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Don't jump on AuntiE. We're all entitled to our opinions. I took it as an honor that she asked me for my opinion on this post. She's really one of the few conservatives on here that abides by 'live and let live' and respects that others have differing opinions. (Even though hers may be wrong.:XD: ) I've never read where she's resorted to insults and vulgar language; even when she and I have locked horns. Our dialogues have always been "clean," if not intense, at times. It takes a lot to get her riled. But when she gets her back up, you'd better be ready for a fight. I speak from personal experience. :shock:

If all of the conservatives AND liberals on the OPP would behave in a similar manner, our exchanges would be much more informative and far less worthless.

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Don't jump on AuntiE. We're all entitled to our opinions. I took it as an honor that she asked me for my opinion on this post. She's really one of the few conservatives on here that abides by 'live and let live' and respects that others have differing opinions. (Even though hers may be wrong.:XD: ) I've never read where she's resorted to insults and vulgar language; even when she and I have locked horns. Our dialogues have always been "clean," if not intense, at times. It takes a lot to get her riled. But when she gets her back up, you'd better be ready for a fight. I speak from personal experience. :shock:

If all of the conservatives AND liberals on the OPP would behave in a similar manner, our exchanges would be much more informative and far less worthless.

By Whom Shall We Be Led - God Or Man?
By Jeffrey T. Brown

The God of the Bible is anathema to secular l*****ts. As evidence of that, we see a troubling rise in anti-Christian and anti-Semitic bigotry from the political left, both at home and abroad. To push the faithful farther out of the mainstream, it is now chic to target Christians and Jews for verbal and physical abuse, and worse in many places, because those who deny the biblical God are in power or rising to take it. Corrupt human power and Divinity are mutually exclusive.

As a manifestation of this rising aggression toward Western religious values, atheism and secularism have become cool and trendy among those making the absurd case for the shabbiness of human nature as the planet’s preeminent force. Though the Founders foresaw the need to constrain such force via the Constitution, secularists have decided that this is their time to rise and forcibly convert the rest of us, or punish or re-educate us. Their influences and voices are becoming louder and angrier, and their attacks more confident. They are empowered by the fact that the dominance of the left in politics, the media, and entertainment means that they are largely free to do or say any offensive or vile thing they wish, since the watchdogs endorse their crimes and make it unpopular and painful for anyone who might oppose them.

The denial of the biblical God in America has been a decades-long work in progress. After all, the elimination of a Divine Being from the equation leaves deeply flawed humans as the sole arbiters of what constitutes acceptable human behavior. When one does not have to answer for his cruelties, hatred, bigotry, violence, etc., life becomes a lot more pleasant for the aggressor. Similarly, if there is no God, the treatment of His believers as mindless simpletons is more easily justified, since who else but a backwards hick would believe that something other than man, or random chance, created all that is around us, in measures of complexity and symmetry that humans still have not yet deciphered? Sure, we all get that species evolve over time to adapt, but no one has yet explained plausibly why, if we magically grew from single-celled entities in the muck, new humans don’t continue to magically “evolve” under the same conditions. We still have muck and have had eons of time. Where are the new evolving humans?

The Christian concept of a human soul is offensive to those who recoil at the thought that their existence might derive in any way from a Divine Being to whom they will one day answer. If they admitted to that, then they might also have to concede that the God from whom their soul derived has rules, and they h**e rules they didn’t write, rewrite, or make up on the spot, depending on their need to get away with something.

With God replaced by humans as nature’s biggest and best, other behaviors become easier to rationalize. If there are no rules imposed by God for human behavior, then morality is a manufactured concept and is purely optional. T***h and honor, as manifestations of morality, are artificial and therefore are silly. What matters are the ends. But with God gone, whose ends are dominant? Why, the left’s ends, of course. But don’t worry. If there were a God, they tell us, he would side with them, because they have deigned to label their oppression “moral.”

This belies another odd fallacy of secularism as the left practices it. If there is no God, from where does the virtue arise that is so often pushed as the l*****t’s justification for tyranny? From l*****ts, of course. With God out of the way, l*****ts will decide for us what is best, what crumbs they will allow us to have, what we will be allowed to do. It’s not that l*****ts don’t like moral codes being imposed upon mankind. It’s that l*****ts have figured out that it must be a flexible moral code that protects them as they coldly force their preferences on others, against their inferiors’ will.

This brings us to a fact the left simply cannot abide. Every human is endowed with free will. The concept that each life is sacred is based in part upon the fact that each is blessed with the ability to rationally weigh moral choices and, based on concepts like future consequences and a greater good, choose right from wrong. No other species can foresee, for instance, the disastrous effects of a bad moral decision extending in perpetuity. Many Christians recognize that the vehicle for this trait is the human soul, an inexplicable gift connecting us to the Divine, by which we exercise free will either to move closer to Him or move farther away.

Because each of us is endowed with this gift, no one is better or more entitled than another. As such, we are likewise endowed by God with the inherent gift of autonomy, with unalienable rights to be free from the false human gods who have denied the actual God in order to replace Him with their own presumed superiority. Deny God, and those t***hs magically vanish from the discourse, to be replaced with the argument that rights derive from man, and are gifted to man by other men. If there is no God, no soul, no Divine spark, there is no autonomy. Human power is all there is, and the rules are wh**ever other humans decide they will be for those they intend to rule. At this point, inherent rights can and will be rescinded by man.

And here we find ourselves now. God is the left’s most h**ed enemy, though they will cynically invoke God to mislead the gullible. They protest that their secularism, and their goals of dominance and control of other humans, are altruistic and are thus Godly. They ignore that their rationalization of altruism is itself an act of tyranny, in which they have made themselves and their values superior to those whom they seek to control or victimize. As they pretend to be motivated by charity and kindness toward society, they advance only those who swear obedience to the power they wield. Oaths are mere formalities, since there is no God who will hold them to account for their infidelity. Honor is foolishness, since only the accomplishment of dominance over those who disagree matters. There is no greater good, no higher call, than power over others.

Good has always warred with evil. So it is now. God and Satan are forever vying for human souls. Those who swear allegiance to human vice are increasingly feeling free to attack those who don’t. No matter. To surrender to evil is not only to lose our innate freedom, but to dishonor the Divine spark that was gifted to each of us. The farther we get from God, His rules, His virtues, His essence, the worse it becomes.

Rather than abandon God because the cool kids are all doing it, while threatening us with rescission of rights, curtailment of religious freedom, “h**e” laws, bigotry, and prejudice, we must ask His help. God has blessed America. When we have had enough of man and turn back to God, we may be worthy of true success, rather than the failure that has come to every other nation that has placed the corrupt power of man over the divinity of God.

AuntiE, as you PMed me with this post from Jeffery T. Brown, here is my reply. I've also included a post by David M. Schell.

While I can understand Mr Brown's point of view, his painting all liberals with the same brush totally goes against my understanding of the teachings of Christ. Mr. Brown is NOT what I would want as a teacher of Christianity as his "theology" appears to be completely black and white, with NO room for in between. To imply that all liberals are atheistic denies the fact that even the Jews of the time declared Christ to be a blasphemer and of satan.

Remember, too, that Israel was a theocracy, even though it was under Roman domination. The Romans allowed the Israelites to continue worshipping God as they had before the Romans conquered the country. As such, we must be careful not to confuse the religious/state practices of ancient Israel with the separation of religion and state that we have in the U.S.

Think about it for a moment. What would our country be like if Christianity were to become the "state religion?" How long would it take before we had arguments over which religion should be dominant, Protestant, Roman Catholic, or Eastern Orthodox? Let's say we decided on Protestantism, then, how long before we were arguing whether or not the dominant denomination should be Methodist, Presbyterianism, Southern Baptist, LDS, or Church of Christ? As intense as our disagreements are over politics, can you imagine how bad they'd be if we were determining the salvation of the souls of our citizenry? Now, I suppose I could get really theological and go off and quote scripture that would support my comments, but, for the reason that the battery on my iPad is at 10% and the charger is in the back bedroom, I'll not.

I will say that Mr Brown's comments are very troubling to me in that he doesn't allow for the compassion that Christ shows toward those of differing beliefs. In fact, the only times He does show His temper is when He is talking to the Pharisees (those who thought themselves better and more knowledgable of God's wants and wishes, yet failed miserably, themselves, in their thoughts and actions toward their living and speaking about God) and when He throws the money changers out of His Father's House. Mr Brown sounds very much like a Pharisee in his declarations about liberals. To him, it's his way or no way. Plus, he has the audacity to allude to the idea that he knows God's thoughts and wants. I wonder if it ever occurred to him that maybe, he's in error in his understanding of what the Bible teaches about showing our faith by loving our neighbors as ourselves. I've not ever run across anything that says to discriminate against those of differing beliefs. Along that vein, I believe the Bible says we're to leaving the judging of others to God.

Our Founding Fathers left religion out of the Constitution, except to state there would be NO State religion. They did it because 1: they wanted no one to be compelled to support a religion they didn't believe in, and 2: they wanted everyone to be free to practice the religion of their choice or not to practice any religion; if they so chose. To say that this is a "Christian nation" is not true, based on the Constitution. Look it up. Is Christianity declared to be our "state religion?" Is any religion declared to be our " state religion?" Many of our Founding Fathers were Christian and deists, as were many of the colonists. But, its a historical fact that the majority of the colonists didn't attend any church on a regular basis. Their belief systems were based on their religious convictions, and that the majority were Christian, is a good thing. But, nowhere in the Constitution is it stated as such and nowhere is it made a requirement for citizenship or to hold elected office. That there are Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and "un-declared" in Congress, today, testifies to the fact that we run our government with a blind eye toward one's religious convictions. Did you know that there are 7 L**T members in the present Congress. WOW!!! (As a side note, how many of you conservatives have heard of the Log Cabin Republicans?)

Now, if any of you want to know, I am a Christian. I'm proud to declare myself a Christian, if the subject comes up; as in this case. But, I'm NOT one to declare that someone else, who declares himself or herself a Christian, not to be one, simply because we are of different political opinions. For someone else (Mr Brown) to make that insinuation, is to me, personally, very insulting and very non-Christian in its extremely judgmental and politically motivated postulation.

It saddens me, too, that so many people think that the exclusivity of Mr Brown's article is how Christians should believe. If I were looking to choose if I'd want to become a Christian, and read this opinion of Mr Brown's, I'd decide, right then and there, that his religion isn't the one for me.

Remember, becoming and/or remaining a Christian IS a choice that we all make. It's affected by how others, who declare themselves to be Christians, act and speak, when with others of the world. If you want to be a good ambassador of your faith, you need to treat others as you'd want to be treated. (Now, where have I heard that before?)

BELOW IS THE ARTICLE BY MR. SCHELL

Unacceptable: What it’s like to be a Liberal Christian in a Sea of Conservativism

Posted on July 23, 2014 by David M Schell

People think I moved left because I wanted to compromise with the world, because I wanted to fit in better.

People think I moved left because I was deceived by the devil.

People think I moved left because I’ve been reading the Bible without the help of the Holy Spirit.

People think I moved left because I just stopped reading the Bible.

…

I accidentally go to conservative churches sometimes and find books by Ken Ham that say I’ve c*********d – with the world, the devil, wh**ever.

My dad sees me as a disappointment and is glad I’m still alive. He doesn’t say it, but I’m pretty sure he thinks that if I died today I’d be in hell. He holds out hope that God will show me the light because I’m still alive.

My Grandma calls me and says she’s heard rumors that I don’t believe in the Bible anymore.

My aunt sends me a Facebook message that her kids, my very young cousins, are praying for me. They’re worried about my soul.

When my conservative Christian friends and family ask me questions, it’s not to find out why I believe what I believe. It’s to fix me or help me realize that I’ve gone off the rails and am wrong.

Other folks have very real concerns that because I don’t share their view of the atonement, I’m not a real Christian.

I’ve gotten tired of arguing about stuff, because it’s always the same argument. It may be new to you, but I’ve had it a hundred times and it always ends the same sad way. Seriously, let’s pass on it. It’s not worth it.

No, seriously. It’s not.

I hear the same tired arguments and Bible verses over and over again. I know them all, I promise. And I have responses to all of them, but you probably won’t like or agree with my responses, so can we please pass on the high-stakes debate? I’d be happy to have a conversation with you about why I believe what I believe if you’re curious, but I don’t want to fight about it.

I’ve fought enough already.

The churches I go to are small, because evangelicalism and rock bands and the feeling that there’s something “real” going on attract more people my age than silence and liturgy and ambiguity.

People think that because I don’t think that the Bible’s “inerrancy” is a fundamental doctrine, I’m not a Christian, or at least I’m on the road toward apostasy. We’re Christians, not Biblians.

When I visit big churches, I consider myself lucky to get a phone call that “might be important” to get me out of a worship service with stifling, repetitive, boring, and theologically dumb (at best) songs.

When I visit big churches, I’m always the compromiser the pastor’s talking about.

When I visit big churches, things that inspire other people’s faith scare me to death and make me wonder why I’m in this whole Christianity thing anyway.

My dad warns me that I’m deceiving people and reminds me that God’s going to have a stricter judgment for me.

Sometimes I try to keep my political posts down so as not to aggravate my conservative friends who share clips about why Obama is the anti-Christ every five minutes. I promise you guys, you only have to put up with him for two more years. Plus, I’m not a big fan anyway – but my reasons have nothing to do with Obamacare, except that I think it didn’t go far enough.

When I comment on pro-Israel posts to mention that Gaza has a higher death count, everybody thinks I wish Gaza would just bomb Israel off the map, or that I have absolutely no idea what’s going on, or that I don’t believe in the Bible, or that I’m just deceived by the devil. It’s kind of a theme.

I see posts from Christians that are against i*****l i*********n and I get so confused how Christians who are supposed to love our neighbors can stand at the border and tell little children from war-torn countries that Jesus wants them to go away.

I go to a church in a denomination that other churches are leaving because they can’t stand the idea of being in the same denomination as churches that are allowed to perform same-sex marriage. The PCUSA has space for both sides, and while the liberal churches are okay with worshipping alongside those who disagree, the conservative churches have no space for that sort of disagreement about fundamental issues like the resurrection. …Oh wait, that was about gay marriage. Never mind. Like I said, it makes me sad.

I mention that I’m in favor of marriage e******y and people think I’m not a Christian.

I mention that I attend a Presbyterian church and everyone wonders how I can go to a church whose denomination allows (not supports) same-sex marriage.

Friends and family members who once respected me and had high hopes for my future are now praying for my eternal salvation.

I have space for my conservative brothers and sisters in Christ, but far too often for my happiness, they don’t have space for me.

…

I didn’t shift left because it made my life easier. I shifted left because I went to college and learned that the world doesn’t work in the simple logical way that conservative talk-show hosts and evangelical / fundamentalist pastors think it does. It’s complicated. Rush Limbaugh’s logic is missing large chunks of data that anyone who’d taken Sociology 101 would know.

Shifting left has made my life harder. My life would be easier if I suddenly realized that Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck were right about Jesus, and John Dominic Crossan wasn’t.

I can’t even imagine how many of my friends and relatives would breathe a sigh of relief if I threw away everything I’ve learned and suddenly “realized” that being gay is a sin, or that the Bible was absolutely true about literally everything it said and had no disagreements within it (a relatively modern view).

…

But that ain’t how I was raised.

I was raised to stand for t***h and justice even if you stand alone, and even if you look like a fool while you’re doing it.

I was raised to speak up when the world around me is cheering for injustice and evil. I was raised to disagree. I was raised to misbehave and stand against the current.

Veggietales taught me to stand up for what I believe in.

Patch the Pirate taught me to do right until the stars fall down.

I even wrote a little song about how “you gotta to dare to be different” that was so bad that nobody but Andrew will ever hear it. Ever.

…

But I also do it because it helps. I do it because every now and then, I get a message from someone saying that they read my blog all the time and feel encouraged and not-alone. I do it because sometimes I get messages saying “Hey, I read your blog and it got me thinking.”

I do it because I know people who’ve been beaten over the head with the Bible and don’t like God very much right now, and I want to give them hope that maybe they can be wh**ever they are and God will still love them and maybe they can still be Christians.

I do it because sometimes I’m one of those people.

I do it because I want people who are on the margins of Christianity and think the whole thing might just be nuts to know that things they think is crazy, I think are crazy too, and if I can be a Christian, maybe they can too.

…

One thing more.

I don’t have it nearly as hard as my L**T brothers and sisters, or as hard as my Palestinian brothers and sisters, or my immigrant brothers and sisters, or my brothers and sisters anywhere who also feel the ire of conservative Christianity. So I speak up for them.

Because I believe it’s the right thing to do.

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FYI- before you go off the deep-end over his comments about gays/LBGT, Mr Schell isn't gay. He's married to a woman and has kids. Alabuck