jelun

Who would think it would happen in OKlahoma?


http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/oklahoma-court-ten-commandments-monument-32130998

I am amazed, to say the least.



Oklahoma's Supreme Court says the Ten Commandments monument at the state Capitol must be removed because it indirectly benefits the Jewish and Christian faiths in violation of the state's constitution.

The court ruled Tuesday that the Oklahoma Constitution bans using public property to benefit a religion, and said the Ten Commandments are "obviously religious in nature."

Attorney General Scott Pruitt argued that the monument is nearly identical to a Texas monument that was found constitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court. Oklahoma justices said the local monument violates Oklahoma's constitution.

Private funds were used to erect the monument in 2012. Since then, others have asked for space, including a Nevada Hindu leader, animal rights advocates, the satirical Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and a group pushing for a Satan statue.

alabuck Loc: Tennessee

----------------

The posting of the 10 Commandments is generally done to show different examples relating to laws given down through the ages. While it's known that the 10 Commandments come from our Judeao-Christian heritage, it's usually displayed with examples of ancient laws from other ancient civilizations. If they are shown, then, I feel, the 10 Commandments should as well.

Plus, the SCOTUS has okayed it. The OSC should follow its lead and allow it in Oklahoma.

jelun

I think that SCOTUS may have agreed with the Ten Commandments in courthouses. I have not seen other examples of sources from past civilizations. I haven't looked,either.
OK does not have this particular display at a courthouse, though.
It is on state house grounds. It is pretty clear that it is meant as a state acknowledgement of Judeo-Christian groups over and above others.

alabuck Loc: Tennessee

--------
In my travels, I've seen the "10 Commandments" posted along side copies of Hammurabi's Codes, The Napoleonic Codes, the Magna Carta, the Plymouth Compact, Virginia "Dale's Laws," and the Articles of Confederation, posted in courthouses, legislative office buildings, public schools, and colleges.

jelun

What a shame. I shall continue my practice of visiting only state parks and leave alternate state properties to others.
To expand on that thought, that we would honor a piece of the past in America that ensured rights for the entitled and denied the needs of those who were essentially indentured is truly sad.
Like the battle flag of the Confederacy, I think that most of those pieces of historical thought belong in museums.
Similar to the Ten Commandments so many of these based in the tilt toward a theocracy, the choice of superstition.
It should be abhorrent to people that this is unthinkingly included on government properties.

alabuck Loc: Tennessee

---------------------

These "codes of law" are posted, not to promote any religion, but to highlight the origin of codified law. That the "countries of origin" of these codes were closely aligned with religion only shows the influence that the various religions had upon the codes. That these codes have their basis in religion should come as no surprise. In fact, it should be conceded that religion, and its morality, is at the heart of these laws, which, in turn, became our civil codes.

The big issue is to apply our laws in such a way so as not to invoke any overt religious overtones. By doing so allows our " separation of church and state" to become muddied.

jelun

I think what should be conceded is that every successful society develops the same codes of conduct regardless of religion.
My objection, which I suppose I didn't make clearly enough, is that most of these supports for rights address the rights of those who are privileged and not the full society.
That is why I believe they should be archived and our progress highlighted rather than presenting them with reverence and no explanation of the flaws.

alabuck Loc: Tennessee

-----------
That's a very good argument! However, our society isn't at that point, yet. I am a Christian. But, my thinking is that even though our civil laws are based in the 10 Commandments, English Common Law, the Magna Carta, the Moasic Laws, and with influences from the Napoleonic Codes, and the Laws of Rome, that the 'religious morality' of those laws need not be applied to those citizens who don't follow the religious practices the laws were founded in.

Case in point: we had laws against sodomy in this country. Sodomy was described as anal sex between adults. The SCOTUS struck down those laws as unconstitutional because the laws were being used to "religiously discriminate' against those who practiced sodomy; be they either 2 males, 2 females or 1 male and 1 female.

The same argument is/was used against those of the LGBT community. My counter-argument is: one can't use the Christian religion's argument against homosexuality because not everyone, who is a citizen, is a Christian. For Christians to claim our religion as the legal "civil" argument against the LGBT community can't be allowed in a "civil court." If it were, then every "law" mentioned in the Bible could be used to indict anyone who goes against those laws. How, then, would we be any different than those who practice "sharia law" in their countries. I don't see a spit's worth of difference, knowing the extremism that permeates the Christian community. Too often, we act and sound no different that the Islamic extremist we claim to hate (read that, "HATE {not love,} your enemies").

But, I digress. I realize that we have a difference of opinion, here; and that's okay. In fact, I welcome our willingness to "agree to disagree." At least, we're not going to berate and denigrate one another over it. Right?

My point is: that while I understand the religious origin of these codes from these ancient societies, I've never closely associated the posting of the 10 Commandments, or any other " early examples of codified law" as trying to impose any religion on me/us. If posted in a government building, all I take it to mean is that in these buildings, where our laws are made and adjudicated and enforced, that these examples are no more than 'history lessons' to remind us of how laws have been applied to various societies, down through the ages. And, that our laws have their basis in many of the examples posted.

Our laws are different from the ANV Battle Flag. Since our laws are currently in effect, I can understand these earlier examples of law being displayed. The ANV Battle Flag has come to represent racism and defiance against our government and its laws. For those reasons, I would agree to put the flag in a museum. It need no longer be displayed on government buildings or incorporated in the flames of States.

America Only Loc: From the right hand of God