Lowest estimate, 10,000 sects of Christianity: they must be doing something terribly wrong
Oct 30, 2015 02:37:28 #
The "wrong" of popular Christianity is all too obvious: Statements of Beliefs, Articles of faith, Creeds, doctrines, traditions, and the rest of this pharisaic trash. Christ spoke out against these things in the strongest of terms he ever used: "Hypocrites!" "Vipers!"
Oct 30, 2015 08:56:06 #
fiatlux wrote:
The "wrong" of popular Christianity is all too obvious: Statements of Beliefs, Articles of faith, Creeds, doctrines, traditions, and the rest of this pharisaic trash. Christ spoke out against these things in the strongest of terms he ever used: "Hypocrites!" "Vipers!"
I'm right along with you. I have called my share of hypocrites on this site, hypocrites. And I'm one of them.
Nov 1, 2015 22:21:48 #
fiatlux wrote:
The "wrong" of popular Christianity is all too obvious: Statements of Beliefs, Articles of faith, Creeds, doctrines, traditions, and the rest of this pharisaic trash. Christ spoke out against these things in the strongest of terms he ever used: "Hypocrites!" "Vipers!"
"What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law - you Scribes and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are!"
(Matthew 23:15)
Jesus spoke out against false religious leaders, those whose teachings contradicted His written word.
Definition: sect - A subdivision of a larger religious group
Considering the population of China, well over one billion, there are probably a million or so home churches, which are hidden "sects" of Christianity within that country alone.
There could well be 20 million sects (home churches) of Christianity, had we remained true to the New Testament model, for throughout the New Testament, there is no church building built, nor any commanded to be built.
We are told, the Holy Spirit resides within each individual believer, and Jesus said, "Wherever two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I, in their midst."
Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in my name , there am I...
Matthew 18: (Amplified Bible) 20: For wherever two or three are gathered (drawn together as My followers) in (into) My name, there I AM in the midst of them. (2.) The presence of Christ in the assemblies of His followers is assured...
But the church building is just walls.... its the people, the congregation, who are the church.
Before the paganization of the church in the fourth century by Constantine, there is no evidence of the building of church houses, rather, home-church services were held in the actual homes of believers.
Matthew 18:19: "If two of you shall agree" - Two shall constitute a Christian fellowship, or sect. The united prayers of this fellowship for any legitimate purpose shall be heard. The assurance of this is found in the fact that Christ will be present...
Nov 3, 2015 02:12:56 #
Zemirah wrote:
"What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious... (show quote)
I see it differently and I feel the parable of the Good Samaritan and other verses support me. It is not as you said: "Jesus spoke out against false religious leaders, those whose teachings contradicted His written word." It had nothing to do with teaching; it had all to do with their absence for the love of their neighbor. This is not a teaching but a state of being. They were not false religious teachers by what they taught but by who they were in spirit. Knowing God is not a course we take but meant to be the course of who we are.
As to your comments on sects, I agree...to a degree. Home churches in China does not necessarily mean that any or all or some are in disagreement with each other; that they are in different locations is not not what constitutes a sect. A sect defines itself by what it does and does not believe; no evidence of that in China as you presented it.
The problem with sects and delineating Christianity under human names and not Christ--as we do with Luther, Wesley, and Calvin--is reducing eternal truth to palatable earthly understanding. The sect thinks. "Whenever two or three of us are gathered..."
Nov 4, 2015 03:56:48 #
fiatlux wrote:
I see it differently and I feel the parable of the... (show quote)
fiatlux wrote:
They were not false religious teachers by what they taught but by who they were in spirit. Knowing God is not a course we take but meant to be the course of who we are.
To be a false teacher, or a teacher at all, must rest upon what one is teaching. One can "be" in one state or another indefinitely, but without teaching, one is not a teacher.
One can know all there is to know, but unless one teaches it, one is not a teacher.
Anyone who claims a denomination, i.e., Luther, Calvin, or Wesley, defies the Biblical admonition to refrain from doing so, for we are all in Christ, and are not to exist in factions.
1Corinthians 1:12-17
"What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."
"Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel - not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its (spiritual) power."
As who we are is the sum total of our knowledge and experience, learning and intellect, without knowledge of God's Word, His revelation of Himself to humankind, we cannot claim to know Him.
"Sects" has two definitions:
1. A subdivision of a larger religious group
2. A dissenting clique
Those million hidden sects,- secret home churches in China are all one entity in spiritual unity, but with no physical contact, for all have one invisible head, Jesus Christ, who unites them with His indwelling Spirit, and all have His written Word by which they learn to know Him.
Esoteric knowledge, pneumatic knowing must be grounded in God's written Word; without which one can be totally deceived.
It is Jesus who taught us, "For where two or three gather together as my followers, I am there among them." (Matthew 18:20 )
Those are Jesus' words, not the words of man.
Nov 4, 2015 08:23:02 #
Zemirah wrote:
To be a false teacher, or a teacher at all, must r... (show quote)
Why is it necessary to defend the Christian faith at all?
Im going to do a job performance review of the Almighty. I used to believe in God. I used to defend his ways. Now Im an atheist. I dont believe in him because his job performance rating is so poor he probably doesnt even exist at all. He could have done better, much better, if the goal was to save souls from the pits of hell. First Ill share why and then offer four other ways God could have done a much better job.
If God supposedly gave up Jesus to die on the cross for our sins, which is the greater deed by far, then why has he failed (and continues to fail) to do enough to reach nonbelievers, which represents the lesser deeds. I mean really, if God did the greater deed then why doesnt he also commit himself to doing the lesser deeds? Isnt that backassward for an intelligent being? It would be like preparing an extravagant delicious banquet, with enough food to feed all the starving people in a refugee camp, but not caring enough to send out workers to tell them about it or hiring incompetent workers he knows wont do it. If you think God is doing the lesser deeds then read onward Christian soldiers.
Why has God given the most important task of them all to Christians, according to their own theology? They are still sinners on this side of heaven, lacking complete sanctification and consequently lazy, self-absorbed, greedy, lying, lustful, fallible, ignorant, finite human beings. Most Christians who attend church services are much more interested in networking with others, finding a mate, being entertained, or learning lessons from pop-psychology on how to be a good person (because for some reason they need reminding weekly), than in reaching out to people who, according to their own theology, are headed straight for an eternal conscious torturous hell.
Compared with an all-knowing God, even the best Christian defenders are bumbling idiots and incompetent fools. Compared with an all-loving God, even the best Christian defenders are utterly self-centered and completely unconcerned that people are going to hell. Compared with an all-powerful God, even the best Christian defenders are totally lacking any energy to help people believe. Surely it stands to reason that many people have not accepted Jesus as their savior because Christian defenders lacked the motivation, the energy, and the necessary smarts to do so. Christians who lacked the smarts havent even known where to look for the needed evidence to believe, much less found it. This doesnt make any sense at all, especially if theres a flaming hell to pay for those who are not convinced to believe and be saved.
Surely a God like the one Christians believe in could have been more concerned for the lost than hiring the church to do this most important job, surely. If Christians have been incompetent with this task then God was incompetent in hiring them to do it. God should have cared for the lost more than that. As the CEO of his corporation his hiring practices are a failure. God should fire them and do the work himself.
-John W. Loftus
Nov 5, 2015 04:34:33 #
Zemirah wrote:
To be a false teacher, or a teacher at all, must r... (show quote)
Er, we seem to agree, yes?
Nov 5, 2015 04:38:41 #
Dummy Boy wrote:
b Why is it necessary to defend the Christian fai... (show quote)
The problem I have with converting--yes, converting--to the faith of atheism is how much wonder has to be suppressed and how all life is so mundane, a few paragraphs from Darwin finishing every story.
No God as described or conceived somehow disproved does not mean we are bereft of other-worldly mystery and inexplicable wonder. No facts can account for all it is to be human; it is a gestalt. Atheism unintentionally, I think, in their quest to unseat God, reduces our lives to theorems and evolutionary reductionism. Consciousness violently changes natural order.
Nov 5, 2015 07:52:36 #
fiatlux wrote:
The problem I have with converting--yes, convertin... (show quote)
I'm posting this not because I'm an atheist, I'm more of a "none". If it was adequate for Noah to believe than it's adequate for me.
Nov 7, 2015 04:03:49 #
Dummy Boy wrote:
I'm posting this not because I'm an atheist, I'm more of a "none". If it was adequate for Noah to believe than it's adequate for me.
But what say you of what I posted?
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