If you had a choice.. (Page 2): RWNJ, I prefer to live in a universe where God exists and rewards the faithful and punishes sinners. I am faithful, while still a sinner.

righty Loc: Tenn

RWNJ, I prefer to live in a universe where God exists and rewards the faithful and punishes sinners. I am faithful, while still a sinner.

RWNJ

PaulPisces wrote:

I would never ask you to waver from your beliefs RWJN, and I support you making your own choice. But I find it arrogant for anyone to say I must believe the same or suffer eternal damnation.

It's not arrogance. It's compassion. We simply pass along Gods instructions for how one makes it to Heaven. Think of it this way. If someone was clinging to the edge of a cliff, wouldn't you offer them a hand? It's the same principle.

Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA

RWNJ wrote:

TROLL ALERT!

:thumbup:

Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA

PaulPisces wrote:

I would never ask you to waver from your beliefs RWJN, and I support you making your own choice. But I find it arrogant for anyone to say I must believe the same or suffer eternal damnation.

If someone was about to drive while extremely drunk but thought they were fine to drive, would it be arrogant to try to convince them not to drive?

It would be h**eful to allow them to drive, and loving to convince them not to.

Theo Loc: Within 1000 miles of Tampa, Florida

PaulPisces wrote:

Perhaps I am a bit unfair since I was raised in the Episcopalian tradition. I can't completely discount my past and what it taught me. But as an adult I can understand that a belief in a specific God is not required to choose to treat others fairly and with compassion. The people of Tibet have been living in an honorable way since the 5th century without belief in a specific God.

The Tibetan Society has a specific Deity for every facet of living, in much the same way Jehovah is a God of love, and vengeance, and justice, and wrath, and etc.

http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/tibetan-mythology.php?list-gods-names

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

Theo wrote:

The Tibetan Society has a specific Deity for every facet of living, in much the same way Jehovah is a God of love, and vengeance, and justice, and wrath, and etc.

http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/tibetan-mythology.php?list-gods-names

Certainly a more peaceful and self responsible type religion wouldn't you say??

I have a couple of Tibetan friends, who do practice their belief's in their every day society roll and their personal level of self preservation of the temple of the body....I am often calmed simply listening to them describing their beliefs and see what I do in their action...Calming, peaceful...Never rude or argumentative etc.."My back hurts why?? What burdon am I carrying that weighs me down?? I loved his reply when just sitting talking about every day things".. Just an small example that really made me think about his reply..

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

RWNJ wrote:

Would you want to live in a universe without God, and face oblivion when you die, or live in a universe where God exists and rewards the faithful and punishes sinners?

God exists whether anyone believes in Him or not. WE are not the reason for God's existence - God is the reason for OUR existence - so this question is entirely irrelevant.

Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA

lpnmajor wrote:

God exists whether anyone believes in Him or not. WE are not the reason for God's existence - God is the reason for OUR existence - so this question is entirely irrelevant.

Hypothetical questions have their uses.

We can't choose what kind of universe we live in while we're mortal, but we all choose the one we live in as immortals.

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

Super Dave wrote:

Hypothetical questions have their uses.

We can't choose what kind of universe we live in while we're mortal, but we all choose the one we live in as immortals.

True, but what happens here doesn't affect the afterlife. It's what choices the individual makes that does. Even a Mexican drug cartel member can go to heaven, if they've made the right spiritual choice, but one would have to wonder why they remain in the cartel - if they've made the right choice - but THAT is between them and God.

Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA

lpnmajor wrote:

True, but what happens here doesn't affect the afterlife. It's what choices the individual makes that does. Even a Mexican drug cartel member can go to heaven, if they've made the right spiritual choice, but one would have to wonder why they remain in the cartel - if they've made the right choice - but THAT is between them and God.

That's true. If Bin Laden found Christ just before he was shot, he's now as pure as Mother Theresa. The blood of Christ has no limits.

And yes, it is between the individual and God. I don't recall anyone saying otherwise, if that was your inference.

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

Super Dave wrote:

That's true. If Bin Laden found Christ just before he was shot, he's now as pure as Mother Theresa. The blood of Christ has no limits.

And yes, it is between the individual and God. I don't recall anyone saying otherwise, if that was your inference.

It sounded like, if the USA abandoned God, no Americans could go to heaven. It doesn't work that way.

We do know, that at the end, the world will abandon God in favor of the anti -Christ - but the path to heaven won't change at all. Even during the tribulation, some folks will find God. They'll just get to go see him much earlier. ;-)

RWNJ

lpnmajor wrote:

It sounded like, if the USA abandoned God, no Americans could go to heaven. It doesn't work that way.

We do know, that at the end, the world will abandon God in favor of the anti -Christ - but the path to heaven won't change at all. Even during the tribulation, some folks will find God. They'll just get to go see him much earlier. ;-)

I've always wondered about that. Many Christians believe that the dead are asleep. That there is a total lack of awareness. I believe that all believers in Christ sleep until the day of the Resurrection. The Bible says that the dead in Christ shall rise first. Rise from what? If we went to Heaven when we died, there would be no need for a Resurrection. Would there? Well. That's my take on the subject. Feel free to disagree.

BigJim

People wonder about trusting an atheist. I would say how can you trust anyone who believes his sins will be forgiven.

RWNJ

BigJim wrote:

People wonder about trusting an atheist. I would say how can you trust anyone who believes his sins will be forgiven.

Christians are aware of the fact they will be judged by God for their sins. An atheist believes that there are no eternal consequences for their actions.

I know who I would rather trust.

PaulPisces Loc: San Francisco

RWNJ wrote:

It's not arrogance. It's compassion. We simply pass along Gods instructions for how one makes it to Heaven. Think of it this way. If someone was clinging to the edge of a cliff, wouldn't you offer them a hand? It's the same principle.

I truly appreciate both your and Super Dave's concern for my spiritual well-being. And I admire the depth of your faith and hope it always manifests in good things in this life and wh**ever comes after.

But your comparisons are not really valid. The consequences of losing one's grip on the edge of a cliff or driving drunk are well-documented in the real world. The consequences of believing/not believing in God in the structure of the Christian faith is a matter of just that...faith. Faith in the unseen and unproven, based purely on ancient texts that may or may not represent real events.

Then main issue I have with any belief system is when it presents itself as an absolute that puts Creation and God in a rather restrictive box, casting non-believers as incorrect or cast out. We certainly see the results of this kind of absolutism in the Middle East now. I believe God and Creation are bigger than that and I am quite comfortable with the ambiguity of differing beliefs.