jay-are

In a post on another topic on this forum, a poster lauded the inerrancy of the Bible and advocated for believing in its inspiration from God.

Yet, when it comes to the issue of divorce and remarriage, he was more than willing to throw out the Bible and look to the precepts of men for what he was willing to accept as t***h.

Jesus himself said:
Luke 16
18 “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.

What is it about the divorce / remarriage issue that causes people to reject the Biblical commands, and the law from the Bible, and the definition of the institution of marriage given in the Bible? Why are we so eager to throw out the commandment against adultery, but we keep all the other commandments?

Some possibilities include,
the devil is influencing us,
we are not really Christians, but false Christians,
we sacrifice some strictness in our interpretation to gain more numbers in our congregations,
we sacrifice some strictness in our interpretation to gain more cash in the collection plate.

The devil knows that the family is the foundational unit upon which all civilization is built. If he can influence even those in God's church to willingly accept the destruction of the fundamental family unit, he hopes to cause all of civilization to crumble. The real jewels in his crown of destruction are the Christians who follow him. Of course they are not really Christians, they are the false prophets Jesus warned us about in Matthew 7 (the sermon on the Mount), but to the unsaved world, when they see people who claim to be Christians doing it, their hesitation about it is completely removed. Thus, in this way, not only does the church crumble, it (the church) serves as a stumbling block to the rest of the world to keep them from finding the t***h of God's love and salvation.

What other reason could there be to reject Biblical t***h in favor of the precepts and the reasonings of earthly men?

The answer is that The Christian church should recognize that those who divorce and remarry are not Christians, not that they are Christians who sinned and are forgiven. If they were Christians they would follow the teaching of Christ, and the teaching in the Bible from both Christ and His disciples. If they were Christians who sinned, they would repent and stop, but if they persist in the adulterous relationship, they must be recognized as non-Christians.

To follow Biblical teaching, the church should stop associating with divorcers and remarryers and adulterers as Paul and John commanded.


I Corinthians 5

I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.

2 Thessalonians 3
6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us.

brethren, do not grow weary of doing good.
14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. 15 Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.


2 John 1
Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; 11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

This is why the Christian Church must not associate with those who divorce and remarry.

rumitoid

This exception is clearly stated in Matthew 19:9 (and 5:32).
"Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery" ("saving for the cause of fornication" - Matt. 5:32).

The question originally asked Jesus concerned the grounds or cause for which a man may divorce his wife (v3). In v9 Jesus clearly says there is no acceptable cause except if ones companion has been guilty of fornication.

Unlike the Mosaic Law, which Jesus admits tolerated divorce and remarriage for other causes, Jesus' teaching allows one and only one cause.

Note that the only one who is granted the right to divorce and remarry without being guilty of sin is the one who has been sinned against by his/her companion who committed fornication.

http://www.gospelway.com/family/divorce_remarriage.php

bluejacket

two comments on marriage and divorce -one both actions are controlled by secular law as it should be -two which Christian church are you talking about , there are many

jay-are

The one started by Jesus and His disciples.

jay-are

Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives:

to accurately understand this - first understand that Moses suffered them to put away their wives, not God.

Jesus goes on to say that from the beginning (when God made the rules) it was not so.

So Jesus is making it clear that divorce is not legal by God's law. It was "suffered" in other words, "allowed against my wishes" because the Pharisees' hearts were hardened against God, and Moses created an earthly, fleshly solution to the problem to satisfy the fleshly desires of those whose hearts are hardened against God.

Ok, that is the fleshly, worldly solution to the problem of the lawlessness of the Pharisees.

Then in verse 9, Jesus says the t***h from God is that when you divorce and remarry, you commit adultery. God's perspective is that you are breaking the law - committing adultery - not within the law because of a divorce certificate.

Since Jesus says they commit adultery, He tells us that He does not recognize the divorce as valid. If you were truly divorced you would not be commiting adultery. Since Jesus clearly uses the word adultery, He is saying that He believes you are still married to that first spouse even though you claim to be divorced.

That's God's perspective. That is the correct understanding of that passage. The first part is man's corrupt solution, and the second part is the t***h of how God sees it.

To understand the "except for fornication" phrase, I refer you to Matthew 1, and I Cor. 7:2

In Matthew 1 is an example of the Jewish tradition where betrothed are considered married, and are required to be virgins before the wedding. The except for fornication allows one spouse to divorce the other before wedding vows are exchanged if the other is found not to be a virgin (guilty of fornication). This interpretation is confirmed in I Cor. 7:2 when it says immorality is pre marital sex. See below.

Matthew 1
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit. 19 And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly. 20 But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.” 22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,”

I Corinthians 7
2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

Clearly in context, immoralities refers to sex before marriage.

Secondly, the word is immoralities, not adultery.

Adultery always means sex with someone other than your spouse. You have to have a spouse to commit adultery.

Fornication refers to sex between unmarried people, and is not the same thing as adultery.

jay-are

Except for fornication means fornication, not except for adultery. You won’t find “except for adultery” anywhere in the Bible.

Do you honestly believe Jesus did not know the meaning of the word fornication and that it is different than the meaning of the word adultery? You cannot prove that Jesus did not mean adultery when He said adultery, and you cannot prove that Jesus meant adultery when He said fornication. Look in any dictionary and you will see that everyone knows that fornication means sex between unmarried people. Adultery is sex between people who are married to someone other than the one they are having sex with or sex with someone who is married to someone else. These definitions are not in dispute.

For the Bible to be t***slated the way it is, is clear evidence that except for fornication does not mean except for adultery. To claim that is to try to deceive God’s people and trick them into following you down the wide road to Hell.

The reason the exception is not in the Luke and Mark quotes is because those books were written to Gentiles, not the Jews. Matthew was written to the Jews. Only the Jews considered "betrothed" couples to be married, and only the Jews required a certificate of divorce to allow a betrothed to avoid going to his wedding, and that was only allowed if his betrothed was proven to be not a virgin (a fornicator).

The lesson here is not that divorce and remarriage is allowed, it is that it is not allowed. Even a betrothed cannot refuse to go to the wedding and be married unless he proves the spouse is not a virgin. He must take this action before the wedding. If he accepts the non-virgin and goes ahead and marries her, the marriage is valid and he cannot divorce after that.

That is the t***h of the law. Divorce is only allowed before going through with the wedding. After the wedding, the commitment is lifelong.

The Gentiles don't need that allowance, since they are not considered married when they are only betrothed.

And also consider Paul's quote about Jewish law in Romans 7:2-3, and I Corinthian 7:39. He makes no exception for adultery in those passages either.

rumitoid

What is fornication?
Definitions: "illicit sexual intercourse in general" (Thayer); "every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse" (Arndt and Gingrich). Fornication includes any form of sexual intercourse with anyone other than ones scriptural spouse, regardless of whether that person be of the opposite sex or of the same sex. Note passages that explain the meaning:

1 Corinthians 7:2-5 - To avoid fornication, one is to satisfy the sexual desire with and only with "his own wife" or "her own husband." Our own marriage companion is the only one who has power over our body. If we satisfy this desire with anyone else, the passage says it would be fornication, whether it be with someone we are not married to, someone else's husband or wife, or someone else of the same sex (i.e., homosexuality). (See also Heb. 13:4).

Jude 7 - Sodom and Gomorrah gave themselves over to fornication. But Gen. 19 shows this refers to homosexuality (men wanted to lie with men, not with women) ["and going after strange flesh" has the significance of even going after...]. Therefore, homosexuality is a form of fornication, and would be scriptural grounds for one's companion to obtain a divorce and remarry.

Some say fornication would not include adultery (i.e., the case in which one who is married has relations with someone not their spouse). But the following passages use "fornication" to include extra-marital sex: 1 Cor. 5:1; Amos 7:17; Ezek. 16:8,15,26,29; Jer. 3:6,8. Jesus used "fornication" in order to include, not just extra-marital sex, but also premarital sex and homosexuality - any form of illicit sexual intercourse.

jay-are

Thanks for posting. The reader can decide who makes the most sense. Or which they will accept as t***h.

jay-are

Why did Paul write Romans 7:2-3, and I Corinthians 7:10-11, 39? Wasn't Paul taught by Jesus? How did he miss the memo about except for adultery?

Why did Jesus leave no room for exceptions in Luke 16:18, and Mark 10:1-12?

jay-are

_______________________________
Even if I accept that, which I don't, does adultery include fornication?

When Jesus says "adultery" isn't He saying that the person is not single, and therefore, not divorced?

Makr

The attitude is this, Christianity is not a smorgasbord, and there is "great rewards for staying", for everyone involved. the attitude of " he won't send us to hell, were all doing it", is inaccurate...Apostasy is the loss of faith, and the thing between the legs is guiding these folks around til they make choices, and the government allows it...WAKE

jay-are

_______________________________
And what about the church being a stumbling block to the rest of the world if they allow their members to divorce and remarry just like the non-Christians do?

Why shouldn't that be an important consideration and reason why Christians should not allow divorce and remarriage within the church, and why Christians should not associate with those who divorce and remarry, as Paul and John commanded?

John wrote:
for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

Shouldn't that be important to Christians, not participating in evil deeds?

jetson

Sure, adultery is a terrible sin. King David, was probably the Bible's worst one. He even had the adulteress husband put on the front battle line to be k**led. Then married her. Yet, God forgave him. We over look the love of God. Remember the adulteress woman, Jesus Christ, forgave her sin. When no one, without sin could throw the first stone. It doesn't matter about adultery, murder, stealing etc. God will forgive any sin, except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. The Bible states this. This is the sin the Pharisee committed. They attributed the work that Christ did, through the Holy Spirit to Satan. He called them blasphemers. The greatest thing sending people to hell is, refusing to accept Christ as their Savior. No where in the Bible does it say adultery will dammed you to hell. By, not repenting of it or any other sin will sent you just as well. Sin is sin.

jay-are

How can you accept Christ as your savior and refuse to follow His teaching?

Christ said if you don't do what He says, not that you are condemned for those sins, but that he never knew you. You are not one of His sheep.

A true child of His would follow His teachings.

In His first major speech, Jesus said,

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”

Can you say you know better than Jesus who will be saved?

jay-are

In other words, I am not saying that you cannot be forgiven for your sins. You surely can, as David was.

But David will be in Heaven because of God's choice to choose David, not because of David's choice to choose God, or because of how good or bad David lived his life on earth.

The sins are just indicators to the rest of us mortals who are God's children, and who are not. God knows who he is going to choose to be with Him in heaven.

Read Romans 9. Paul explains this in detail.

And Jesus also addressed this issue of sins being indicators of whether or not we are His sheep as follows:

16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Your sins can be forgiven, but they are some sort of indicator of whether you are truly saved or not. You have to ask the Holy Spirit for guidance in understanding exactly what that means to you personally.