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Bush (Iraq War) Vs. Obama (Obamacare): Who 'Lied'?
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Nov 9, 2013 02:55:49   #
UncleJesse Loc: Hazzard Co, GA
 
This is a refreshing to read this post but before it veers off to extremism, here are some comments to consider:

Quote:
They BOTH lied. They ALL lie......and we, the American people are stupid enough to believe them.....instead of looking to the source for all that is bringing this country down. Look to the ones who choose candidates for whom to "allow" us to v**e...and then to the victors who do exactly as they are told, and NOT what the US public tells them to do.

They both have tough decisions. Both erred on the side of least risk. GWB believed the bigger threat was Sadam not Al Quida. BHO realized those needing help are the uninsurable not the healthy, even if it meant a political sacrifice. Sometimes, leading means making tough decisions that are unpopular.

Quote:
If the public ever got off their azzes and researched, they would find that......and I KNOW this is going to anger some......we have been bamboozled, hornswoggled, and snookered....into believing that we MUST protect Israel.....that as "Christians" it is our sworn duty.

The righteousness of the creation of Israel is debatable but the people who emigrated there are vastly outnumbered. While it is disgraceful that so many were forced out of their homeland, using a guise of Christianity for western support is a necessary solution to prevent additional horror until the minority in power choose secularism in this region.

Quote:
Well, why don't we get real? Our country is going down the tube because of this. Christianity AND the Jewish faith is being used and abused to profit a few.....and if those few represent "God's chosen people".....by their actions, I certainly would not choose that "God".....they are quite poor representations of anything "godly"....but the opposite is pretty close to what they claim.

True, but think of the alternative horror. Supporting the minority in that region does prevent vengeance from being enacted on a mass scale.

Quote:
The Khorzans, Jews from Europe, who own the banks("The Crown", banks in Switzerland) that own the Bank of International Settlements, the International Monetary Fund, and....the Federal Reserves....thereby controlling all countries that borrow money and have Feds.......want only ONE thing.....world domination with destruction over the Middle East....with Israel.....and them running the world.....after taking the US, and the rest of the world as we know it, to its knees. Note: you can include the Bilderbergs, corps, etc. in this group...though not Jewish, but certainly greedy monsters beyond control working in concert with the Khorzans. Don't believe me? I really don't give a you know what....because if the public doesn't wake up, we're going to have a "Hunger Games" world until 7 billion realize that just a few thousand with money, power, and control arranged all the world events to realize their goal.
The Khorzans, Jews from Europe, who own the banks(... (show quote)

If they really had that much power, don’t you think they’d already have ruled the world by now and destroyed all their enemies? This is an old, sour grapes argument and if any statistically significant number of one group of people are in finance it is because it is one occupation they have been allowed to pursue by cultural pressures – not because they are scheming to control the world.

Quote:
And, then, as with the law of the universe, the pendulum will swing as it always does.....and the 7 billion will turn on the 14 million Jewish and make the Holocaust look like a Sunday afternoon picnic. I would really h**e to see that happen because of the greed of a few. That's my prediction....and I am 70 years old, and have watched my country go from freedom to an armed state warring on the world for the benefit of a few greedy monsters whose only thoughts are more, more, more.....power, money, control, everything. Now, let me define that all Jewish are not of this ilk.....just this minute number of sociopathic psychopaths who just happen to have power. But, it is for the benefit of Israel, the country they literally created.....And, while you're figuring what to write to send me to hell....consider, since the law was reversed in '94 concerning dual citizens holding US offices....you might google how many Jewish US citizens hold Israeli citizenship, too.....and are in offices that are usually in conflict of interest to our country. My country....YOUR country has been sold to the highest bidder.......parceled off to entities who wish us the worst and plan for it every day.....continuing centuries of an ongoing conspiracy to ens***e the world. Wake UP! Let me add that for centuries, war has been the most profitable enterprise on earth. AND.....guess who finances all the wars.....the BIS, the IMF......of course the military industrial complex makes a bundle, too......and then, they finance reconstruction. It's quite a lucrative ploy they've pulled on the world. Add the drug trade and, gee, they make trillions. Britain began that with the Opium Wars in China in the 1800's and continues it today....I am glad that I am 70.....I fear for my country and the world. BUT.....it the American public EVER wakes up and takes action, this will not happen. At least, I can hope. oldladyfromwaco
And, then, as with the law of the universe, the pe... (show quote)

As the Israel emigrants age, the younger Israeli’s born there begin to realize they are the same race as the Palestinians but have a different religious belief. Miki Peled http://mikopeled.com/ has a viewpoint that will likely be embraced by his countrymen. Instead of the status quo resulting in some horror story, I’m hoping the minority there will no longer accept their “country club” status and will embrace a secular state that recognizes all faiths.

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Nov 9, 2013 02:57:52   #
BigMike Loc: yerington nv
 
rumitoid wrote:
Ok, and I agree; facts back that up.


Yay! We have consensus! Er...what were we talking about?? :lol:

Reply
Nov 9, 2013 03:04:02   #
BigMike Loc: yerington nv
 
UncleJesse wrote:
This is a refreshing to read this post but before it veers off to extremism, here are some comments to consider:


As the Israel emigrants age, the younger Israeli’s born there begin to realize they are the same race as the Palestinians but have a different religious belief. Miki Peled http://mikopeled.com/ has a viewpoint that will likely be embraced by his countrymen. Instead of the status quo resulting in some horror story, I’m hoping the minority there will no longer accept their “country club” status and will embrace a secular state that recognizes all faiths.
This is a refreshing to read this post but before ... (show quote)


It takes two to tango, man! I, personally don't think we'll see a solution to a war that began with the sons of Abraham. Call me before we both die of old age and see if I'm not right.

Reply
 
 
Nov 9, 2013 07:59:03   #
bmac32 Loc: West Florida
 
Don't know, just don't know. The don't close the waterway at St. Johns for no reason for three days.


rumitoid wrote:
I have to take the Bush administration's admission of a lie as trumpimg everything, including the recent nonsense by King.

Reply
Nov 9, 2013 08:01:07   #
bmac32 Loc: West Florida
 
Nice talking points but it fails to answer my question, so Bin Laden was already dead?


Raylan Wolfe wrote:
Bush Lies About WMD's cost more than 2 Trillion and over 4,000 US Troops life's for absolutely nothing! And you compare that to Obama's lie!!

Reply
Nov 9, 2013 11:07:56   #
Glaucon
 
bmac32 wrote:
Nope government is not my solution, have not spent one dime of government money, it all went in savings! It's not deserved, it's paid for by my own taxes of 42 years. Will not touch that money for at least another 6 years if I last that long.

I never said someone shouldn't get a hand but whole families on it for years and the next generation and the next, it needs to stop. Woman with 9 kids, husband goes to jail and know she expects tax payers to pay because she never finished school.


You work so hard to no understand. If you are disabled, you deserve the help of your fellow Americans. I have no problem helping you with my tax money and I think that if the circumstances were reversed, you would do the same.

You don't have to go through all the defensive bull s**t by making up cases of ALLEGED free loaders. claiming that you are taking the money, but not spending it. YOU ARE AN AMERICAN. WE TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN. YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU ARE GETTING AND YOU OWE NO ONE AN APOLOGY OR EXPLANATION. NOW, DON'T WORK SO HARD TO PREVENT DESERVING, HUNGRY CHILDREN FROM GETTING SCHOOL LUNCHES.

Reply
Nov 9, 2013 11:57:23   #
UncleJesse Loc: Hazzard Co, GA
 
BigMike wrote:
It takes two to tango, man! I, personally don't think we'll see a solution to a war that began with the sons of Abraham. Call me before we both die of old age and see if I'm not right.


When the son of an Israeli general, Miko Pelad, can think rationally, there is hope for all of them. It is an interesting how he tells of his mother recalling how they all lived in peace in the suburbs of Jerusalem before the army relocated most of her neighbors. She was so disgusted with the army that she refused to accept the house of a Palestinian neighbor. It is interesting however, that she married an Israeli general. It is a tell to me, that while she believes it was wrong and understands the Palestinian acts of desperation, like everyone else, she wants protection and security for her family. A two-state solution will gain traction as well as international courts investigating past state security actions. That will cause the one state solution that Miko Pelad writes about. I think it is inevitable with so many Israeli's living in East Jerusalem and the West Bank. They won't want to relocate under a two-state solution but a one-state solution will let them keep their homes. It will grow into the United States of the Levant or United Abraham Levant States in the next generation.

Reply
 
 
Nov 9, 2013 22:09:11   #
BigMike Loc: yerington nv
 
UncleJesse wrote:
When the son of an Israeli general, Miko Pelad, can think rationally, there is hope for all of them. It is an interesting how he tells of his mother recalling how they all lived in peace in the suburbs of Jerusalem before the army relocated most of her neighbors. She was so disgusted with the army that she refused to accept the house of a Palestinian neighbor. It is interesting however, that she married an Israeli general. It is a tell to me, that while she believes it was wrong and understands the Palestinian acts of desperation, like everyone else, she wants protection and security for her family. A two-state solution will gain traction as well as international courts investigating past state security actions. That will cause the one state solution that Miko Pelad writes about. I think it is inevitable with so many Israeli's living in East Jerusalem and the West Bank. They won't want to relocate under a two-state solution but a one-state solution will let them keep their homes. It will grow into the United States of the Levant or United Abraham Levant States in the next generation.
color=green When the son of an Israeli general, M... (show quote)


We'll see.

Reply
Jan 20, 2014 18:35:18   #
Glaucon
 
NEW MANGAGED THREAD
Title: Understanding the Politics of America's Political Right.
Purpose: To discuss and understand Republicans, conservatives, and right wing extremists, their values, motives, and beliefs.
Participant would be from a variety of political points of view and interests. All views welcome and respected, conservative, liberal, and extreme right wing, and others, but please no trolls.
I would like to get more participants on this thread. I think we can be most effective with no more than thirty so that all can be heard. Refer your friends and invite new people. The more diversity of opinion, the better for me, but please no trolls. limited number of participants

Reply
Jan 21, 2014 12:09:33   #
oldladyfromwaco
 
Uncle Jesse, you seem to have taken one of my posts....or extracted from several. If you would research what I have written, you would find that it is accurate.
I realize that there are many, many facets to this situation, each one varying with the individual involved and his opinion.
As far as Bush is concerned, his plan was presented as the Project for the New American Century....in 1997.....but NEVER mentioned during the campaign. Do you think the American public would have v**ed for him is they knew that.....
1. The first requirement was Bush's e******n
2. The second was that there be some horrific event by which the American public would surrender their rights
3. Iraq would be hit
4. The rest of the ME would fall to US/British (The Crown) control....including Saudi Arabia?
This little goodie of a plan for ruling the world for the next century was put together by the Neo-Cons and follows the world domination of the Karzars, Swiss bankers, corps, billionaires (Bilderbergs), etc.
We could discuss this forever....but I stand on history.....and, since you've been on this site for a while, you've probably seen my post of Menachem Begin's statement.....which I will re-post....along with a couple of others......

David Rockefeller said, “Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”

"If the American people knew what we had done to this country, we would be chased down the streets and lynched". George Bush to Sarah McClendon, 1992

Menachem Begin's statement on the "master race":
"Our race (speaking of the Jews) is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best.
Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our s***es."

Now, I know that some will attempt to refute Begin's statement. He said it. I heard it. It was broadcast in the US at a time when there was great discussion about Israeli influence in US government.....and the law forbidding dual citizens from holding US office was removed in 94.....so, now, our government is run for the benefit of Israel....and those, the Kharzans who own the Bank of International Settlements, the International Monetary Fund, and the Federal Reserves around the world.....and who finance and profit from ALL wars....all reconstructions.....and reap the benefits by setting up Federal Reserves in countries overtaken.....
Jesse, I am not against anyone as a group, faith, ethnicity, etc......but I am against a group using the faith, ethnicity, Christianity of the world, the United States of America, etc. to accomplish their goals of world domination.

I made the comment to someone on another site that perhaps it's time the Jews, particularly the Kharzars, realized God loves us all....after all, He did create us....each and every one....or we would not be here.

Life and how we live it is a personal choice. We can build a world in peace.....if wars were not so readily financed by these for their own profit.....or we can destroy the world....and reduce the population from over 7 billion to under a billion to suit this minute number of individuals and their greed. What is your choice. To deny the progression of these actions is like a ostrich with its head in the sand. Believe me, the public says, "I can't believe that can happen...here!"
So did the Germans......and even the German Jews....as they were loaded into the box cars.
As for O, I worked every night during his first campaign at the county office....for him....and v**ed for him.....but he has taken by executive order more rights and liberties than any previous president.....I want my country back.....along with ALL my rights, liberties, and freedoms.....
I want the United States of America to stand on its own and for itself and its people......since we are NOT the United States of Israel and America.

The new Fed chairman is a dual citizen.....check out how many in our government are.



UncleJesse wrote:
This is a refreshing to read this post but before it veers off to extremism, here are some comments to consider:


As the Israel emigrants age, the younger Israeli’s born there begin to realize they are the same race as the Palestinians but have a different religious belief. Miki Peled http://mikopeled.com/ has a viewpoint that will likely be embraced by his countrymen. Instead of the status quo resulting in some horror story, I’m hoping the minority there will no longer accept their “country club” status and will embrace a secular state that recognizes all faiths.
This is a refreshing to read this post but before ... (show quote)

Reply
Jan 21, 2014 12:20:37   #
oldladyfromwaco
 
When the US takes care of itself, and tells Israel to make some attempts to get along with others.....as they have done in history at times and stops warring and supporting them around the world......there will be far less war.
When the US reinstates the Banking Act of 1933 and strengthens it.....and kicks the Fed out of this country, things will change.
The Fed can destroy this country in one fell swoop....by simply raising the interest rate....and lowering the money supply. Britain couldn't conquer the US militarily in the 1700's or in 1812....but they've done it with the Federal Reserve.
Perhaps you don't recall that that was threatened before we were almost forced to go into Syria.....in reality, just like Afghanistan.....for one of Cheney's companies, Genie Oil, to build a pipeline.....
Putin pulled O's fanny out of the fire on that.....but look at all pushing for any way possible to still war on Iran.....when the US public wants peace.

Israel will NEVER stop until they control it alllllll.....the entire world.....I hope you like "Hunger Games"......because it will be here if we do not stop this insanity.
The US can save the world by standing up and returning to the beliefs and practices we employed before the Second World War.......before we lost control to the MI complex.....
But, we should go back to 1913....when the Federal Reserve was v**ed in......
What followed that till 1929 and the Crash took place again between 1991 when the BA of 1933 was removed.....

The source is The Crown, the Kharzars....the insatiable greed and desire for power of a few for all there is on earth.....the love of money and power over humanity and earth.




UncleJesse wrote:
When the son of an Israeli general, Miko Pelad, can think rationally, there is hope for all of them. It is an interesting how he tells of his mother recalling how they all lived in peace in the suburbs of Jerusalem before the army relocated most of her neighbors. She was so disgusted with the army that she refused to accept the house of a Palestinian neighbor. It is interesting however, that she married an Israeli general. It is a tell to me, that while she believes it was wrong and understands the Palestinian acts of desperation, like everyone else, she wants protection and security for her family. A two-state solution will gain traction as well as international courts investigating past state security actions. That will cause the one state solution that Miko Pelad writes about. I think it is inevitable with so many Israeli's living in East Jerusalem and the West Bank. They won't want to relocate under a two-state solution but a one-state solution will let them keep their homes. It will grow into the United States of the Levant or United Abraham Levant States in the next generation.
color=green When the son of an Israeli general, M... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Feb 27, 2014 21:46:32   #
Glaucon
 
bmac32 wrote:
When the weapons h****rs failed to find stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so began one of the greatest slanders on a president in history: "Bush lied, people died."

Never mind that, in building the case for war in Iraq, President George W. Bush relied on the unanimous opinion of all 16 U.S. intelligence agencies.

Never mind that the bipartisan Robb-Silberman commission examined the intelligence on which Bush relied, and unanimously found that "the Intelligence Community did not make or change any analytic judgments in response to political pressure. ... We conclude that it was the paucity of intelligence and poor analytical tradecraft, rather than political pressure, that produced the inaccurate pre-war intelligence assessments."

Never mind that Bush retained the same CIA director, George Tenet, who served under Bill Clinton. Tenet gave Bush the same intelligence assessment: that Saddam Hussein, the dictator of Iraq, possessed WMD is a "slam dunk." Indeed, according to The Washington Post's Bob Woodward, Bush was initially skeptical of the intelligence that reached that conclusion. When, on December 21, 2002, Tenet laid out the intelligence purportedly showing the existence of WMD stockpiles, Bush said, "This is the best we've got?"

Never mind that former secretary of State Hillary Clinton, then a New York senator, was particularly adamant about the threat posed by Saddam: "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical- and biological-weapons stock, his missile-delivery capability and his nuclear program. ... If left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."

Finally, never mind about then-President Bill Clinton's Persian Gulf expert on the National Security Council, Kenneth Pollack. While he opposed the war's timing, Pollack said "no one doubted" Saddam's stockpiles of WMD: "The intelligence community convinced me and the rest of the Clinton Administration that Saddam had reconstituted his WMD programs following the withdrawal of the U.N. inspectors, in 1998, and was only a matter of years away from having a nuclear weapon. ... Other nations' intelligence services were similarly aligned with U.S. views. ... Germany ... Israel, Russia, Britain, China and even France held positions similar to that of the United States. ... In sum, no one doubted that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction."

"Bush lied, people died" -- or some version of it -- was uttered at the highest levels in the opposition party. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., called W. a "loser" and a "liar." He later apologized -- for the "loser" part. Liar stands. The so-called Lion of the Senate, Ted Kennedy, bellowed, "Before the war, week after week after week after week, we were told lie after lie after lie after lie."

If Bush is a "liar," having relied in good faith on the unanimous opinion of the U.S. intelligence agencies, what do you call President Barack Obama? In building the case for Obamacare, Obama promised: "No matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what."

Did Obama "lie"?

Obama's health care team, according to NBC News, knew that more than half of the people who buy their plans on the individual market would lose their plan: "Millions of Americans are getting or are about to get cancellation letters for their health insurance under Obamacare, say experts, and the Obama administration has known that for at least three years."

NBC News' sources estimated that 50 to 80 percent of Americans who buy individual insurance will find their policies cancelled, because those existing policies don't meet Obamacare standards. And for many of those -- now forced to buy new policies -- the price tag will give them "sticker shock."

The Affordable Care Act stated that an insurance policy in effect before March 23, 2010, was to be grandfathered in -- provided insurance companies have made no "significant change" to the plan. But if the plan, say, had a change to the deductible, co-pay or benefits, the plan was no longer eligible to be grandfathered, and the policyholder would have to purchase a new plan.

Obamacare's July 2010 regulations included an estimate that "40 to 67 percent" of customers wouldn't be able to keep their policy because of normal annual turnover in the individual insurance market. And, because many policies will have been changed since the March 23, 2010, date, "the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range." Yet Obama continued to tell Americans that no one would lose their plan or doctor, a promise without which Obamacare would never have passed.

For his part, Obama (SET ITAL) now (END ITAL) says: "What we said was, you can keep it if it hasn't changed since the law passed." A lie is an unt***h told with intent to deceive.

Bush didn't "lie."
When the weapons h****rs failed to find stockpiles... (show quote)

If you say Bush didn't lie, it is difficult not to believe you, since you surely wouldn't offer such an opinion unless you were there while we were deciding to go to war on bogus information.

Bush awarded the head of his spy agency, the one who supposedly gave him the totally false information, the highest civilian medal. The top spy who supposedly gave Bush the false information regarding WMD hasn't written a book about how all this happened. Was he bought and paid for to keep his mouth shut? I don't know for sure either.

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Feb 27, 2014 22:39:13   #
bmac32 Loc: West Florida
 
You talking about retired general Tommy Franks, former CIA Director George Tenet and former US administrator in Iraq L. Paul Bremer? Which?

Complete list of all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:P**********l_Medal_of_Freedom_recipients



Glaucon wrote:
If you say Bush didn't lie, it is difficult not to believe you, since you surely wouldn't offer such an opinion unless you were there while we were deciding to go to war on bogus information.

Bush awarded the head of his spy agency, the one who supposedly gave him the totally false information, the highest civilian medal. The top spy who supposedly gave Bush the false information regarding WMD hasn't written a book about how all this happened. Was he bought and paid for to keep his mouth shut? I don't know for sure either.
If you say Bush didn't lie, it is difficult not to... (show quote)

Reply
Feb 27, 2014 23:24:07   #
Glaucon
 
George Tenet was in charge of spying and intelligence and Bush said the information was bogus and then gave tenet the medal of Freedom. George has kept his mouth shut what do you make of that?

Reply
Feb 28, 2014 00:07:53   #
bmac32 Loc: West Florida
 
Just maybe you should enlighten yourself a bit.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/themes/tenet.html


Glaucon wrote:
George Tenet was in charge of spying and intelligence and Bush said the information was bogus and then gave tenet the medal of Freedom. George has kept his mouth shut what do you make of that?

Reply
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