Single Payer and the Patient (Page 3): When you say emergency rooms are the most expensive care you are conflating price and cost. When you say the ACA saves money you'd need to...

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

AnnMarie wrote:

They put out bids, but all the anesthesia machine ... (show quote)

When you say emergency rooms are the most expensive care you are conflating price and cost.

When you say the ACA saves money you'd need to believe that Obama is a messiah. The CBO is constrained in many ways about how they calculate things, and HAVE NEVER BEEN CORRECT in any of their projections in the past.

To believe we can increase the quantity and quality of health care while reducing the costs by adding IRS agents is to believe in the Tooth Fairy. To decrease the cost of any economic good there has to be an increae in either efficiency or generation. If you believe more IRS agents and Navigators increase either your believe is more akin to religous than intellectual faith.

AnnMarie Loc: Madison, Wi

vernon wrote:

your right ,they write contracts to fit a certain business so their friends get the job

Yes, very often that is true, but the price difference cannot be that great or the department has to write a justification that is subject to review. In practice, they can direct a bid to a certain company, but the price of the selected company must be within reason, unless they can award a No bid contract, like the medicare pharmacy award, or Halliburtin. No bid contracts should be outlawed in my view.

vernon

AnnMarie wrote:

True about China-what has happened is that prices ... (show quote)

yes like 700$ toilets and 500$ hammers who are you kidding.

AnnMarie Loc: Madison, Wi

Dave wrote:

When you say emergency rooms are the most expensiv... (show quote)

Taking care of chronic conditons before they require an ER visit, surgery, or hospitalization is EXACTLY an increase in efficiency.

VladimirPee

So lower pricing leads to job losses to China? Not a good thing. Here in NJ we have a very healthy Medical Industry with Johnson and Johnson, Merck, Shering Plough and other major companies. They provide a very healthy middle class standard of living. So cheaper will have its affects on the economy. Its a chain reaction

AnnMarie wrote:

True about China-what has happened is that prices ... (show quote)

AnnMarie Loc: Madison, Wi

vernon wrote:

yes like 700$ toilets and 500$ hammers who are you kidding.

As I said in my post, not talking about the Pentagon, talking medical equipment, they only basis of my experince.

bmac32 Loc: West Florida

Yep, saw that one first hand, product was sent to Mexico, gov't needed 8 millions in 30 days, said product was a low level lense, everything was just mine until the gov't added one little thing, they had to be made here. Company shipped all molds and equipment back here so they could be made in the time frame that they were needed. That was their last time they dealt with the gov't.

vernon wrote:

your right ,they write contracts to fit a certain business so their friends get the job

AnnMarie Loc: Madison, Wi

DennisDee wrote:

So lower pricing leads to job losses to China? Not a good thing. Here in NJ we have a very healthy Medical Industry with Johnson and Johnson, Merck, Shering Plough and other major companies. They provide a very healthy middle class standard of living. So cheaper will have its affects on the economy. Its a chain reaction

Drug companies are much more profitable than equipment companies. In our case, yes, lower prices lead to jobs moving overseas. Good for NJ, we need all the middle class jobs we can get. Congrats on marriage e******y as well.

VladimirPee

Actually there is rationing. Who finally admitted this? Your very own far left Democrat physician Dr. Howard Dean in a recent OP-ED in the Wall Street Journal. Sarah is smarter than all the libs

I quote
"One major problem is the so-called Independent Payment Advisory Board. The IPAB is essentially a health-care rationing body. By setting doctor reimbursement rates for Medicare and determining which procedures and drugs will be covered and at what price, the IPAB will be able to stop certain treatments its members do not favor by simply setting rates to levels where no doctor or hospital will perform them"

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324110404578628542498014414

AnnMarie wrote:

Not true. No care rationing. Do you think there is rationing of healthcare on Medicare?? That has been working for 60 years of government SINGLE PAYER no less. Nobody k**led off the sick and infirm for the last 60 years. That is 60 years of experience! Who is blind to that??? Sarah pulled that death panel crap out of her ass. You are on medicare, your healthcare is not changing. STOP WORRYING.

AnnMarie Loc: Madison, Wi

bmac32 wrote:

Yep, saw that one first hand, product was sent to Mexico, gov't needed 8 millions in 30 days, said product was a low level lense, everything was just mine until the gov't added one little thing, they had to be made here. Company shipped all molds and equipment back here so they could be made in the time frame that they were needed. That was their last time they dealt with the gov't.

yes, the requirement for medical equipment for the government hospitals in the same, product MUST be made in the US. This is well known in medical bidding, not snuck in in the last minute. The Chinese company cannot bid on government deals.

VladimirPee

The Obama medical device tax should help us be more competitive with China right?

AnnMarie wrote:

Drug companies are much more profitable than equipment companies. In our case, yes, lower prices lead to jobs moving overseas. Good for NJ, we need all the middle class jobs we can get. Congrats on marriage e******y as well.

bmac32 Loc: West Florida

Just maybe you need to get a copy and read it. At 75 benefits almost disappear, need a knee, need a hip well that 40 year old gets it not the 75 year old.

Your mixing the best of ACA, single payer and Medicare them you couple it with 'nobody k**led off the sick in the last 60 years'. Your right on that but ACA isn't over the last 60 years it's today.

AnnMarie wrote:

Not true. No care rationing. Do you think there is rationing of healthcare on Medicare?? That has been working for 60 years of government SINGLE PAYER no less. Nobody k**led off the sick and infirm for the last 60 years. That is 60 years of experience! Who is blind to that??? Sarah pulled that death panel crap out of her ass. You are on medicare, your healthcare is not changing. STOP WORRYING.

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

AnnMarie wrote:

Never said profits were evil. Reseach is based on... (show quote)

Even if we accept your entire premise - that only socialized medicene monitors the efficacy of competing drugs (and one example hardly proves that) you seek again the radical solution of socializing the entire industry to solve a problem. The drug industry is one of the most regulated industries in America - and at best your argument is to modify the regulation - not nationalize the industry.

AnnMarie Loc: Madison, Wi

DennisDee wrote:

Drugs react differently with different people. I use Enalapril for hypertension. I pay $8.00 a prescription. Some people use Diovan. I want what works best for me. Not what some government panel decides is adequate based on costs

NOT based on costs. Wasn't a government panel. It was medical research, with double blind study. The Canadian study was done on a wide range of patients and was based on what lowered blood pressure most consistantly with the least side effects. The cheaper drug, in this case, won out. "Evidenced based medicine" is the heart of good patient care. Instead of doing what we always have done, medicine looks to studies to get evidence for what works the best.

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

AnnMarie wrote:

Not true. No care rationing. Do you think there is rationing of healthcare on Medicare?? That has been working for 60 years of government SINGLE PAYER no less. Nobody k**led off the sick and infirm for the last 60 years. That is 60 years of experience! Who is blind to that??? Sarah pulled that death panel crap out of her ass. You are on medicare, your healthcare is not changing. STOP WORRYING.

Medicare is not sustainable in its present form.

Palin did nothing more than make a logical extension of the panel called for in Obamacare - and her conclusion was exactly the same a doctor who once was govenor of a blue state and icon of the left.