timmh67 Loc: USA...West Coast

At the present time, 47% of Americans are carrying the tax burden in this country. That number is shrinking due to lost jobs, a growing aging population, growing ranks of those relying on unemployment and welfare programs and lack of jobs for those coming out of school into the workforce. Who, exactly, will be paying for a healthcare program that we were lied to about its cost per year? Fewer and fewer people, meaning less and less tax revenue. That means the treatments covered by government-run healthcare will shrink, not grow. It isn’t the responsibility of government to take care of us. It’s our responsibility to take care of ourselves and each other.

Government should also not be able to use its programs to dictate to churches and faith-based initiatives what they can and can’t say, and must do. Telling churches that the must provide health care coverage that conflicts with their moral values or teachings is blatantly unconstitutional. Telling them they must accept those living in lifestyles that conflict with their teachings is also blatantly unconstitutional. Whether it‘s a******n and contraception or gay marriage, our Constitution prohibits government from telling churches what it must do or can’t talk about.

That same Constitution also allows the free expression of worship, which means that if people decide to hold a prayer service before a graduation, or town meeting, then they can. The First Amendment doesn’t say there is a “separation of church and state.” What it does say is “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” It stops government from establishing a national church, it doesn’t allow them to stop people from praying in public, in schools or anywhere else. Telling people they can’t have religion in public IS establishing a national “church” of agnosticism or atheism.

Our Constitution is and should be the be all, end all of the limits of government, not a way for government to limit its citizens. Conservatives believe in the sanctity of the family, of faith and of individuals to build their own futures. We DID build it, our lives, our businesses and this country. Believing that government knows better than the individual is asking for the end of our nation and the spirit that built it in the first place.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I could not agree more.

timmh67 Loc: USA...West Coast

Love that saying by Lincoln

user1092

I think the major problem with churches and politics is taxes.

Having a non-profit status effectively means getting a subsidy from the government -- the subsidy in the amount of taxes that should have been paid but weren't.

So if an entity gets a subsidy from the government, then the government gets a say in how that entity is run. That's simply fair. In principle, it the same as the government dictating terms to welfare recipients.

Now, if you start a church and run it as a corporation (or sole proprietorship) without applying for any kind of non-profit status and pay all the taxes, then you should be able to do or say inside that church wh**ever you want.

Donations are nothing but receipts from customers. And those customers essentially pay for place to congregate. Wh**ever they do inside is their business. As long as all taxes are paid.

Another thing is churches that post political signs and pastors that preach politics to their flock. They are actually committing a felony when they do that. (The tax code prohibits political advertising by non-profits that aren't declared to be political.)

But of course, charging a pastor with "tax evasion and faking a non-profit status" is bad publicity so the government simply pretends that everything is OK.

Still, if you guys really want to talk about the government stepping on the church's toes, then you need to acknowledge these two problems first.

You can't have it both ways.

timmh67 Loc: USA...West Coast

bahmer

I do believe from what I have heard and no I don't anything to back this up is that the democrat party is the one that brought up the bill and got it passed so that preachers could not talk about politics in their respective churches. The reason is that to many of the democrat politicians came out with "black eyes" from the various churches pastors when they preached on where they as pastors felt the various politicians stood. I have seen on several websites and heard on several radio programs as well as I believe on FOX news that this is supposed to be illegal and they are encouraging pastors to talk politics and they do it on a particular Sunday every year. I believe that they even have a legal firm or something to represent the pastors and their churches.

katz Loc: washington

Churches do more good with the money form their people than the government could ever do. I say it is ok for churches to remain non profit. The gov. is not capable of spending efficiently. Let the community take care of itself. Keep the government out of their lives. Capitalism has help more poor reach their potential than socialism ever did.

Vic Freits

but then again, remember The Swaggarts, the Bakers? they all stole the money for perversion.. TAX THESE L***HES! TAX THEM ALL!

user1092

That might be true, but it doesn't matter.

If churches are de facto getting subsidies from the government, then no one can blame the government when that same government sticks its nose into what the churches are doing.

After all, some atheist can claim that since he pays taxes and churches don't, it means he is in effect supporting the churches, by paying for the government services which the churches also consume. Therefore, he should have a say in what goes on in those churches.

From that, it follows like a similar right-side argument about a******n clinics. People who are against a******ns are upset that their tax money is being used to fund said a******ns.

Strangely, when it comes to churches, this argument is rarely raised.

Yet, when you make "life" for some entity tax free, it's the same as giving that entity 30% of its budget in the form of government subsidies.

I really don't mind my tax money going towards churches. But once they start preaching politics, this crosses the line. Why should I pay for the ability of some pastor to promote some political agenda with which I might not agree?

This is what liberals often do. They want to take my money and then they want to decide what to do with it because they believe they know best. My opinion doesn't matter, and I'm simply forced to pay. I'm against that.

Yet, this is basically the same thing, but coming from the conservative side.

If churches were made for-profit -- completely private entities, then this argument would disappear. And the churches would be free to do wh**ever they want. And the government wouldn't have much say in what goes on inside those churches.

The same with public schools and prayer. If it's public (as in either subsidies or completely funded by the government), it means the government should have the right to say what goes on in there.

I don't like the idea of a big government. But I can't stand the hypocrisy of taking public money and then telling the "public" (the government) to mind it's own business.

Pick one or the other.

katz Loc: washington

Agree. Then put them prison.

AnnMarie Loc: Madison, Wi

Nope-pastors cannot talk politics if they do not pay taxes. I contribute to Greenpeace and the Sierra club. Both do good work for the enviroment, but I cannot take those donations off my taxes, because both organizations lobby politicians and try to affect political change. If a preacher told people how to v**e, and people contributed to that church and were able to deduct those contributions, we would have government sponsering one political side or the other. Can't do it. Not ethical. If I ever heard a preacher telling people how to v**e, I would report it to the IRS and hopefully have them lose their tax exempt status

AnnMarie Loc: Madison, Wi

bahmer

You don't have to tel people how to v**e if you are a pastor. All that would be required is go back and teach the ten commandments and then list certain policies that are being disused in the political realm and then give a biblical statement on the various policies that are being discussed on both sides both good and bad. Like a******n go to thou shalt not k**l and you can even go further by reading further descriptions from the Torah about hitting a woman when she is with child etc. You could to some of the welfare plans and cover that with thou shalt not steal and go from there, You don;t have to tell the people who to v**e for all you have to do is preach on the word of God and relate that back to various policies on both sides of the spectrum. If the preacher is held in high esteem the congregants will listen and v**e accordingly. No preacher should ever have to come out and say to v**e for candidate A or B for that matter. The church if the pastor is doing his job should know right from wrong and be able to discern the difference.

rumitoid

A 501C4 tax exemption is for social welfare programs ONLY, by the Tax Code, and not as a political arm of any party. This whole IRS scandal is actually more scandalous in this way: they approved many of the Tea Party's and Progressives' tax exempt status when most should have been denied. The American Heritage Foundation blatantly disobeys the law in this regard and should seek a different status or lose its present one and be dissolved. Churches that have this status are also barred from backing any party from the pulpit, as per law, and if they cared to study, by scripture.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

You are correct, churches may not endorse or oppose candidates for elective office, pastors can preach on biblical and moral issues, such as a******n and traditional marriage, can urge the congregation to register and v**e, and can overview the positions of the candidates. Churches may distribute nonpartisan v**er guides, register v**ers, provide t***sportation to the polls, hold candidate forums, and introduce visiting candidates. Here is the problem that happened during the last e******n. Many churches that supported Obama gave out information on the Democrat position and did not supply like material on the Republicans. In fact a group of them met in DC to discuss how to motivate their church member to turn out in force to v**e for Obama.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/black-pastors-meet-in-va-to-discuss-support-for-obama-81083/

Unless you are living in a world that all people at all times do the right thing, you have to acknowledge that if there is a way around the law, lawbreakers will find it and use it!