Thinkmanvt

Meaning what (in response to my post about the stripping of Christian images off government buildings)? It is being done to Christian images, and not to Islamic images, because only the Christian images are there (for solid historical reasons).

Homestead

Let's start with the recently proved, that is that Barak Obama used forged papers to prove his identity. The only two pieces of paper provided, by Obama, to prove who he is, are both forged.
Where in the constitution does it give the president of the United States the right to commit felony fraud to gain access to the white house?

Too controversial?

What about the GM Bailout:
http://www.creators.com/opinion/terence-jeffrey/the-illegal-unconstitutional-bush-obama-auto-bailout.html

Because Congress did not authorize the president to spend money bailing out automakers, the president is not authorized to spend money bailing out automakers.

Or as the Constitution puts it, "No money shall be drawn from the treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law."

As Bush pondered using TARP to bail out automakers after having been denied the authority to do so, some honest observers — both liberal and conservative — said such a move would be illegal and unconstitutional.

"Even if the administration were inclined to do so, it simply lacks the power under the statute passed by Congress to tap TARP funds to prop up auto manufacturers," Heritage Foundation analysts Andrew Grossman and James Gattuso concluded in a Dec. 12 WebMemo.

"Call me old-fashioned, but I believe in democracy," former Clinton Labor Secretary Robert Reich said Dec. 17 on the "Marketplace" public-radio show. "And under our Constitution, Congress is in charge of appropriating taxpayer money. If Congress explicitly decides not to appropriate it for a certain purpose, where does the White House get the right to do so anyway?"


And where in the Constitution does Obama have the right to bypass bondholders and break hundreds of years of contract law?

http://lonelyconservative.com/2010/11/bailout-of-gm-was-a-boon-for-the-union-old-bondholders-still-suffer/
The generous share of GM stock given to the union trust fund under the White House deal puts it not only ahead of the Treasury but on a par with secured creditors such as banks, which normally receive the most favorable treatment from bankruptcy courts.

Perhaps the biggest losers are the investors in the old GM. None of the bankrupt company’s previous stockholders got any money, while the claims of thousands of investors who purchased the company’s bonds are still being kicked around in a Manhattan bankruptcy court.



Then there's fast and furious, holder's problem until Obama invoked executive privilege, demonstrating that he was involved.

Obama has the power of executive order, but, that is to enforce the laws written by congress, because Obama is the executive branch, not the legislative branch. Obama cannot write legislation using executive orders.

Then we got NASA spying on citizens. Obama took an oath to defend against that and despite his denials, the investigations are getting closer to the White House and Obama.

We have the IRS targeting political adversaries of Obama and again despite the denials the investigations are getting closer to the White House and Obama.

Then there's B******i and his cover up and stalling of that and the possibility that it was another gun running s**m like fast and furious, only on steroids.

Now he wants to give weapons to the same terrorist who took down the Twin Towers and he needs to ignore the law that's there to prevent exactly that kind of thing.

Here's just one link to a list of Obama's impeachable ofenses:

UPDATE: 'Obama's Impeachable Offenses' by Michael Connelly, J.D.
http://www.redf**gnews.com/opinion/obamas-impeachable-offenses-updated-by-michael-connelly-jd-carrollton-tx

rumitoid

Sorry for the delay. Thank you, I appreciate that a lot.

Thinkmanvt

Homestead wrote:
The way the Constitution was set up, the congress ran the country and the people ran congress, both directly by themselves or indirectly through the states.

If you don't think Obama has usurped the Constitution and is bypassing congress and running this country through the presidency, you have not been paying attention.

Thinkmanvt wrote:
OK, pick one example for discussion so that I can follow what your reasoning is. Despite what some have labeled me, I really am trying to figure how I have come into disagreement with so many people.
...



OK, you have me on this one. I do not know what you are directly referencing. Was there a court order to provide proof of citizenship and he responded perjuriously with forged documents? {Like the impeachment charge against Clinton for lying under oath about his extramarital relationships.} Or is there a paperwork requirement to run for US President to present such proof of birth and he (his campaign) provided the false documents you cited? While I do not doubt his citizenship and Hawaiian birth, I also am unaware of a felony he has committed. It would be an impeachable offense like Nixon's Watergate involvements. But it is not an usurpation of Constitutional power or bypassing Congress which was the original paragraph of yours I was hoping to dissect. If true, it is simply criminal.

So, I am going to look a little further for one topic to dissect (first, and maybe come back for others later.)



I like this one, by far your most detailed. It seems to clearly reference a bypass of Congressional intent (or even direct prohibition). Again, I am attempting to start small in understanding the data you are processing that, as you suggest, I have not paid attention to. This roughly matches such a category because I was truly unaware of the Congressional restrictions on the TARP funds against an auto industry bailout.

I understand the "troubled asset" phrase confusing well-intended members of Bush and Obama administration into thinking of the impact the failure of the auto industries would have to be economically widespread (and economics=finance in some loose way of thinking). But the pre-e******n debate presumably clarified the Part B instructions to the Secretary of the Treasury and the Federal Reserve Chairman on what could be included. I would agree that if the executive branch lawyers and wonks came to a different conclusion of the authorization allowing the auto bailout, they still would be bypassing legislative intent unless (1) they got a decision from the judiciary or (2) they requested and received reconsideration by the newly elected legislative body.

George Bush's executive order of 12/19/2008 asserted neither of those actions were necessary. The Treasury Secretary was authorized to spend TARP monies however he deemed necessary to alleviate the general financial crisis. The Bush administration began the Automotive Industry Finance Program in December 2008 during the t***sition between the e******n and the inauguration. Arguably, the auto industries did have a substantial investment in financing sales. The incoming administration cited (and did not rescind) Bush's executive order early in the Obama management of the TARP effort.

So, here your charge that I was paying insufficient attention to details may ring true. I do not know if the Obama administration did get a change of interpretation from the new Congress. I do not know whether they did more than continue the Bush AIFP with the TARP funds. Nor do I know if they went to Federal court to get a supporting opinion. Or if they defended in court some lawsuit that questioned their action to infuse TARP monies into the auto industries. I do not even remember Republicans suggesting then it was an illegal scheme (although I do remember several saying a Detroit collapse was going to be better than a bailout). But it does seem that Obama used the power of executive order to "interpret" the legislation in the same debatable fashion as Bush. Maybe impeachable if the lame-duck Bush could be impeached for the same overreach.

I think your next step in this (the Obama insistence on "longterm viability plans" before further TARP/AIFP money were given) may be the compounding element in your argument of a power grab.



Both GM and Chrysler went through bankruptcy, an ordinary judicial process (albeit an unusual outcome). While the Obama administration with the TARP/AIFP funds were a motivating factor in their corporate decisions to restructure and reemerge after bankruptcy (instead of just liquidating), the Obama administration did not unilaterally write the plans (by did have priorities it want before releasing the money). But the contractual obligations were undertaken by the corporations with the approval of the Courts. Certainly this is a flexing of executive power (with the TARP funds that might arguably not be authorized) but it did not bypass normal government process (with the Courts in this case). The Manhattan bondholder case mentioned as resolved via the normal judicial mechanism (and increased the bondholders' recovery sixfold). I did the shareholder took the axe which is the nature of capital gain/loss risk investment. That many of them were also employees (but perhaps not union members) is the same sort of financial tragedy as Enron's mismanagement and collapse. I think a charge of the administration having a principal objection of jobs, jobs, jobs in the restructuring can be made and is likely readily admitted by them. But the Congress does not have operational responsibility for implement the laws and budgets they enact -- the Constitution defines an Executive Branch for that. The TARP implementation was executive business, not a bypass of Congress (or the Judiciary).

But I want to understand what you have seen in this specific example (TARP/AIFP "abuses" ) before we get distracted by the many other items in your list. I see the hints of the handholds, but I have not seen your path through this matter that shows some bypass of Congress.

Homestead

[quote=Thinkmanvt]Homestead wrote:
The way the Constitution was set up, the congress ran the country and the people ran congress, both directly by themselves or indirectly through the states.

If you don't think Obama has usurped the Constitution and is bypassing congress and running this country through the presidency, you have not been paying attention.

Thinkmanvt wrote:
OK, pick one example for discussion so that I can follow what your reasoning is. Despite what some have labeled me, I really am trying to figure how I have come into disagreement with so many people.
...
I'll start at the beginning for this post and then I'll get to the others.

First off felony fraud is not just criminal, it invalidates Obama's presidency, no matter where he was born, unless he can provide the original document and that document can be verified.

At this point in the investigation there is more evidence that points to him not being born in this country than there is that he was. In fact there is not one piece of evidence that points to him being born in this country.

The links below are in order, the first one is the oldest and the last is the newest. All of the links are from this year.

Remember the president of the United States took an oath to uphold the Constitution. He is not above the law, he is sworn to uphold and breaking it is not a joke.

Here are the latest updates:
Team Arpaio: Rep. Stockman Meeting; Federal Law Violated In Obama ID Fraud Scandal
http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/06/team-arpaio-federal-law-violated-in-obama-fraud.html
Gallups: Rep. Steve Stockman Reschedules Obama ID Fraud Interview; Mike Zullo Takes Spot
http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/06/carl-gallups-rep-stockman-interview.html
Sheriff Joe Arpaio: There's No Doubt Obama Birth Certificate Forged; Rep. Stockman On Board?
http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/06/sheriff-joe-no-...
Team Arpaio: Ties To White House Now Involved; Obama BC Weapon of Mass Deception http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agqyxizoKtY&feature=player_embedded
Latest On Sheriff Joe's Obama ID Fraud Investigation - 8/2/2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MBYqPqWl8c#at=449
Full Interview: Sheriff Joe's Obama Investigator;

There Is A Lot Of Stuff Here; Birthers vs Obots
http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/09/mike-zullo-a-lot-of-stuff-here.html
Press release, Social Security administration is due to release on Monday Social Security number application for SSN 042-68-4425 of Harry Bounel which Obama is fraudulently using.
http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=433831

Thinkmanvt

OK, I understand why this is believable (without necessarily being convinced for myself). By the time it gets proved in court (if it does), he will probably long out of office. But it is not bypassing Congressional or Judicial authority. I think the classic word "usurp" is probably right. Are there felony charges filed somewhere (such as the DC court mentioned in the last link)? Or is it only a civil matter at this point?

Homestead

Civil???? are you kidding me......

They have two choices, one is to file charges with the Attorney General, Eric Holder, Eric Holder and Barrak Obama are using their offices to protect each other from their own violations and when they lie, George Sorris's main stream media swears to it. So Sheriff Arpio is not stupid enough to trust him. His reasons are clearly stated in the video and audio links.

In the case of the presidency of the United States, the Constitution provides that it is the Congress that is responsible for the validation of the presidency.

It took the citizens of Arizona three years to find someone would would handle their complains about the discrepancies in Obama's documentation. Sheriff Arpio had a duty to respond to the complaints of the citizens in his district. He felt it was a waste of time, but, he had a duty to perform. So he assigned an investigator to check it out. The investigator was, Mike Zullo, He told Mike to clear the document and get on to something else, because Sheriff Arpio didn't think there was anything to it. Never-the-less he told Mike to do it right and take it to wherever the evidence leads. Mike Zullo, also thought it was a waste of time, but, 24 hours later told Sherif Arpio, "I think we have a problem." Sheriff Arpio told him to resolve it, wherever it leads.

At the end of the initial investigation, almost two years ago, Sheriff Arpio held a news conference, where he told the American people that the birth certificate provided by Obama was a forgery.

The news media did not report it. On coldcaseposy.com you can see the video of the press release, you will not find it linked to any main stream news outlet, they did not report on it.

That did not stop the investigation, from then until now, the investigation has continued and is still continuing.

The real beak came when a forensic document examiner, court certified, with thirty years of experience, and he has done a lot of work for the very law firm that Barak Obama is using to hide his passport records and school transcripts from the public and he agreed to look at the document.

His report was devastating, not only is the document a forgery, it is the worst forgery he's seen in his career.

Since the main stream media will not report on the results of the investigation, Sheriff Arpio sent Mike Zullo to the Constitutional Convention of Law enforcement officers. There he presented his evidence to them.

That's the first video.

There is evidence that was presented at that meeting that is not available to the public, never-the-less, what the public was shown is condemning.

The end result of all this is that, instead of the news media informing the public, law enforcement is getting together with congressmen and woman one by one.

At this time there are three congressmen who are working to get a Congressional Hearing to look into the documents that Obama provided to establish who he is. His Birth Certificate and his Selective Service Card.

That is where it stands today. We the people need a Congressional Hearing so that all of the evidence and testimony can be brought out into the open where the entire public can see what is known, not just what the Obama supporters in the media want them to know.

And if Obama manages to hold off a Congressional Hearing, the investigators are working on plan B which will dump all of their investigation on to the world news, This fraud will not go on uncovered.

Plan B will cause more trouble for the country, because it will demonstrate how out of control this nation has become, but, if it is the only way to expose the fraud that is Obama, then so be it!

rhomin57 Loc: Far Northern CA.

I like what your papa told you. Mine told me that no one ever died from to much education. I would love to send you the link to my book but then I would be advertising on this forum, and I can't do that. Anyway, here goes, the title is "Power, Love, & Sound mind. My pseudo-anonymous name when publishing it was R. Parduex. I do know there is an e-book download for it as well as the book itself. It is only available through authorhouse.com . It first published in 2008.