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Jul 9, 2016 00:59:43   #
ziggy88 Loc: quincy illinois 62301
 
Why the Rapture Comes Before the Tribulation………..
Researched by Pastor Gary Boyd


I hold to the view that ALL tribulation Christians, those that come to recognize Christ as Lord and Savior after the Rapture during the Great Tribulation, would be sure to perish.
I hold to that view, and here are my reasons.

We even ask: Why would any Christian want to survive through the Tribulation in the first place? Though tribulation Christians do not have the special position of raptured Christians, they nevertheless are promised a reward at the start of the Millennium, as the Bible clearly states. They will experience the First Resurrection at that point.

As I will show, a literal reading of the Bible clearly and plainly supports the understanding that there will be no Christians that will physically survive the Tribulation period.
Readers, however, may well ask: Why even concern ourselves with this point? Is it not true that Christians will be removed from the earth at the Rapture before the time of God’s wrath begins? And if so, why would we even care about the course of prophesied earthly developments after that point?

Answer: All Scripture is profitable for teaching (2 Timothy 3:16), and this Biblical issue is no exception. As it turns out, the question regarding the fate of Christians during the Tribulation is a critical one in the defense of the Rapture Doctrine, as we will show.

Perhaps only a minority of Christians today believe in the Pretribulational Rapture Doctrine. They believe that all Christians will go through the Tribulation … presuming that any apocalyptic Scriptures are believed at all. Also, numerous inventive variations of Rapture teachings have emerged—Pre-Wrath, Mid- and Post-tribulation … etc.

The tales that the Christian dead tell us in Scripture, in this respect refute all these other beliefs regarding the Rapture. If ALL Christians indeed die in the Tribulation, then some glaring inconsistencies are exposed in these variant views, thus giving credence to the Rapture Doctrine.

Positional Differences of Pre- and Post-Rapture Christians

Do all Christians die in the Apocalypse … and can we prove it? To answer, we must begin by noting the positional distinctions between ALL tribulation Christians, and those of the pre-Tribulation period who are ALL raptured. During the Tribulation, the Holy Spirit is no longer an unction (the Lord's anointed) upon earth as during the Church Age. The Comforter (Holy Spirit) has been removed along with the Church, and the Antichrist has been revealed. Those who come to Christ during the Tribulation are not spared suffering and physical death (the First Death), as are the raptured saints (who are alive at the time).

Pre-tribulational Christians of the Church Age are t***slated (physically changed into the eternal state at the Rapture) to be in Christ’s presence. Tribulation Christians are not t***slated to new eternal bodies … at least, not until after the Millennium. The raptured Christians do not experience the First Death; the Tribulation Saints do. Tribulation Christians ALL must face a physical death. ALL are certain to become martyrs. Graciously, tribulation Christians are promised the First Resurrection at the start of the Millennium.

While both groups of Christians are given eternal life (one at the Rapture) and the Tribulation Saints at the end of the millennium kingdom, both share a common eternal fate after the Millennium (neither experience the Second Death), their paths, experiences and positions are very different, however.

Christians During the Time of Wrath

Without a doubt, people will become believers in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, during the Tribulation Period who are called the Tribulation Saints. As the terror of this time erupts, earth dwellers will come to the recognition that Jesus Christ was who He said He was—the Messiah … the Savior … the Son of God. The state of evil in the world, as well as the appearance of the Antichrist, will be obvious to all. The timing of remaining prophetic events is then no longer entirely speculative. These are clearly seen to be unfolding.

By the time of the 6th seal (this the most apocalyptic and shaking to that time), it will be clearly obvious to all that the world is facing God’s wrath. In fact, they openly acknowledge this fact, saying, “The great day of their wrath has come” (Revelation 6:17).

As such, many people do become Christians during the Tribulation. In fact, there are so many that the Bible calls them a “great multitude” (Revelation 7:9).

However, we may be getting ahead of ourselves. Where does this “multitude” of saints come from, and what is their fate?

The Great Winnowing

The great winnowing of tribulation Christians from earth is described in Revelation 13:11-17. The verb was used of winnowing out the chaff and then of grinding to powder. The False Prophet (the Second Beast) orders all to worship an image of the First Beast, and presses all to take upon themselves the mark of the First Beast, so that they can buy and sell. Those that DO worship the image of the beast and take this mark will be eternally damned (Revelation 14:11).

What happens to those who DO NOT take the mark of the False Prophet and refuse to worship the image of the beast? The good news: They are redeemed and therefore will not be condemned to the lake of fire. Nevertheless, they will not be spared suffering. These Christians will be k**led.
The Bible clearly says that “ all those who refused to worship the image WILL be k**led” (Revelation 13:15). Revelation 20:4 confirms this, saying: “ I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.”

Again, the goods news amidst the terrors? The tribulation Christians who refuse the “mark” are spared the Second Death which is destruction in hell. Yet, they must face the First Death before being rewarded with the First Resurrection at the start of the Millennium.

Two Phases of Slain Saints

We place the aforementioned events shown in Revelation 13, as occurring sometime between/during the fifth and sixth seals. Events that the Bible describes during these seal judgments closely align with the Great Winnowing.

To be sure, Christians are already being slain before the fifth seal. We see these first tribulation Christians that are k**led shown in Revelation 6:9-11. The Bible says: “When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, ‘How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?’ Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were k**led just as they had been.”

Presented here are the souls of the Christians who have been slaughtered between the Rapture and the time of the 5th seal. They are shown under the altar in heaven and are told to stay there “until the full number of their fellow servants” (Revelation 6:11) are k**led as they had been. These earlier Christians are waiting until the rest of the martyrs arrive.

A little later (at the time of the sixth seal), we now see that the “full number” has arrived. As already mentioned, there are so many martyrs at this point that they are called a “great multitude.” John the Revelator says “ there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands” (Revelation 7:9). These souls are identified as coming out of the “tribulation” (Revelation 7:14). They are tribulation martyrs … a very large number. The fact that they now all hold palm branches signifies that they have attained victory and eternal life.

Just what event or development could have caused such a large influx of Christian souls, to have arrived in front of the throne in such a short space of time? According to our understanding, the great winnowing of Revelation 13:11-17 occurred. It is the final “dividing line,” I think. A large number of earth dwellers have refused to take the “mark” and are martyred. By the end of the 6th seal, these souls end up in front of the throne.

Envisioning both phases of the slain saints, says the Bible of them: “This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus. Then I heard a voice from heaven say, ‘Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ‘Yes,’ says the Spirit, ‘they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them’ (Revelation 14:12-13).

Why Christian Dead Tell Tales

The view that all tribulation Christians will be martyred is problematic for many. For one, it nullifies the case for a Rapture occurring any other time than before the Tribulation. If, for example, there were no Christians alive on earth as of the early stages of the second half of the Tribulation, there could be no Mid- or Post-tribulation Rapture. What would be the point? There is no one—or perhaps only an insignificant number—to be raptured.

Or, let’s assume that the Rapture naysayers are right in that there is no Rapture of any kind. To take this position means that All Christians will go into the Tribulation period. And, more Christians may be added to their number through conversions during the earlier stages of the Tribulation (though this is immaterial to the issue here). However, the question then arises: Why would God allow that ALL Christians in the world be k**led during the Tribulation?

Critically, why would God allow some non-Christians and Jews to survive … but no Christians?

My reasoning is because God must focus on saving the remnant out of Israel who have fled to the desert fortress of Petra. He must gather his saintly forces & fierce angels in heaven to come to the earth to fight Satan and his minions at the battle of Armageddon. The number of saints will all have been called to heaven by then to power up and join in this last huge confrontation as Jesus returns in all his glory to defeat Satan’s 200 million man army in the valley of Jehosaphat. Please come soon my sweet Lord………….

Reply
Jul 9, 2016 01:54:06   #
Raylan Wolfe Loc: earth
 
ziggy88 wrote:
Why the Rapture Comes Before the Tribulation………..
Researched by Pastor Gary Boyd


I hold to the view that ALL tribulation Christians, those that come to recognize Christ as Lord and Savior after the Rapture during the Great Tribulation, would be sure to perish.
I hold to that view, and here are my reasons.

We even ask: Why would any Christian want to survive through the Tribulation in the first place? Though tribulation Christians do not have the special position of raptured Christians, they nevertheless are promised a reward at the start of the Millennium, as the Bible clearly states. They will experience the First Resurrection at that point.

As I will show, a literal reading of the Bible clearly and plainly supports the understanding that there will be no Christians that will physically survive the Tribulation period.
Readers, however, may well ask: Why even concern ourselves with this point? Is it not true that Christians will be removed from the earth at the Rapture before the time of God’s wrath begins? And if so, why would we even care about the course of prophesied earthly developments after that point?

Answer: All Scripture is profitable for teaching (2 Timothy 3:16), and this Biblical issue is no exception. As it turns out, the question regarding the fate of Christians during the Tribulation is a critical one in the defense of the Rapture Doctrine, as we will show.

Perhaps only a minority of Christians today believe in the Pretribulational Rapture Doctrine. They believe that all Christians will go through the Tribulation … presuming that any apocalyptic Scriptures are believed at all. Also, numerous inventive variations of Rapture teachings have emerged—Pre-Wrath, Mid- and Post-tribulation … etc.

The tales that the Christian dead tell us in Scripture, in this respect refute all these other beliefs regarding the Rapture. If ALL Christians indeed die in the Tribulation, then some glaring inconsistencies are exposed in these variant views, thus giving credence to the Rapture Doctrine.

Positional Differences of Pre- and Post-Rapture Christians

Do all Christians die in the Apocalypse … and can we prove it? To answer, we must begin by noting the positional distinctions between ALL tribulation Christians, and those of the pre-Tribulation period who are ALL raptured. During the Tribulation, the Holy Spirit is no longer an unction (the Lord's anointed) upon earth as during the Church Age. The Comforter (Holy Spirit) has been removed along with the Church, and the Antichrist has been revealed. Those who come to Christ during the Tribulation are not spared suffering and physical death (the First Death), as are the raptured saints (who are alive at the time).

Pre-tribulational Christians of the Church Age are t***slated (physically changed into the eternal state at the Rapture) to be in Christ’s presence. Tribulation Christians are not t***slated to new eternal bodies … at least, not until after the Millennium. The raptured Christians do not experience the First Death; the Tribulation Saints do. Tribulation Christians ALL must face a physical death. ALL are certain to become martyrs. Graciously, tribulation Christians are promised the First Resurrection at the start of the Millennium.

While both groups of Christians are given eternal life (one at the Rapture) and the Tribulation Saints at the end of the millennium kingdom, both share a common eternal fate after the Millennium (neither experience the Second Death), their paths, experiences and positions are very different, however.

Christians During the Time of Wrath

Without a doubt, people will become believers in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, during the Tribulation Period who are called the Tribulation Saints. As the terror of this time erupts, earth dwellers will come to the recognition that Jesus Christ was who He said He was—the Messiah … the Savior … the Son of God. The state of evil in the world, as well as the appearance of the Antichrist, will be obvious to all. The timing of remaining prophetic events is then no longer entirely speculative. These are clearly seen to be unfolding.

By the time of the 6th seal (this the most apocalyptic and shaking to that time), it will be clearly obvious to all that the world is facing God’s wrath. In fact, they openly acknowledge this fact, saying, “The great day of their wrath has come” (Revelation 6:17).

As such, many people do become Christians during the Tribulation. In fact, there are so many that the Bible calls them a “great multitude” (Revelation 7:9).

However, we may be getting ahead of ourselves. Where does this “multitude” of saints come from, and what is their fate?

The Great Winnowing

The great winnowing of tribulation Christians from earth is described in Revelation 13:11-17. The verb was used of winnowing out the chaff and then of grinding to powder. The False Prophet (the Second Beast) orders all to worship an image of the First Beast, and presses all to take upon themselves the mark of the First Beast, so that they can buy and sell. Those that DO worship the image of the beast and take this mark will be eternally damned (Revelation 14:11).

What happens to those who DO NOT take the mark of the False Prophet and refuse to worship the image of the beast? The good news: They are redeemed and therefore will not be condemned to the lake of fire. Nevertheless, they will not be spared suffering. These Christians will be k**led.
The Bible clearly says that “ all those who refused to worship the image WILL be k**led” (Revelation 13:15). Revelation 20:4 confirms this, saying: “ I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.”

Again, the goods news amidst the terrors? The tribulation Christians who refuse the “mark” are spared the Second Death which is destruction in hell. Yet, they must face the First Death before being rewarded with the First Resurrection at the start of the Millennium.

Two Phases of Slain Saints

We place the aforementioned events shown in Revelation 13, as occurring sometime between/during the fifth and sixth seals. Events that the Bible describes during these seal judgments closely align with the Great Winnowing.

To be sure, Christians are already being slain before the fifth seal. We see these first tribulation Christians that are k**led shown in Revelation 6:9-11. The Bible says: “When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, ‘How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?’ Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were k**led just as they had been.”

Presented here are the souls of the Christians who have been slaughtered between the Rapture and the time of the 5th seal. They are shown under the altar in heaven and are told to stay there “until the full number of their fellow servants” (Revelation 6:11) are k**led as they had been. These earlier Christians are waiting until the rest of the martyrs arrive.

A little later (at the time of the sixth seal), we now see that the “full number” has arrived. As already mentioned, there are so many martyrs at this point that they are called a “great multitude.” John the Revelator says “ there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands” (Revelation 7:9). These souls are identified as coming out of the “tribulation” (Revelation 7:14). They are tribulation martyrs … a very large number. The fact that they now all hold palm branches signifies that they have attained victory and eternal life.

Just what event or development could have caused such a large influx of Christian souls, to have arrived in front of the throne in such a short space of time? According to our understanding, the great winnowing of Revelation 13:11-17 occurred. It is the final “dividing line,” I think. A large number of earth dwellers have refused to take the “mark” and are martyred. By the end of the 6th seal, these souls end up in front of the throne.

Envisioning both phases of the slain saints, says the Bible of them: “This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus. Then I heard a voice from heaven say, ‘Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ‘Yes,’ says the Spirit, ‘they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them’ (Revelation 14:12-13).

Why Christian Dead Tell Tales

The view that all tribulation Christians will be martyred is problematic for many. For one, it nullifies the case for a Rapture occurring any other time than before the Tribulation. If, for example, there were no Christians alive on earth as of the early stages of the second half of the Tribulation, there could be no Mid- or Post-tribulation Rapture. What would be the point? There is no one—or perhaps only an insignificant number—to be raptured.

Or, let’s assume that the Rapture naysayers are right in that there is no Rapture of any kind. To take this position means that All Christians will go into the Tribulation period. And, more Christians may be added to their number through conversions during the earlier stages of the Tribulation (though this is immaterial to the issue here). However, the question then arises: Why would God allow that ALL Christians in the world be k**led during the Tribulation?

Critically, why would God allow some non-Christians and Jews to survive … but no Christians?

My reasoning is because God must focus on saving the remnant out of Israel who have fled to the desert fortress of Petra. He must gather his saintly forces & fierce angels in heaven to come to the earth to fight Satan and his minions at the battle of Armageddon. The number of saints will all have been called to heaven by then to power up and join in this last huge confrontation as Jesus returns in all his glory to defeat Satan’s 200 million man army in the valley of Jehosaphat. Please come soon my sweet Lord………….
Why the Rapture Comes Before the Tribulation…... (show quote)





Reply
Jul 9, 2016 03:11:04   #
Little Ball of Hate
 
You're an i***t. Has anyone told you that lately? Of course, they have. I'm sure you hear it on a daily basis. Why are you even here? No one takes you seriously. You're a buffoon. A fool. You are a perfect example of someone who just doesn't get it, and never will.

Reply
 
 
Jul 9, 2016 05:25:08   #
waltmoreno
 
Hey ziggy88, You're confused. There's no such thing as the rapture. It's not biblical. It was the invention of an imbalanced lady. The message of the antichrist, when he comes to earth will be "I've come to rapture you away". And many ignorant and uninformed people, thinking that they're going with Christ, will board his wagon. And they'll find themselves in hell. Woe to those who believe in the rapture. Your so-called Pastor Boyd is leading his congregation straight to hell.

Reply
Jul 9, 2016 10:30:30   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
There is no use specifically of the word rapture in the Bible but the event is described. I can give you the chapter and verse but I have a feeling your mind is made up. I believe you are confused.
waltmoreno wrote:
Hey ziggy88, You're confused. There's no such thing as the rapture. It's not biblical. It was the invention of an imbalanced lady. The message of the antichrist, when he comes to earth will be "I've come to rapture you away". And many ignorant and uninformed people, thinking that they're going with Christ, will board his wagon. And they'll find themselves in hell. Woe to those who believe in the rapture. Your so-called Pastor Boyd is leading his congregation straight to hell.

Reply
Jul 9, 2016 11:23:03   #
TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!
 
waltmoreno wrote:
Hey ziggy88, You're confused. There's no such thing as the rapture. It's not biblical. It was the invention of an imbalanced lady. The message of the antichrist, when he comes to earth will be "I've come to rapture you away". And many ignorant and uninformed people, thinking that they're going with Christ, will board his wagon. And they'll find themselves in hell. Woe to those who believe in the rapture. Your so-called Pastor Boyd is leading his congregation straight to hell.


I see by your 'phrases and insults' that you are a follower of Arnold Murray and Shepherds Chapel. Instead of calling you confused or ignorant or uninformed and assuring your ticket to hell, I going to inform you of a few facts. The belief of the rapture did not start with Margaret Macdonald! If fact, it has been traced all the way back to Irenaeus, Cyprian and Ephraim The Syrian. We believe that we will be snatched up or gathered or in other words, RAPTURED. The Lord is NOT going to ask us if we want to go with him. He is going to take us! We belong to him! If you are going to attempt to insult, criticize, or judge another Christians belief, you MUST know what they actually believe. I believe that we all have the right to interpret scripture anyway we choose!!! Why is it that the followers of Arnold Murray are so sure that if one does not believe his interpretation of scripture that they have not been taught what the bible really 'says' and that they will go to hell? It is not what MAN we follow or what he teaches that will save us! It is accepting Jesus Christ as our savior. When we have done this, the antichrist can't take us from our Lord and Savior!

Reply
Jul 9, 2016 12:17:19   #
Little Ball of Hate
 
TexaCan wrote:
I see by your 'phrases and insults' that you are a follower of Arnold Murray and Shepherds Chapel. Instead of calling you confused or ignorant or uninformed and assuring your ticket to hell, I going to inform you of a few facts. The belief of the rapture did not start with Margaret Macdonald! If fact, it has been traced all the way back to Irenaeus, Cyprian and Ephraim The Syrian. We believe that we will be snatched up or gathered or in other words, RAPTURED. The Lord is NOT going to ask us if we want to go with him. He is going to take us! We belong to him! If you are going to attempt to insult, criticize, or judge another Christians belief, you MUST know what they actually believe. I believe that we all have the right to interpret scripture anyway we choose!!! Why is it that the followers of Arnold Murray are so sure that if one does not believe his interpretation of scripture that they have not been taught what the bible really 'says' and that they will go to hell? It is not what MAN we follow or what he teaches that will save us! It is accepting Jesus Christ as our savior. When we have done this, the antichrist can't take us from our Lord and Savior!
I see by your 'phrases and insults' that you are a... (show quote)


Winner

Reply
 
 
Jul 9, 2016 12:21:08   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
Yea, what TexaCan said.
TexaCan wrote:
I see by your 'phrases and insults' that you are a follower of Arnold Murray and Shepherds Chapel. Instead of calling you confused or ignorant or uninformed and assuring your ticket to hell, I going to inform you of a few facts. The belief of the rapture did not start with Margaret Macdonald! If fact, it has been traced all the way back to Irenaeus, Cyprian and Ephraim The Syrian. We believe that we will be snatched up or gathered or in other words, RAPTURED. The Lord is NOT going to ask us if we want to go with him. He is going to take us! We belong to him! If you are going to attempt to insult, criticize, or judge another Christians belief, you MUST know what they actually believe. I believe that we all have the right to interpret scripture anyway we choose!!! Why is it that the followers of Arnold Murray are so sure that if one does not believe his interpretation of scripture that they have not been taught what the bible really 'says' and that they will go to hell? It is not what MAN we follow or what he teaches that will save us! It is accepting Jesus Christ as our savior. When we have done this, the antichrist can't take us from our Lord and Savior!
I see by your 'phrases and insults' that you are a... (show quote)

Reply
Jul 9, 2016 15:15:02   #
waltmoreno
 
Ok all you naysayers and doubters of what I'm saying. Let's put on our thinking caps and think this through. Then let's go to the text of the Word and, with the help of Strong's Concordance let's find out the meaning of the various words used to justify the so-called rapture. .
Christ came and essentially told his followers to "come follow me." When He went through his "tribulation" which was much worse than what we will experience, was He magically wicked away, so as to not have to go through it? Not!
So why is it that, with us, we get a pass, and don't have to go through with the tribulation (aka test)? Tell me again what makes us so special that we get whisked away so that we don't have to endure the trials?
I already know all about 1 Thessalonians, 4: 16-18, the main verse and chapter that you rapture believers use to justify the so-called rapture. Where Paul talks about being caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
Look up what the word 'clouds' in that verse and chapter means. Then look up what the word 'air', in that verse and chapter means.
If you're being objectively reasonable, you'll agree that Paul isn't saying what it appears he's saying on the face of it.
Or you can disregard what I'm saying and jump on board the wagon of the one who comes first and tells people, to get on board, and see where you end up. No insults are intended, simply a warning to people with open minds to research the rapture very carefully.

Reply
Jul 9, 2016 15:36:15   #
Little Ball of Hate
 
waltmoreno wrote:
Ok all you naysayers and doubters of what I'm saying. Let's put on our thinking caps and think this through. Then let's go to the text of the Word and, with the help of Strong's Concordance let's find out the meaning of the various words used to justify the so-called rapture. .
Christ came and essentially told his followers to "come follow me." When He went through his "tribulation" which was much worse than what we will experience, was He magically wicked away, so as to not have to go through it? Not!
So why is it that, with us, we get a pass, and don't have to go through with the tribulation (aka test)? Tell me again what makes us so special that we get whisked away so that we don't have to endure the trials?
I already know all about 1 Thessalonians, 4: 16-18, the main verse and chapter that you rapture believers use to justify the so-called rapture. Where Paul talks about being caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
Look up what the word 'clouds' in that verse and chapter means. Then look up what the word 'air', in that verse and chapter means.
If you're being objectively reasonable, you'll agree that Paul isn't saying what it appears he's saying on the face of it.
Or you can disregard what I'm saying and jump on board the wagon of the one who comes first and tells people, to get on board, and see where you end up. No insults are intended, simply a warning to people with open minds to research the rapture very carefully.
Ok all you naysayers and doubters of what I'm sayi... (show quote)


One other thing. If we weren't going to go through at least the first half of the Tribulation period, why did God tell us about it? Sounds like a warning to me. Anyone Christian caught unprepared will have a rough time. I already have a spot picked out, along with rations and survival gear. When the shoe drops, I'll be ready.

Reply
Jul 9, 2016 18:35:31   #
TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!
 
waltmoreno wrote:
Ok all you naysayers and doubters of what I'm saying. Let's put on our thinking caps and think this through. Then let's go to the text of the Word and, with the help of Strong's Concordance let's find out the meaning of the various words used to justify the so-called rapture. .
Christ came and essentially told his followers to "come follow me." When He went through his "tribulation" which was much worse than what we will experience, was He magically wicked away, so as to not have to go through it? Not!
So why is it that, with us, we get a pass, and don't have to go through with the tribulation (aka test)? Tell me again what makes us so special that we get whisked away so that we don't have to endure the trials?
I already know all about 1 Thessalonians, 4: 16-18, the main verse and chapter that you rapture believers use to justify the so-called rapture. Where Paul talks about being caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
Look up what the word 'clouds' in that verse and chapter means. Then look up what the word 'air', in that verse and chapter means.
If you're being objectively reasonable, you'll agree that Paul isn't saying what it appears he's saying on the face of it.
Or you can disregard what I'm saying and jump on board the wagon of the one who comes first and tells people, to get on board, and see where you end up. No insults are intended, simply a warning to people with open minds to research the rapture very carefully.
Ok all you naysayers and doubters of what I'm sayi... (show quote)


Well I can put on 10 thinking caps and not believe that all the races of man was created on the sixth day and Adam and Eve was not the first man and woman created. Nor can I believe that Satan is the biological father of Cain and that all of his descendants are Kenites, which makes them not 100% human! I cannot believe that we existed in the first earth age in a spiritual body! And that's just some of Shephards Chapel beliefs that my mind will just not 'open wide enough' to believe. I am saved! Whether the rapture happens or not, Satan just can't have me. I am Indwelt with the Holy Spirit and he is my guide and my teacher. I will not jump on board with anyone claiming to be the Lord, nor will others protected by their salvation in Jesus Christ. I just don't know any other way to explain the promise of salvation to you. One is either saved or they are not. There is no in between! So we will just have to agree to disagree in our interpretation of scripture. Have a wonderful evening.

Reply
 
 
Jul 9, 2016 20:25:51   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
Little Ball of H**e wrote:
One other thing. If we weren't going to go through at least the first half of the Tribulation period, why did God tell us about it? Sounds like a warning to me. Anyone Christian caught unprepared will have a rough time. I already have a spot picked out, along with rations and survival gear. When the shoe drops, I'll be ready.


Actually LBH I believe most of the Book of Revelation is for the Jews. The Church (Believers, in Biblical interpretation. ) is mentioned early in Revelation but the CHURCH is never mentioned again in The Book of Revelation.

Reply
Jul 10, 2016 03:00:32   #
Roach G
 
👍👍👍👍👌👌👌🎯🔫🎯🎯🌟🌟🌟🌟🔛🎯👌😃😃😃💯😃😃💯💯💯💯

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Jul 10, 2016 10:50:26   #
bahmer
 
Little Ball of H**e wrote:
Winner


I'm with you on that.

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Jul 10, 2016 10:56:28   #
Kazudy
 
Zingy,I too am a pre-trib as most readers of the Bible are. The only one that I have great respect for that disagrees with the pre-s is R.S. Sproul. He has a radio program. Look him up.

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