is no physical way to detect God. No one has built a God detector. Anyone who believes that they hear or see God could be a liar or delusional. So nobody can prove that they have seen, heard, or touched God. He does not give off detectable heat, light, radiation, etc. So is that not proof positive he does not exist? Better yet, is that not proof that he cannot exist?
And yet millions and millions of believers persist in their view that not only does he exist, they feel his presence. Human beings for all of their intellectual conceit are in the end, weak, scared, powerless, little beings who are subject to the same whims of chance as ocean plankton. Currents, freak accidents, and twists of fate mean far more than our own efforts. We feel the effects of powerful forces beyond our control.
So as we feel and react to the outside forces that determine our lives, why can't these forces be the work of God? If God does not exist then all of these forces are purely random. Besides we can detect the forces we feel. We can measure them. We measure heat, light, radiation, moisture, gravity, kinetic force, and electrical potential, so we know they exist. We say we can prove those things. We may say we feel the presence of God. Things happen to us that cannot be explained by random chance, but we cannot scientifically prove any of it.
And yet we believe that God exists. That he loves us, even though he allows bad things to happen to good people. We feel his love and power yet there is no way to prove it. The Atheists mock us for believing in something that cannot be seen, heard, touched, or scientifically detected. They only believe in science. They do not believe in things not detectable or provable, and yet they do.
Atheists, great scientists that they are, believe in something unprovable, unmeasurable, something that is only an idea. Dark Matter. It cannot be detected or proven. It is a theory to explain the unexplainable. By today's understandings of physics the galaxies and stars in their current formations are impossible, yet there they are.
When scientists run computer models the galaxies and their stars all fly away from their current positions. The only way to account for what happens is an extra gravity holding it all together. The detectable matter within the galaxies does not have enough gravity to do that. So to account for this mysterious gravity they have come up with a theory of dark matter. There is also a bending of light from distant stars that is consistent with gravity from dark matter.
So the only scientific proof of undetectable dark matter is the presence of unexplained gravity in the universe. Maybe it is true or maybe the scientists can't add. God is undetectable too by known scientific methods. Maybe our science is not that good.
But you say we have extra gravity holding the galaxies together, so that is proof of dark matter. Where is God's " gravity "? I say in a purely random universe we would not ever exist. Like the invisible dark matter holding the universe together the invisible hand of God keeps everything else from flying apart.
In the present there is no physical way to detect God. No one has built a God detector. Anyone who believes that they hear or see God could be a liar or delusional. So nobody can prove that they have seen, heard, or touched God. He does not give off detectable heat, light, radiation, etc. So is that not proof positive he does not exist? Better yet, is that not proof that he cannot exist?
And yet millions and millions of believers persist in their view that not only does he exist, they feel his presence. Human beings for all of their intellectual conceit are in the end, weak, scared, powerless, little beings who are subject to the same whims of chance as ocean plankton. Currents, freak accidents, and twists of fate mean far more than our own efforts. We feel the effects of powerful forces beyond our control.
So as we feel and react to the outside forces that determine our lives, why can't these forces be the work of God? If God does not exist then all of these forces are purely random. Besides we can detect the forces we feel. We can measure them. We measure heat, light, radiation, moisture, gravity, kinetic force, and electrical potential, so we know they exist. We say we can prove those things. We may say we feel the presence of God. Things happen to us that cannot be explained by random chance, but we cannot scientifically prove any of it.
And yet we believe that God exists. That he loves us, even though he allows bad things to happen to good people. We feel his love and power yet there is no way to prove it. The Atheists mock us for believing in something that cannot be seen, heard, touched, or scientifically detected. They only believe in science. They do not believe in things not detectable or provable, and yet they do.
Atheists, great scientists that they are, believe in something unprovable, unmeasurable, something that is only an idea. Dark Matter. It cannot be detected or proven. It is a theory to explain the unexplainable. By today's understandings of physics the galaxies and stars in their current formations are impossible, yet there they are.
When scientists run computer models the galaxies and their stars all fly away from their current positions. The only way to account for what happens is an extra gravity holding it all together. The detectable matter within the galaxies does not have enough gravity to do that. So to account for this mysterious gravity they have come up with a theory of dark matter. There is also a bending of light from distant stars that is consistent with gravity from dark matter.
So the only scientific proof of undetectable dark matter is the presence of unexplained gravity in the universe. Maybe it is true or maybe the scientists can't add. God is undetectable too by known scientific methods. Maybe our science is not that good.
But you say we have extra gravity holding the galaxies together, so that is proof of dark matter. Where is God's " gravity "? I say in a purely random universe we would not ever exist. Like the invisible dark matter holding the universe together the invisible hand of God keeps everything else from flying apart.
Jul 10, 2016 00:36:55 #
son of witless wrote:
Atheists say there is no God. There are historical... (show quote)
Atheists believe in evolution, not because it makes any sense, or is even believable. They believe it because the only other alternative is abhorrent to them. A living God that they have rejected, and must one day answer to. They lie to themselves so they can sleep at night, knowing deep down that they are doomed to eternal damnation. The Bible tells us that no one will have an excuse on Judgement Day. That tells me that no one really believes in evolution. It's simply a crutch to keep them from thinking about the reality of their situation.
Jul 10, 2016 00:48:19 #
"I say in a purely random universe we would not ever exist."
In a purely random universe, the universe would never exist. There are undeniably events we have seen that appear random to us but only because we are unable to access all of the facts. Was the so-called k**ler asteroid that purportedly eliminated the dinosaurs a random event? Certainly not. If we could have the relevant data, asteroidal mass, vectors, etc., we could have given a warning to the dinosaurs because the math would have shown the inevitability of the collision and the math would have predicted the damage.
Our inability to uncover the data doesn't prevent us from recognizing the patterns. From those patterns, a few human minds have the wherewithal to snatch insights that others pursue with the tools and methods available to them and turn theory into fact. We understood the circulation of the planets long before we had the knowledge necessary to place an orbiter around Jupiter. We recognized the patterns but attributed the unknown to God. Today, we know the data and God no longer need be relied upon for solving the mystery of the patterns.
If there is a God, He gave us the tools to understand His creation. That we use those tools for that purpose can hardly be contrary to His will.
Science will never prove that God is or is not and that is how it should be. Human conceit and arrogance already constitute a major stumbling block in our lives. Some mysteries will remain theories, the data remaining forever beyond our ability to retrieve... but nonetheless, nothing is random; the underlying rules that apply the data to the patterns we can see remain in operation in spite of our ignorance.
Perhaps God did not create the rules, maybe God is the rules.
In a purely random universe, the universe would never exist. There are undeniably events we have seen that appear random to us but only because we are unable to access all of the facts. Was the so-called k**ler asteroid that purportedly eliminated the dinosaurs a random event? Certainly not. If we could have the relevant data, asteroidal mass, vectors, etc., we could have given a warning to the dinosaurs because the math would have shown the inevitability of the collision and the math would have predicted the damage.
Our inability to uncover the data doesn't prevent us from recognizing the patterns. From those patterns, a few human minds have the wherewithal to snatch insights that others pursue with the tools and methods available to them and turn theory into fact. We understood the circulation of the planets long before we had the knowledge necessary to place an orbiter around Jupiter. We recognized the patterns but attributed the unknown to God. Today, we know the data and God no longer need be relied upon for solving the mystery of the patterns.
If there is a God, He gave us the tools to understand His creation. That we use those tools for that purpose can hardly be contrary to His will.
Science will never prove that God is or is not and that is how it should be. Human conceit and arrogance already constitute a major stumbling block in our lives. Some mysteries will remain theories, the data remaining forever beyond our ability to retrieve... but nonetheless, nothing is random; the underlying rules that apply the data to the patterns we can see remain in operation in spite of our ignorance.
Perhaps God did not create the rules, maybe God is the rules.
Jul 10, 2016 00:52:30 #
JW wrote:
"I say in a purely random universe we would n... (show quote)
Through Him all things were made, and without Him was not anything made that was made. He is the binding force that holds everything together.
Jul 10, 2016 00:57:16 #
Little Ball of H**e wrote:
Through Him all things were made, and without Him was not anything made that was made. He is the binding force that holds everything together.
That would make Him the rules.
Jul 10, 2016 01:30:41 #
Can you imagine a fish asking "Is there water?" when that is all it has ever experienced?
It is only when the fish jumps out of the water to catch a fly or a salmon jumping a small water fall as it runs up river against the flow that it can discern a waterless state even if only for a brief moment ...
Each individual has its own state of acceptance ... it is based on experience ... if we have always lived in some tropical area where the temperature is always 70 to 80 degrees ... then it would be a shock to get
off from an airplane in Chicago during the dead of winter ... That is a change in one's state of acceptance.
Our scientists are only looking at this physical universe and its set of laws as manifest here in the worlds of
Matter, Energy, Space, and Time (MEST) ... When we remember a dream, we are recalling a real experience in a real but different dimensional world ... a world in many ways similar to this dimension, but
not subject to the same rules or laws as this world ... Using the native of a tropical island analogy ... having spent all his life in relative comfort, now experiencing Chicago with -5 degree temperatures and
a windchill of -20 degrees will be a totally new experience ... one must adjust to these changes ... learning how to deal with slick Ice ... keeping warm ... seeking refuge from the cold ... upon return ... he will look
back at the experience and remember the first time he felt the ice cold air on his skin .. the brutal cold wind, and slipping and falling on a patch of ice ... only those memories will probably jump around in the sequence of events in some irregular, non-sequential order ... that is the nature of dreams ...
So we are now looking at two worlds ... the world of the tropical Island ... and the world of Chicago in the dead of winter ... and the number of different world views and the various dimensions one Soul might experience is infinite ... some experiences are so dramatically different that one can not recall them at all ... because one can not relate that experience in terms of this every day life experience in this dimension ...
Soul is a much abused concept ... it is often thought of simply a way of viewing an individual body form and personality such as when we say we lost 126 Souls when that aircraft plunged into the ocean ...
From my perspective Soul is a real entity ... that which is the consciousness within this body ... experiencing an individual life scenario ... much like a video game where we take on the experience of the specific character in scripted scenario ... some video games you are simply along for the ride like a riding a
roller coaster in a theme park with no control ... just the thrill and fear of the changing speeds, steep drops, and loop de loops of the ride ... other games you must mentally choose a specific destination to investigate or search for some item that you need to find to accomplish your task at hand ... but the final result is essentially scripted and you must figure out how to achieve your final goal ... And if you fail, run out of energy, or get k**led in the process ... well you can start over and try another approach to meeting your goal ... learning what NOT to do and what you MUST Do ... Eventually you will master this scenario and it will be time to find an entirely different scenario ...
You are like Soul when you play such video games ... You are present to master a challenge ... starting with no knowledge of your environment, and you must acquaint yourself with the other characters, the places you may find along the way ... and learn what you must learn to master your challenge ...
Like Soul you do not die, but return to your real home, world view and life ... take some rest ... contemplate on what worked in the last session and what didn't ... and finally reenter the game and
try another approach to advance yourself further along the trail to achieving your objective ...
It is like you are sitting outside Space and Time from the Video Game's perspective ... if you strategically save a copy of your travels from the beginning to the end named for your progress like day 1, day 2, etc ... you can jump into the game at any given day you wish from your view point outside the video games
time line ... Such is the nature of Soul and Life ... once again from my perspective ...
And let's say you have saved 10 days worth of play ... but you decide that you needed to pick up something you originally thought to be irrelevant ... you can go back into Day 3 ... but now the future days will be modified in some manner either slightly or greatly ... so save these days in turn again ... you
can change your history and change the future at the same time ...
Once again—from my perspective and understanding—I am Soul ... and Soul has a body and a mind ...
Soul can simply ride the roller coaster called life or Soul can direct how its life is experienced ... in any case
Soul is learning the lessons it needs to learn ... that is why Soul takes on a physical body ...
Soul is a Spark of the Ultimate Source of All ... it shares in all Its attributes ... but it must be educated
so that it can become more attuned to the Source of All and realize its true destiny ...
It is only when the fish jumps out of the water to catch a fly or a salmon jumping a small water fall as it runs up river against the flow that it can discern a waterless state even if only for a brief moment ...
Each individual has its own state of acceptance ... it is based on experience ... if we have always lived in some tropical area where the temperature is always 70 to 80 degrees ... then it would be a shock to get
off from an airplane in Chicago during the dead of winter ... That is a change in one's state of acceptance.
Our scientists are only looking at this physical universe and its set of laws as manifest here in the worlds of
Matter, Energy, Space, and Time (MEST) ... When we remember a dream, we are recalling a real experience in a real but different dimensional world ... a world in many ways similar to this dimension, but
not subject to the same rules or laws as this world ... Using the native of a tropical island analogy ... having spent all his life in relative comfort, now experiencing Chicago with -5 degree temperatures and
a windchill of -20 degrees will be a totally new experience ... one must adjust to these changes ... learning how to deal with slick Ice ... keeping warm ... seeking refuge from the cold ... upon return ... he will look
back at the experience and remember the first time he felt the ice cold air on his skin .. the brutal cold wind, and slipping and falling on a patch of ice ... only those memories will probably jump around in the sequence of events in some irregular, non-sequential order ... that is the nature of dreams ...
So we are now looking at two worlds ... the world of the tropical Island ... and the world of Chicago in the dead of winter ... and the number of different world views and the various dimensions one Soul might experience is infinite ... some experiences are so dramatically different that one can not recall them at all ... because one can not relate that experience in terms of this every day life experience in this dimension ...
Soul is a much abused concept ... it is often thought of simply a way of viewing an individual body form and personality such as when we say we lost 126 Souls when that aircraft plunged into the ocean ...
From my perspective Soul is a real entity ... that which is the consciousness within this body ... experiencing an individual life scenario ... much like a video game where we take on the experience of the specific character in scripted scenario ... some video games you are simply along for the ride like a riding a
roller coaster in a theme park with no control ... just the thrill and fear of the changing speeds, steep drops, and loop de loops of the ride ... other games you must mentally choose a specific destination to investigate or search for some item that you need to find to accomplish your task at hand ... but the final result is essentially scripted and you must figure out how to achieve your final goal ... And if you fail, run out of energy, or get k**led in the process ... well you can start over and try another approach to meeting your goal ... learning what NOT to do and what you MUST Do ... Eventually you will master this scenario and it will be time to find an entirely different scenario ...
You are like Soul when you play such video games ... You are present to master a challenge ... starting with no knowledge of your environment, and you must acquaint yourself with the other characters, the places you may find along the way ... and learn what you must learn to master your challenge ...
Like Soul you do not die, but return to your real home, world view and life ... take some rest ... contemplate on what worked in the last session and what didn't ... and finally reenter the game and
try another approach to advance yourself further along the trail to achieving your objective ...
It is like you are sitting outside Space and Time from the Video Game's perspective ... if you strategically save a copy of your travels from the beginning to the end named for your progress like day 1, day 2, etc ... you can jump into the game at any given day you wish from your view point outside the video games
time line ... Such is the nature of Soul and Life ... once again from my perspective ...
And let's say you have saved 10 days worth of play ... but you decide that you needed to pick up something you originally thought to be irrelevant ... you can go back into Day 3 ... but now the future days will be modified in some manner either slightly or greatly ... so save these days in turn again ... you
can change your history and change the future at the same time ...
Once again—from my perspective and understanding—I am Soul ... and Soul has a body and a mind ...
Soul can simply ride the roller coaster called life or Soul can direct how its life is experienced ... in any case
Soul is learning the lessons it needs to learn ... that is why Soul takes on a physical body ...
Soul is a Spark of the Ultimate Source of All ... it shares in all Its attributes ... but it must be educated
so that it can become more attuned to the Source of All and realize its true destiny ...
Jul 10, 2016 07:26:16 #
The Alpha and the Omega and everything in between is proof of something.......
Wh**ever it is you believe that is your proof...We are but on a journey to establish our t***hs and in that find our own acceptance...
Amazing isn't it that we all, regardless of being a Christian or Agnostic, or Atheist, etc are somehow still searching, looking for answers...How can that be wrong???
Wh**ever it is you believe that is your proof...We are but on a journey to establish our t***hs and in that find our own acceptance...
Amazing isn't it that we all, regardless of being a Christian or Agnostic, or Atheist, etc are somehow still searching, looking for answers...How can that be wrong???
Jul 10, 2016 08:02:09 #
son of witless wrote:
Atheists say there is no God. There are historical... (show quote)
son of witless,
See, The Portal Cloud Created By CERN Hadron Collider in Switzerland. Watch the Video
http://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-76244-1.html
Photos Also found on these websites:
http://www.wnd.com/2016/07/on-video-see-portal-created-by-hadron-collider/
http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/684219/What-is-CERN-doing-Bizarre-clouds-over-Large-Hadron-Collider-prove-portals-are-opening
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1358274/jaw-dropping-photos-taken-above-cerns-large-hadron-collider-lead-to-wild-new-conspiracy-theories-and-prove-portals-are-opening/
http://fotoforensics.com
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and these photos have not been photoshopped.
But can you explain the photos after viewing the videos ? Dark-Mater ?
Something is not right in Kansas anymore Dorothy . . . . . I mean CERN . . . .
Jul 10, 2016 11:59:07 #
Little Ball of H**e wrote:
Atheists believe in evolution, not because it make... (show quote)
I have addressed to my best abilities the subject of God as a Supreme Being and also what I have tried to understand about the theory of dark matter. Both concepts I believe are unprovable either for or against in a physical sense. I chose dark matter to compare God to because it was the only concept I could think of with enough similarity to God that an Atheist might understand.
However, I do not believe that is the real problem between Christians and Atheists. I mean why the hell would Atheists care what Christians believe? It has to do with our capitalist system and the culture that has " evolved " in the US over 2 plus centuries. Christianity is woven tightly in with American history and culture. As our l*****t Marxist manure headed masters have sought to dismantle American culture, Christianity must also be destroyed.
From the French Revolution to the Russian Revolution to Modern American Atheism, organized religion is tied to old regimes and that is the real reason Atheists must destroy it. The only way the new world order can be established is to wipe the slate clean.
Jul 10, 2016 15:52:20 #
Little Ball of H**e wrote:
Atheists believe in evolution, not because it make... (show quote)
Evolution makes sense in the same way mathematics makes sense. It is no more mysterious than are the nether reaches of calculus. Understanding both require a solid grounding in the basics.
I cannot stress strongly enough just how much damage you do to your cause among those you try to reach when you presume to explain motives you clearly do not understand. Your remarks leave the impression of a wide eyed, painted face attempting to grasp the magic of a cigarette lighter.
Jul 10, 2016 17:34:07 #
JW wrote:
Evolution makes sense in the same way mathematics makes sense. It is no more mysterious than are the nether reaches of calculus. Understanding both require a solid grounding in the basics.
I cannot stress strongly enough just how much damage you do to your cause among those you try to reach when you presume to explain motives you clearly do not understand. Your remarks leave the impression of a wide eyed, painted face attempting to grasp the magic of a cigarette lighter.
I cannot stress strongly enough just how much damage you do to your cause among those you try to reach when you presume to explain motives you clearly do not understand. Your remarks leave the impression of a wide eyed, painted face attempting to grasp the magic of a cigarette lighter.
That's your opinion. Nothing more. And we all know what that's worth. Instead of refuting what people say, you paint them as ignorant savages, because they don't agree with you. That's par for the course, when the facts are not on your side.
Jul 10, 2016 18:04:01 #
Little Ball of H**e wrote:
That's your opinion. Nothing more. And we all know what that's worth. Instead of refuting what people say, you paint them as ignorant savages, because they don't agree with you. That's par for the course, when the facts are not on your side.
Actually, it is a lot of people's opinions but it is certainly mine as well. As for refuting your arguments, I have told you before, that is not possible because you keep proposing magic as your bulwark. However, if you would like to lead by example, give a go at refuting evolution once, not just issuing spurious declarations that do nothing but demonstrate ignorance.
I will repeat the advice I have offered before. Stick to religion, stay away from science. You will have ground to stand on there.
Jul 10, 2016 21:30:35 #
Doc110 wrote:
son of witless, br br See, The Portal Cloud Crea... (show quote)
T***hfully this stuff confused me.
Jul 10, 2016 22:23:41 #
JW wrote:
Actually, it is a lot of people's opinions but it ... (show quote)
Once again, that's your opinion. There are many who also share my opinion. Biologists, chemists, geologists, as well as other scientific disciplines. You preach about how evolution is proven science. Nothing could be further from the t***h. And, once again, you fall back on the tired accusation that I simply don't know what I'm talking about. How droll. Surely, you can do better than that. Tell you what. Pick any claim that evolution makes, and asserts as t***h, and I'll refute it.
Jul 10, 2016 23:35:19 #
son of witless wrote:
Atheists say there is no God. There are historical... (show quote)
Dark matter is still part of the natural universe and even though it may escape definition now there is no reason to believe that it won't be understood in the future. By definition god is supernatural and therefore not part of the natural universe. You cannot put a definition upon that which has no foundation in the natural world. As such the only type of proof that exists is from anecdotal evidence or from logical fallacies and neither constitutes a reason based proof for god.
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